Rotel RA-1592 MK II or something else to deliver around 200W to B&W towers around $3000?

Perreaux 2150B - 340wpc/8ohms, 680wpc/4ohms and 920wpc/2ohms! Can be found on eBay for under $1K! I have one! I turned down a nice deal on a big Levinson amp to keep the Perreaux! 

Who keeps pushing Rotel amps to mate with B&W speakers? I'm guessing the dealers.

B&W has extended highs. Rotel also has a lot of high-end energy, they do not make a good match.
There was a thread posted last week, the member asked for help because the highs in his system made it uncomfortable to listen to. He was using Rotel and B&W.

Probably Parasound Hint integrated would take care of all your needs.

Or a used Hegel integrated.

If you're willing to buy used, you should focus on that. I'd look at Bryston, high slew rate, low distortion. You can get separates for less than $3k used. Rotel is okay, but mine became noisy after awhile. So many good amps out there, good luck. I'm using a modified Sony V-Fet, but those are not for everyone, that's for sure! (Parts are virtually nonexistent)

You will get a lot of responses from non B&W owners who guess at an optimal pairing.  I have two pairs of B&W, N802’s and Concept 90’s.  The W4S ST500 produces deep controlled bass and tames the inherent brightness in the top end that many amps fail to do.  I have always paired the ST500 with a tube preamp, either a VAC Renaissance or Manley Shrimp.  I believe that a tubed preamp is part of the excellent resulting sound.  Since I no longer own a SS preamp, I cannot confirm that.
Wyred for Sound also makes an integrated amp which I have no experience with.

Musical Fidelity M6si is a very good option to consider.  Power and stable.  Non-fatiguing.

Won't the tone controls on something like the RA-1592 be able to tame the highs?

No to Rotel.  Hegel or Parasound.  There’s a Hegel H190 on US AudioMart for $2900 that’d probably be great.  Best of luck. 

+1 on the Hegel or if you dont have Switching-Phobia you could try this guy. https://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-strata/Strata on audiogon here for $2.3K
Or do a $1.5K Tube pre and a Class D amp.

Wyred4Sound pre & amp combo might also be a solution.

I also agree on the Parasound Hint integrated---but maybe look at the Parasound preamp and a nice class D for power (Wyred 4 Sound, PS Audio...) Good luck!

Rogue Hydra (Tube/ClassD) over on USAudiomart.  Pair that with a $1K pre. Could also be a plausible option.

Rotel and B&W collaborate with each other and have for years.  I'm using a Michi S5 to push my Magnapan 3.7is and they pair together extremely well.

Krell, Parasound or Crown 

If you are ok with used I would suggest Classe or Parasound.  I have the 802d paired with Classe CA-300.  You can get the 2300 for less than $3k for sure.

Rotel and B&W collaborate with each other and have for years. I'm using a Michi S5 to push my Magnapan 3.7is and they pair together extremely well.

Why is there no love for the Rotel pairing?  I literally just watched a review of the RA-1572 MK II and the reviewer said it wasn't a good pairing for the B&Ws tested (600 series).

Bryston. They have a fantastic deal on pre-owned and reconditioned: five years' warrantee (or sometimes more). And that's a Bryston warrantee, which is the best in the business. Just contact the factory for factory reconditioned quality at very reasonable prices.

I owned two Bryston amps before I made my own. Now I have only one, bought factory reconditioned, to power the subs in my HT, because nobody builds stable, bullet-proof equipment like Bryston.

Thoughts on the Peachtree Nova 300?

Rogue Sphinx v3. 👍🏻👍🏻

Rotel is under the same ownership umbrella as b&w so i can understand how you would think that is the best combination for the money but you can do better for 3k for sure. I would try a good used model to save money and get superior sound.

I think you would be fine with it.  Para sound HINT might be another good choice.

I wrote a review on the RA1592... I have one on my sonus faber olympica 3 and I don’t have any issue.

I wrote a review on the RA1592... I have one on my sonus faber olympica 3 and I don’t have any issue.

That's an entirely different setup. You have the warmth of the SF's. They are polar opposites from B&W.

