Some years ago Kevin Deal had a good price on a stash of Telefunken gold pin 6922 tubes. At the time I needed a pair for my DAC, and they worked out very well. I'm still using them today. Now I find myself with a preamp that also uses a pair, and it seems the Telefunkens are not available at this time.
I would appreciate suggestions of alternate brands that I might use for this purpose.
i have oodles of 6dj8/6922 collected from the 80’s onwards
happy to help
if you want the clear crisp clean open spotlit telefunken sound, i would suggest old stock hungary made tungsrams as most cost effective replacements (to my ear, they sound pretty much identical to tele’s), old stock siemens a frames are very close... then there more costly adzams, mazda and dutch amperexes which have a little more midrange warmth but same open sweet treble (i have posted more info on this subject over on audiocircle, same handle)
The best 6922 I've heard are the Amperex D Getter from the late 50s early 60s. I prefer them to the 7308. I used them both in my MHDT Orchid Dac and the Decware SE84UFO.
Tungsrams are nice. NOS Teslas are also nice, but seem to have gotten expensive. I think white label Amperex, either Herleen Holland or USA, are the best option. I have at least 60 of them. :~)
I like the Telefunken's, although they are getting harder to find, and pretty spendy for matched pairs. I think the Siemens comes pretty close, based largely on the type of music you listen to. Brent Jesse is an excellent tube guy. Tube Depot just had the Siemens on sale for $149. I have not dealt with them before, but that's a decent price for a high quality NOS 6922 these days.
I am glad I bought 2 extra Telefunken's 2 extra Siemens when I had the chance a couple of years ago. They just keep getting more expensive.
@roxy54 How is the preamp sounding to you, and what more do you want out of it? If you're looking for a Telefunken-like sound with an added clean sparkle on top, the Amperex JAN 7308 with white lettering is pretty close.
I have a AN UK DAC2.1x Sig. I’ve used 6922 Tele gold pins, 6922 Amperex Holland PQ, and 7308 Amperex/Philips SQ.
I doubt you’ll find any true NOS Telefunken. I agree with those who suggested Siemens for sonics similar to Tele’s although they don’t have that slam. You can go the used route and only buy from vendors who publish test results. I’ve had good luck with some Ebay vendors. The days of finding premium NOS tubes for a decent price are over.
Last month I bought a pair of 6922 Amperex D-getters from Brent for $325. That’s about $100 more than a year ago. And I wasn't able to find a pair of 7308's.
OK, the AN uses them in a gain stage (interesting DAC/power supply that I recall researching @ some point).
So, assuming that they still test well I would definitely try them out in the preamp as they are fairly durable tubes.
This said, they (and other less on the warm side 6922 types) seem to be universally preferred in the AN DAC.
Canary Audio is a big mystery to me (and they are close by as I live in West Hollywood, CA).
Tried to research/Google their products in the past and always came up with close to zip as far as user comments go.
*****What 6922's are in the Canary now and what what sonic changes would you like to make?*****
Regardless, in the meantime I would pick up a pair of the inexpensive tubes I linked just to have a spare pair on hand that may actually sound quite good.
Old production Mullard 6922 types are a crapshoot unless you know exactly what version you want as they can differ quite a bit in sound.
On the other hand old production Amperex/Philips Euro are quite consistent, overall, as far as the sound of their 6922 production goes.
The detail/bass increases a bit when going up the ladder ECC88/E88CC/E188CC, but they all sound (again) similar.
Suggest you go to the Brent Jessee (sp?) site and look @ his inventory.
Last I looked he had good (to me) Amperex Holland and USA 6922 types in the $120-$220 range for a matched pair.
He also has cream of the crop versions, but in my experience the difference in sonics has been not been that noticeable (big of a deal) in the gear I've used.
Sooo many to choose…after rolling many tubes the ones that sounded best to me in my DAC are listed below. Brent Jesse is a good source but some what pricey. Deals can be found on EBAY from reputable sellers by experienced buyers.
Mario Miniwatt (France Philips) E188CC(7308) - rare and pricey
Valvo Red Label E188CC (Amperex Holland)- also rare and pricey
Amperex ECC88 Bugle Boy 60’s - to my surprise these sound really close to above tubes. Best buy and readily available. Best value that I have come across in my mind.
Has the New Pre Amp' been supplied with a stock 6922?
Have you tried your still used Telefunken tubes in the New Pre Amp' ?
My experience with swapping out ECC88 and 6922, is that a Valve Brand and Period of Production can vary quite noticeably in their sonic when used on a particular device and the demonstrations I have been present at, has shown the findings of Tube Rolling will vary across devices. Hence I use Two Different Brands from early 60's production on a DAC and Phonostage.
Either of Interest or not, I recently learned a adaptor socket can be used to allow for a 6SN7 to be used as an alternative Tube.
When my system is once more fully assembled, I intend on trying this out as I have access to many versions of these tubes.
Many nice tubes in 6DJ8 family, especially ones made between 57-65 for a great tone and some made till 73.
6922 and 7308 would last longer but that would depend also of how hard the circuit pushes them. Some ECC88 will sound better than E88CC or E188CC but with a shorter life span. Please note that due to construction all these tubes can go noisy, so sometimes are a waste of money, even buying from a good source.
