Should I upgrade from REL/510 subwoofer to REL/812 subwoofer?

I am sure you have done their speaker pairing on their website. Personally, before upgrading, I would spend that $1500 figuring out how to add a second sub.

@gkelly 

Thanks for your feedback.  I will seriously consider this option.  If I’m reading between the lines, if a second sub is not practical because of my room layout, I’m inferring that I shouldn’t bother with the S/812 upgrade?

Also, I believe the S/510’s are stackable.  Would you consider stacking two 510’s a worthwhile option.  That might be a more practical option for me giving space limitations.

Thanks!

🎶

Though I don't know your room layout, I find it hard to believe that you can't add a second sub. Even if they aren't in a symmetrical placement (which, I think would actually be beneficial, as you could eliminate room nodes). 

Some might say stacking, but for me, I wouldn't- once again, you might just aggravate room nodes.

I haven't looked at the differences between the two REL models, but considering that they should only be adding to the lower frequencies, I doubt the newer model will provide any meaningful improvement, especially at the added expense.

Given the fact that you currently enjoy your current system, I wouldn't bother with the sub upgrade. That $1500 could be applied elsewhere to more discernable improvements.

My 2 cents...

Bob

Stand firm and kick your wife’s sewing machine out of the room lol. I’m sure you would get some benefit of stacking but nothing close to what you would get if you went stereo. Also noticed the white, are $1000 off. Nothing a $2.99 can of spray paint won’t fix. 

Not familiar with your subs but I went from 1 to 2 and it does make an appreciable difference. I place one on each side behind the main speakers.

@gdnrbob 

Thanks.  You got right to the point and were very helpful.

@gkelly Thanks.  Others share you suggestion too.

@johnto Thanks.  It seems everyone agrees that two are better than one.

I have two S/510 as a stereo pair (one on each side of my towers). They work great for two channel, but my room is large and I'm on a concrete floor, so they aren't quite what I want for movies (explosions, etc). 

I had a decent SVS sub on hand, so I've hooked it up in the back of the room with Bluetooth (a decent sender/receiver with little latency). It only runs when watching movies.  It works well.  You might try that if you have room. 

Yep... a second sub. While it will be good for explosions on TV... most importantly it will extend the sound stage of your two channel system. I

@ghdprentice 

Well it seems two is the magic number.

Thanks.

It is!

1+1=3 

2 subs key

Have had s/510 x 2

2 was magical compared to one

Which was still better than none

I would.

Agree that 2 subs is the way to go.  I had a similar experience with my SVS subs.  Started with one and I’m now happy with the sound with 2.

I agree with @gkelly and others.

I have a stereo pair of REL S/510’s in a room with similar size and can’t imagine needing more. There was a big difference going from one sub to the pair of S/510’s. The stereo pair really pressurizes the room much better. I think you will be very happy with the pair. Mine are placed in each L and R corner, which worked best for my room. 

I agree that adding a second sub is the best way to go, try to match the sub you currently have. You will find that this will make a very noticeable difference in your system's performance. Well worth the money most likely at twice the price. 

I have a pair of cheap dayton audio 10" subs that despite their very modest price and performance individually, when paired together provide plenty of low end support for the rest of the system, especially considering that we live in an apartment for the time being. My neighbors have been very tolerant so far. 

Agree with most. Last year , I had 1 Rel S/510 to my system and my dealer had a promotion on a second one. Space was a problem but bought it anyways and figured out the layout after. Best move I ever made. One sounds great, two sounds amazing! The coherence of the whole system was a game changer. Go for a second one, the sub can be placed elsewhere in the room as an alternative, you won’t regret it.Keep me posted, good luck.

For many years I ran a pair of Martin Logan Grotto subs in concert with with either my Snell Type A5 Reference speakers, or my Avalon Opus speakers. I put the subs aside once I acquired y Wilson Alexias. However, a few months ago I decided to add a pair of Rel 212/SX subs and the result is wonderful. It took me a few days to get the Rel's to integrate with the Wilsons, but the final result has been relatively subtle, but worthwhile. Kick drums have more emphasis,. Songs like Jennifer Warnes "Way Down Deep" really grip the listener emotionally. As I've explained to those who have come over and listened to music with my wife and me, properly set up bass is to be felt and not heard. AC/DC Thunderstruck gets almost physical.

My Dad picked up a nice used 510 from a dealer for $1400.   I’d try to find a second sub.  

that is a pretty small room. I just went thru this process in my new 16 x12 room, and rel told me to get the 500 series subs for my small room to match up with my Revel's. Way over kill, I bought 2 of their t7x subs and they are perfect for my room for 100% audio. For a smaller room than mine, I would be looking at a pair of t5x subs. 

My room is fully treated with ASC tube traps in the corners and a mix of absorption and diffuser panels for the reflection points. Good bass without hearing the subs.

510 is fine JL Fatham's are better if you can swing the 10 k for the 12's 

@drlou77  I wouldn’t. 

What are your expectations with this switch?

With an actual $600 price difference you’re paying $900 for 300 more switching amp watts and a 2" larger woofer (the radiators are both 12") and a manufacture rated 1 lower -6dB Hz all for a subjectively small 15’X12’ room. Would this dust up some potential significant other aggravation? 

I’m fairly certain there’ll be a very slight difference but a $900 improvement? That’s your consideration. 

After my experience with a top line REL the only rational for remaining in the REL -6dB sub-bass woofer Eco system is incredibly restricted location space. 