I haven’t heard the Rotel 1592, it gets very good reviews. I liked my Rotel receiver which I owned years ago.
I think B&W’s would be the problem in this matchup. They’re very revealing and much of that is from the tweeter. IME, highs are extended and there’s a lot of energy in the top-end. I don’t know where the highs to mids are crossed over, but much of the presentation is heard through a very crisp, detailed tweeter.

From The Absolute Sound:
   Significantly, the Rotel’s top-end was fluid; the dark cast of treble shading that I encountered years ago has been largely ameliorated. Here the top end was more immediate, and lent the presentation liveliness, along with transient sparkle and speed.

Pairing an amp with a speaker that both present "liveliness with sparkle and speed" in the highs doesn’t make a very balanced presentation.

B&Was have very clear and prominent highs. When paired with a Rotel which has a similar sound profile it can start to cause pretty significant ear fatigue. I agree with people that have said tubes would be a good match but you're unlikely to get the amount of power you're looking for. I'd also say. Not certain you need that much power to make those "sing". If you're patient cou should be able to find a rogue rp-1 for about 1k and a stereo 100 for about 2k or a little more. Alternatively, you could get a rogue cronus magnum which is 100wpc or so fo under 2k used. If you wanted to go as I'd stick with hegel or parasound as others have Saud.

What you really need to make those speakers sound good is current more than a ton of wattage. If the Amp has big power transformers and can deliver a lot of current on demand you'll get the full bodied sound you're looking for.

I am not a fan of Rotel.  If they still use an internal fuse at the wrong electrical balance the fuse kept blowing. I tossed the unit.  The Parasound https://parasound.com/hint6.php HINT Halo 6 is pairing well with older Polks.  I would look at the Parasound line instead.  Not as pricey as Macintosh normally but good performance.

The new MK2 models were voiced by “the legendary Marantz golden-ear, Ken Ishiwata” before his passing, so any carryover from prior tin-eared Rotels may be unwarranted. Also consider the OP’s musical tastes. What I might prefer for my sound balance might be very different from his. I judge speakers by acoustic instruments exclusively, then enjoy recordings of rock and fusion as much as possible given the vagaries of their production values. 

Run don’t walk to AA classifieds. Someone is selling his Audio Alchemy DDP-1/PS 5 and DPA 1. I love my DDP-1 + PS5 at a fantastic price
You can sell you current preamp. It's that good!

hth

As an electrical engineer, when i buy used i always purchase well built products. 

Parasound and McIntosh are just a couple of well built products with quality components and good customer support. 

If you have an issue with your product it makes a difference when it comes time to get it repaired or simply to get it recapped. 

Some high end small production products can be expensive to repair due to lack of company support or difficulty to repair. 

Just something to keep in mind when purchasing used. 

Parasound and McIntosh are just a couple of well built products with quality components and good customer support.

I had dismissed McIntosh as being beyond my budget. Is there a unit that might fit in my budget and deliver the full power I’m looking for used?

I use a Rotel RB-1590 with 702 s2's that although different than what you are pairing them with I believe similar enough to share my experience.  If your speakers are like mine they love the juice, the more they get the better they sound in every way, I don't find the pairing in anyway problematic, quite the opposite.  For the money I have invested the return has been spectacular.  Good Luck with your search, the RA-1592, as well as the RMB-1585 I would think would be great choices for your system, the benefit of the RMB are the cooling fans and newer technology, I also think the Michi S5 would be even better, just my .02, Enjoy !  :  )

Hello there.
     For  your budget between 1500 and $3000. An older Krell amp KAV 250 a, krell KSA  class A.  If you can find a Jeff  Rowland 125 that would be an excellent Choice .should be in that price range  too. Just my thoughts. Good luck

The Rotel RA-1592 Mk ll would be great with your B&Ws and it is a good value. Rotel gear is well built and their amps have excellent power supplies; An area other manufacturers of gear in Rotel’s price range skimp on IMO.
I’ve really enjoyed my Rotel RB-1590 with my B&W 683 S2. Good luck in your amp search.

Cheers,

Scott

There are a set of  Wyred4Sound - SX-1000 monoblocks (ICEpower) over on usaudiomart for $1200.  Pair those with a $1000 used  Rogue RP-1 and a set of Mullard  matched tubes and your flying high.  Do some searches on here about users who combine Tube pre and class D amplification.