Usual suspects for good sound but expensive are Siemens, Amperex (Holland and USA), Teles (though i find them a bit overrated) and French made tubes like Dario and RT. Better value ones are Teslas early 60’s and red Tungsrams. In my experience, after trying most of them, the ones i would look for are:
Holland D getters, Holland (62-65), Holland orange o getter (67-68), Siemens Cca or E88CC(early), Siemens E188CC A frames, Amperex USA up to 65, and Mullard CV4293.
My earlier comments as @xenolithposted have not changed since i find Voskhods of that era (75-79) to be the best all rounder, with still better pricing, nothing missing, not hifi terms for that tube, simply fit and forget. They last long, are linear in presentation, have great bass and flow, a big picture, generate less heat at glass envelope, are quiet and rarely go microphonic. Much better than EV versions.
Last note, most modern tube units are manufactured with current Russian tubes in mind, so using the best alternative would be a good thing.
If you're interest is in keeping the very clear, uncolored presentation, that Tele's typically produce; you'd best retain either them or Siemens.
Personally: even the very slight increase in, "warmth" of the early 60's Amperex Navy 6922, dissuaded me from choosing it over the early 60's, grey shield, Siemens CCa.
The (same generation/construction) gold pin, Siemens E88CC, E188CC, etc, has the same sonic signature as your Tele, or my CCa.
I currently have Two early 60's Siemens gold pin, grey shield E88CCs, two E188CCs and two CCas in my BAT VK-D5 and am enjoying the same very clean, uncolored sound as with the six CCa Siemens, I removed to compare. Those are now my backups.
There's a reason for their popularity and (now) their scarcity.
I've bought tubes from the following eBay purveyor, a number of times and found him knowledgeable, honest and dependable:
He has a few NOS Teles and Siemens, of the 6922/E88CC family, toward the bottom of the second page.
Regarding the Russian tubes that became so popular: It was obvious to me, a decade back, the cream of the crop were confined to just a very few years, the supply was largely exhausted and I MISSED IT. Thus: no opinion.
btw: Whatever level of Bass resides in your media (down to the Stygian); the early Siemens iterations will convey it, unhindered and not editorialized, in all it’s power/glory.
I’m using Amperex 6922’s with the gold pins from the early sixties in my preamp and am very happy with the sound. The only other advice I can give is don’t buy the cheapest EH tubes. They came with the unit when I bought it and were full and boring sounding.
I collected a lot of 6922’s in the late ’90’s. The best were all specially selected by HP (Hewlett-Packard) for use in their test equipment, the stuff which put men on the moon. Tales from that era were of co-op students testing boxes of 144 factory fresh tubes, passing 2 or 3, and tossing the rest in a dumpster.
That might be why they were so expensive, even back in the day.
IME, the best of the best were H/P selected Telefunken tubes - I think I bought the last sleeve of 5 (with BOTH H/P and Telefunken seals) for $500. 1962 vintage, IIRC. They sounded absolutely silent and absolutely grainless. A testament to the best tubes ever made.
Russian reflectors I have found work well in my canary ca 160 amps. Also I really like them in my sonic frontier dac3. Gold lion new production are the best of the new made tubes but I prefer the nose tubes. I had a pair of valvo 6922 that I found wonderful they had tube beauty and top to bottom balance. The gold pin amperex are all right fi d them a bit rolled off in the highs. Something I found the other day that I would like to try is some adapters and some new old stock western electric tubes that were the same as 6922 but a different pin out. They were made for the usn. Lol I have not come to the point where I want to let the moths out of my wallet to buy a matched quad. Regards
I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread for the wealth of information. There is so much to discover about the performance nuances of the different brands, and I will use this information in my search. Thanks in particular to rodman99999 and dekay.
I also thought that the idea about the adaptor for the Western Electric tube was fascinating. I never heard of that before.
I'm very pleased with the pair of gold pin Amperex USN-CEP 7308s with large halo getters from early to mid 60s in my ModWright Elyse DAC. Very quiet and nice top end. Until this past April when I bought them, I had been gone through MANY different makes/models in this family and that's where my journey ended. I wish you the best in your search!
There are a few tubes that are recommended time after time in this thread. Some are afailable from sellers in remote countries. How much do we need to worry about fakes? thanks
There are a few tubes that are recommended time after time in this thread. Some are afailable from sellers in remote countries. How much do we need to worry about fakes? thanks
see brent jessee’s page re 6dj8 fake telefunkens with chinese counterfeit silkscreening, informative... bottom line if you know these tubes, key indicators of their construction that identifies them, really convincing fakes won’t get by a cursory look by an experienced tube guy
what IS the worry is used tubes, with lots of hours, severe imbalance across the internal dual triodes, and noise/microphonics... let’s face it, these tubes are no longer made for 20-30-40 years now, folks test 'em, use em, pick the good quiet balanced ones and leave em in to make music, set aside the noisy crappy ones, so what remains available today are more of the poor ones that fail on one or more of the above attributes ... unless they are coming out of a reputable seller that tests on all these key parameters or from an old hand who has had gems stashed away for half a lifetime...
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