@awise1961  Were your Grotto’s positioned in the same location as the pair of 212/SX’s pictured?

I am sure this is just a pipe dream. if you could possibly legitimately see yourself someday doing a Six pack of subs. And you’re getting a good deal on the first 812…

https://rel.net/blogs/learn-and-explore/rel-six-packs?srsltid=AfmBOorCdN6orrDQsZfhkUiFLKn2phm-pDUATTzYaS573yNXiSBpY1d4

I've been using 2 older REL subs for years, and just swapped one out for a new REL Classic 99. Largish room, killer sound.

Too big for a room of that size and volume.

I went from 1 to two SVS sb1000Pro subs in a 14wx16L room with a vaulted ceiling going from 8 to 16 ft in  a well damped room  opened at one end. I sit 8 ft from speakers.The second sub added to the sound stage and imaging and filled in  the bass ie more meaty and detailed. I integrated the  two subs with my Canton 9k stand mounted 2 ways  and they play seamlessly together. If you have resources go for it.

I agree with the two sub approach, but if you are staying with just one sub there is no reason to move up in size unless your current sub does not have enough power for your needs.

It is counter intuitive, but when you add multiple subs, because of the comb filtering that occurs, which smooths out the frequency response, it also causes overall output power to be reduced. So if you are thinking of adding a second sub and you are currently operating your single sub close to its maximum output, then you may need to move up to the next larger size.

Thanks to all for your comments.  Will make a decision next week.

go for a GR research dual open baffle 12" servo sub kit it is about the best you can get for about $2K avail as kit too an easy build or they have someone who will build it tif you wish/ need it will smoke all the others mentioned considered! ck them out 
 

Open baffle subwoofer kits, particularly those from GR Research, are designed for DIY enthusiasts seeking high-quality, customizable bass reproduction. These kits utilize open baffle designs, known for their spatial sound and reduced room interaction, often incorporating servo technology for enhanced control and accuracy. 

Key aspects of open baffle subwoofer kits:

• Open Baffle Design:

  Unlike traditional sealed or ported enclosures, open baffle designs allow sound from the front and back of the driver to interact, resulting in a unique spatial sound and potentially reduced room modes. 

• Servo Technology:

  GR Research's servo subwoofers utilize a coil feedback system, where a sensor on the driver compares movement to the input signal and adjusts accordingly, resulting in fast, accurate, and articulate bass. 

• DIY Friendly:

  These kits come with all the necessary components, including drivers, crossovers, and sometimes flat-pack cabinets, allowing for a rewarding DIY experience. 

• Customization:

  Many kits offer flexibility in terms of baffle size, driver selection, and amplifier choices, allowing for fine-tuning to individual preferences and room acoustics. 

• Potential Benefits:

  Open baffle subs are often praised for their spatial sound, reduced room interaction, and ability to integrate well into various listening environments. 

• Considerations:

  Open baffle designs can have lower efficiency and may require more amplifier power than traditional designs, and some may find them more challenging to integrate into a room than a sealed or ported box. 

• Kits from GR Research:

  GR Research offers a range of open baffle subwoofer kits, including their "Double Trouble" and "Servo" series, known for their high performance and customization options. 

I realize I am talking about old equipment from 25 years ago, but I think it is still appropriate.  We had a home theater room (roughly 20x20) with Linn speakers, Marantz power, and a 3 gun Runco projector.  For the bass we used a 15in downward firing Mirage 500 watt sub.  The was on the second story with wood subfloor.  We insulated the 'hell' out of all the walls (double offset studs) and floor.  The power of this system was unbelievable, while barely hearable downstairs in the family room.  This thing rivaled any movie theater in realism and effect.  Keep in mind though that this was for movies only as we had a separate system in the family room for 2 channel.

I have a reel S812 in 12.5X13  sized room and the S812 is incredible. 
I have it set so good that I never get room overload or a flabby bass

in have considered getting  2 S510s but 2 subs in a small room would be harder to accommodate.  Put one S812 in a corner and your done 

I think you would be happy

Good luck Willy-T

I have been a REL owner for 25 years. I have used the ST series Stadium III &Storm III. They lasted 24 years of great service. I currently have 3 S812’s. They do double duty for HT and 2ch on 2 independent systems. In most cases, 2 s510’s would be better than a single s810. The blend would be better and eliminating dead spots makes a huge difference in 2ch. The s812 will play louder and lower but it could overload the room. It’s difficult to get 1 sub no matter how big to completely disappear. My room is 15 x 20. It’s not huge but 1 s810 does. not completely disappear. Unfortunately, the room nodes win with only 1. I was lucky enough to attend Sumiko’s Master class for REL and Sonus Faber 25 years ago with John Hunter. To help with the complexity of speaker & subwoofer matching  to room size, They provided a chart which had multiple speaker brands and what REL or REL’s would match to the correct room size. On Rel’s website, they still have a modernized version of this chart. I would highly recommend that you check that out. You can email or call  their customer support. They have helped me many times over the last 20+ years. Happy Listening. 

I use two 510 subs with ML ESLs 11As in a space 16 x 14 which is linked to a much bigger room through double doors (kept open). Have them on springs sitting on sound absorbant floor panels, as the room has a  suspended wood floor, with large bass trap on rear wall.. Works really well clean textured bass no boom.

@willy-t 

Thanks.  My local AV guy knows my room well.  He’ll be at my home on Thursday swapping the S/510 for a new S/812.  He agreed with your assessment.

I’ll let all know how it sounds next weekend.

Thanks for everyone’s input.

Rich