Should people with no turntable or reel to reel be considered audiophiles?

That people haVE NOT NOTHING BETTER TO DO.

lewm, almost all is worthless, not all.

R.

@glupson : sorry I will not.

No matters what and how many impulses goes over a period of time still are discrete. In my first post about I said that maybe the distance in between could be angstroms.

Anyway, it is enough. I already confirmed what I need it to.

R.

Dear @glupson : " action potential ", was in the information I posted.


""" Still, if anyone is keeping tabs, it is not continuous. """

More clear than clean water.

Btw, your question in the last post is exactly what I posted to that same gentleman. Not only MIT research but other top institutions/gentlemans talk about discrete electric impulse and about " all or nothin " condition and " off/onn " condition too.

@looscannon , you can named as you wish : binary or whatever the subject is that are electric impulses: undreds of impulses at very fast speed. An impulse is discrete. In no one of the several researchs out there no one speaked of non discrete impulses and please remember that for scientifics they only know no more than the 17% of the whole brain operation so it's not " healthy " that you can post with absolute certainty what you posted. Of course that due to my very high ignorance levels on the specific subject I can be wrong but exist the possibility that you can be wrong either.

Thank’s.

R.

Dear @glupson : you are rigth. I posted that way because is something I pasted but whon says that the chemical developed neurotransmitters changes the discrete electric impulses binary condition to a continuos one other that what you stated?

Many years ago and obviously way before this and other threads about I listened from some one the digital status of the human beens and everything shows to that direction.

R.

Dear @looscannon : Me neither. I pasted general information.

The issue is that all the human beens ( but sokogear. ) have an ADC at our inner ears section, this is a binary condition. This is the way the brain takes any sound we hear.

The comunication in the brain starts with those discrete electric impulses and this condition is binary too. Now the neurotransmitters comes by a chemical " condition " and I’m not talking about.

Now and I take your word as a true one: if somewhere the communication goes analog then somewhere those binary impulses goes through a DAC or something similar because the brain information through the Axon is continuous.

The trouble with all those inside the brain is the very low overall knowledge levels that the bio-neurolog or scientific gentlemans have. The very high complexity of the brain operation makes that we can’t have absolute certainty in many operation subjects down there.

Look, if you read the article I linked on how our ears works where is really complex ( and are only the ears. ) we can understand the the brain is just out of our overall operation understanding and probably could be that the subjects the neurologes know about could be not exactly as the researchs showed.

The ears have not one but at least 3 different kind of transducers along:

""" We’ see that it’s literally crammed with equalisers and dynamic compressors, including a multi‑band one. It even includes an extremely efficient filter bank, as well as a highly sophisticated analogue‑to‑digital converter. ""

Now with all those kind of transducer in the ears/brain and all those eq., compresors/limiter and the like: what in reality are we listening from the original sound signal? example: how much information are we losting from the sound of the Niagara falls due to the whole ears/brain complex process?

Btw, I don't know other persons but I'm learning a lot on this specific subject. Good.

R.

Dear @looscannon : I do not post that neurons are onn/off. This characteristic comes by the different electric discrete impulses.

""" 

Neurons communicate with each other through electrical and chemical signals,” explains Barak. “The electrical signal, or action potential, runs from the cell body area to the axon terminals, through a thin fiber called axon................. The electrical signal that runs along the axon is based on ion movement. The speed of the signal transmission is influenced by an insulating layer called myelin,” ......

“Myelin’s main purpose is to insulate the neuron’s axon,” ..... “It speeds up conductivity and the transmission of electrical impulses. Myelin promotes fast transmission of electrical signals mainly by affecting two factors: 1) increasing electrical resistance, or reducing leakage of the electrical signal and ions along the axon, “trapping” them inside the axon and 2) decreasing membrane capacitance by increasing the distance between conducting materials inside the axon (intracellular fluids) and outside of it (extracellular fluids).”

........................................................................................................

Lord Adrian Nobel Prize 1932.

""" 

What Adrian saw was that the response was a series of voltage pulses, each about one millisecond long, all of the same amplitude in a given fiber. Decades later, the development of microelectrodes enabled confirmation of Adrian’s discovery in neurons in the brain.

This provided evidence of the basic similarity and difference between brains and the later development of computers. Both computers and brains convert the real world into representations. In computers, information is coded, in the form of 1s and 0s, and as nerve impulses in brains. Both computers and brains distribute and process this represented information, and can store it as memories. However, because brains are biological and use impulses to represent information, they can change their circuitry and can self-program. Unlike computers, brains also have will, including a likely degree of free will. """

........................................................................................................................ “This study advances our understanding of how the brain reads a code made of identical electrical impulses, in order to produce a coherent perception of the world,”

.................................................................................................

 An electrical impulse is generated when a stimulus (such as sensory input) causes a rapid change in electrical charge in one part of a neuron’s membrane. This electrical impulse is one unit of neural information. An electrical impulse flowing along the length of a neuron is called a nerve impulse.

Nerve impulses proceed in just one direction within a neuron—from the dendrites, through the cell body and axon, to the axon terminals (Figure 4). In addition, neurons produce nerve impulses in an all-or-nothing way.

A single neuron fires off a jolt of electricity in response to a very specific trigger. Scientists call each jolt an action potential.