Again... Bryston, very good amps, great sound, slew rate of 60v/µs, can buy used with warranty from factory, 5 year warranty. You can do used separates for less than $3k. You really should listen to them!

@yukispier

capping myself at $3k new or used

I was thinking that going integrated

A must have is digital connectivity for hi-res streaming.

I’m having difficulty nailing down your requirements.

Are you asking for an amp or an integrated amp? If amp, what’s your preamp?

Do you have a DAC and/or streamer, or is it budgeted in the $3k?

No direct experience but Peachtree seems good for the $, but you can do better sonically within your budget such as a Hegel.

Are you asking for an amp or an integrated amp? If amp, what’s your preamp?

Do you have a DAC and/or streamer, or is it budgeted in the $3k?

I apologize for the confusion here. I currently have the B&Ws but nothing else.

When I started the thread I thought that buying something like the Rotel 1592 was the way to go but now I’m more sold on building a better system with separates for the same price.

I’m now leaning more towards putting most of the budget into a very good power amp and getting a pre & dac that will be OK for now but upgrading those components in the next year or so.

Budget is still hovering around 3K (in the process of purchasing a new home) but it could be expanded in the next few weeks if some other anticipated expenses work out to less than anticipated.

Michi is Rotel’s high end brand. If I had the cash I would have went with the M8 monoblocks but alas I too am building a new home.

Https://Rotel.com/michi

Yuki, I think that is an excellent tactic. For lots of reasons. Concentrate on getting the big stuff right. Don't spend more than a few bucks on cables until you have the big stuff where you want it. Cables are the poorest bang for buck, IMO. YMMV

As for amps, I know the Bryston SST series, very nice, and just a little mellow. I understand that the SST2 is a little bright, which may be the last thing you need with your speakers. SST3 is reputed to be neutral - but I haven't heard either of the latter series, so consult the factory if you are interested. 

Good luck! And welcome.

Well I have own some of the equipment you are looking at. 


I owned a B&W 703s and a Rotel 1072 amp. I also owned a Peach Tree Deco, and wyred4sound equipment… and McIntosh. My comments are all very general as it has been a long time and my system changed between some of these pieces. 


The B&W and Rotel combination wore my ears out. It was fine when I had it as I did not know any better. The highs had a lot of hash in them and the upper mids were peaky. Bass was fine.



The Peach Tree had poor quality and the right to left balance would change 1-1.5db from the 9 o’clock to 12 o’clock position on the volume. I returned it. I have no idea if this has been fixed now. It’s sound fine but nothing special. The tube buffer seemed to do almost nothing.
Wyred4sound is a good budget option and will drive them fine but again nothing amazing but more than good enough.
The best I have heard B&W sound is on McIntosh. It is a good combination. The Mac takes the edge out of the B&Ws. At least the ones with autoformers. Maybe look on the used market but it will push your budget for sure.



803d3 on mc611 monos with tube pre was good and the least edgy I have heard the 803d3 sound. 805d3 on the MC275 was good (tamed the highs). The 805s on the MA7200 was ok (little bright). Again all very expensive but might related to lower end B&W and lower end Mac or not, not sure. I personally own a MC462 (450 watt Mac) but never used it on my B&Ws.



I think the Musical Fidelity suggested above is a good option. An often over looked amazing bang for the buck brand.

There are a couple of early 90's solid state McIntosh power amps listed for prices that I could stomach.  There is an MC7150 for $1650.  There is an MC7200 for $2200.

Thoughts on these?

Lots of good options out there.

As much as I like their amps, I think McIntosh are over priced and capitalize on legacy reputation and aesthetics. But if $ is no (significant) object, then I may have them in my system too.

While not inexpensive, I have grown very fond of Plinius products … so much that I repurchased an 8200MkII integrated and sent off to be completely refreshed. This one in particular seems to combine the strengths of tubes and SS while mitigating each ones downsides. This one will never leave again. And well within your budget. Also a used Hautonga would fit. I think the sound is just a bit more clinical than the 8200, but offers the convenience of more remote control functions.

One says Bryston is mellow, it's accurate. Some amps are bright to give the appearance of better high frequency response, listen closely.

 @yukispier

I currently have the B&Ws but nothing else.