For instance, some nerve cells involved in vision fire only when the human eye sees certain colors ( all or nothing. ). Others fire when the eye detects basic shapes, or the edges of objects.

....................................................................

To many information in the subject. Extremely interesting and as I read more I understand the less.

Btw, @sokogear you only can listen digital. What you say " real " no one can listen it: remember your ADC in your inner ears? Your one and another posts makes no sense or your brain came from a cemetery.

R.

Dear @geoffkait  : """   EEG (Electroencephalogram) shows up as wavy (I.e., continuous) lines. """

that's because is the only way the printer works.

The EEG analysis try to measure the brain/neurones electrical  activity. It does not measures the barin chemical/neurotransmitter activity.

So, the study is taking the neuronal discrete impulses that are developed at high velocities as hundreds between two " points " eacg second time.
Maybe each impulse distance with the next one could be of ansgtons and the printer can't print it.

Btw, the research on MIT states that those kind of impulses are not all the same kind and has a binary characteristic/condition: onn/off, this is what we can read down there.

That's why in our inner ears we have that ADC mechanism: is the only way we can listen any kind of sound. We can't listen in the analog dominium ( that's unknowed by the human been. ) but binary one.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Dear @cd318 : Excellent thread you started. Good.

R.

@geoffkait  : Brain activity uses electric discrete impulses that inside the same brain are transformed.

MIT made an in deep research/studies on that critical subject but we have to be a neurology(physician to really understand the whole and extremely complex brain behavior.

The brain is a real " strange " even for scientifics whom says that only know around the 17% of its full operation. Go figure !

R.

"  I guess my brain is continuous.. "

Yes because your knowledge level is extremely low about. As always you are wrong and I can't understand how you can improve a little on that knowledge extremely low levels you have.

R. 

Dear @cd318 : Exist a lot of imnformation over the internet in the same subject.  Human been has a digital brain that's why the ADC in our inner ears and those electric impulses for comunication inside the brain and all over the body along chemical substances/neurotransmitters.

Btw, in what thread do you posted the link?

R.

The human been brain work through impulses, very fast impulses ( one after the next. ) but separated in between.

https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/how-ear-works#para4

R.

Dear @cleeds  : Ok, no more stupid to that kind of person even that he followed posting stupid things.

So how about ignorant? could be ok.?. I think is fine if we read this:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ignorant  or this:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/tr/s%C3%B6zl%C3%BCk/ingilizce/ignorant



"     Turntables are automatic watches, CDs, or anything stored in a file are defined by individual 1s or 0s. Not continuous.  "

unknowledgeable man that soko: his brain is not " continuous " its comunication is through impulses and he listen through an ADC ( Analog to Digital Converter. ).

So , he think a turntable is continuous. In spanish he is a " pendejo " to think that way.

R.

Dear @sokogear :  If I read or hear something stupid several times writed by the same gentleman/person my brain tells me that he lives in the stupidity land and I can tell him why he is an stupid one in an specific audio subject and for me this is not an attack.

You are posted several  posts that already show that your audio/MUSIC knowledge levels are really low and even that and many other gentlemans posts trying that you can learn you just follow in that " land ", so is up to you not to us. Think and understand what you think before post, easy.


""  They play files, not music. ""   for me this is a stupid statement and for you certainly it's not. Do it a favor and try to go-out of that " land ", every single day is a learning day. Try to use your common sense in a rigth way not in the way you showed till this moment.


R.

Dear @sokogear : " can’t deliver all the information of a continuous information flow from a cartridge that is not sampled. "

really? because the cartridge is not sampled but neither continuous .

and you insisted again:


""" Within the range of human hearing, vinyl delivers a CONTINUOUS stream of sound.

Tape/reel to reel is better - that’s what they use to capture the music in the studio and it delivers a continuous stream of sound as well. """


As all of us you need to follow learning to undeerstand your mistakes in your posts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/why-no-interest-in-reel-to-reel-if-you-re-looking-for-the-ultimate-soun/post?postid=1959719#1959719

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-very-best-sound-direct-to-disc/post?postid=1963764#1963764



"" 500 TT playing a good pressing will provide deeper, warmer sound ..""


warmer sound? deeper? ( please explain this. ), that does not exist in live MUSIC seated at near field position as is where are the recording microphones.
To understand it you only need to listen at live event SPLs to a horn/trumpet player at 3m. from him or a drum set at the same distance or a piano at 2m. and you will know that warmer is only in your imagination. That’s what you like but not the true sound of real MUSIC.

MUSIC is not sweet or heavy colored, gentle, swetness and the like. MUSIC is agresive, with brigthness, powerful, with natural colorations, fully dynamic, great rythm, up-front, full emotive, etc, etc. More like digital alternative.


I agree with what @roberttdid posted and ceratinly with @bdp24 where yes hardware is an " evil necessity " to listen MUSIC and at the end system hardware is only a tool.

The audiophile likes to listen/enjoy MUSIC it does not matters the kind of system hardware. It’s not the system hardware what defines if you or any one is an audiophile but if he likes MUSIC.
The hardware can gives you different quality sound levels on that reproduced MUSIC.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Dear @sokogear : Yes.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/es/diccionario/ingles/audiophile

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/audiophile

There are a lot more audiophiles with out TT/R2R items that the ones that own one of either those items.



Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.