Budget is still hovering around 3K... but it could be expanded in the next few weeks

So you need at minimum these components:
1) Preamp
2) Amp
3) Streamer
4) DAC
5) Cabling
6) Audio rack?
the 3K is not much to work with.

....I’m more sold on building a better system with separates for the same price.

I think you have this backwards.  While separates perform better than integrates, integrates have significant cost savings by reduction in casework and cabling though at the expense of a little performance - it's a tradeoff.  For the best price/performance, integrates are the better value especially if you are on a limited budget.

... putting most of the budget into a very good power amp and getting a pre & dac that will be OK for now but upgrading those components in the next year or so.

In high-end audio, the each component in the entire audio chain matters.  If you attached a quality amp to mediocre upstream components you'll get mediocre sound.

A better solution would be to build a system you can enjoy now but with the flexibility for future changes/upgrades.  

I like the Elac Alchemy:
*2.5k DDP-2 Preamplifier/DAC/Streaming End-Point and maybe the
*1.5k DPA-2 Stereo/Mono Amplifier
designed by Peter Madnick of Constellation Audio fame.  Plenty of positive Audio Alchemy reviews and this next generation should be better.  You can save more by buying used, and you can upgrade individual components later.  

There are a couple of early 90's solid state McIntosh power amps l

The technology for high-end audio is constantly progressing so generally speaking performance today is better than what has come before.  This includes the sonics of amplifiers.  Trying to save $ by buying vintage usually comes with a significant reduction in sound quality vs newer designs for the same $.  When buying vintage electronics, make sure you know what you are getting vs other alternatives.

“A better solution would be to build a system you can enjoy now but with the flexibility for future changes/upgrades.”

I thought that is the direction I am headed getting a proper amp with a midish level pre/dac combo.  I have everything else covered besides some decent speaker cables.  I think that the system will still be enjoyable to listen to without a $4000 preamp while I’m saving up for the upgrade.

My set-up: Simple 5.1 system.  B&W 805 D3's for the fronts, 700 series HTM71 S2 for a center, and a pair of 705 S2's for the rears.  Marantz SR6015 receiver.  I use a Rotel RMB-1585, a 5 x 200W multichannel amp to bi-amp the 805s and power the HTM71 center channel, with the Marantz powering the rear 705 S2's.  To answer your question, the Rotel amp is magic.  Rotel would power your speakers beautifully.  I don't recommend any Rotel processor however as I have had a lot of problems with an RAP-1580 in the past.  

+1 @kennyc 

I also think an integrated is the best bang for the buck in this price range. Either take one with a dac and buy a better dac later or buy a dac now.

i had different B&W speakers paired with a Rotel integrated. Was very happy. Now, 805s with a Hegel. I discovered detail I did not hear before.
I recommend Hegel integrated. Worth every penny makes choices eaiser. You should be able to find H390 when this craziness with supply stops for under 4k. I know it is more than you want to pay but, hey, the price of happiness is a bit higher. Hegel also has a great resale value. Until that time, get a used Rotel and enjoy it. 

There are three used/demo, probably trades,  Rotel amps for sale on the West Palm Beach Audio Advisors website.   There is a lot of other stuff, too, from Audio Research, Mark Levinson, as well as a few of which are unfamiliar to to me.  200 watts or 100 with huge power supplies would work well for your apparent needs.  Chris is a great guy, and an older fellow seems to know a lot of history of audiophilia, according to Chris.

@yukispier

I thought that is the direction I am headed getting a proper amp with a midish level pre/dac combo.

Ummm, there’s not really a “midish” level pre/dac. It’s sonically better to get a separate DAC but good a audiophile (above box store sonic quality) starts around $2k like Mytek and Yggy - YMMV. Including a dac w a preamp is an economic way to save $ on casework (less boxes) and cables which would be beneficial considering your limited 3k budget

I think that the system will still be enjoyable to listen to without a $4000 preamp while I’m saving up for the upgrade.

$4k preamp? - I’m confused. I thought your entire budget was $3k now so I was trying to stretch it to get you the best sonics per $ so you can enjoy your system “now” w flexibility for future upgrades. If your budget is more then that’s a different strategy. 

+1 Hegel - consistent positive reviews

Odyssey Audio amplifiers $1-3k - one of the best bang for buck amplifiers. Alon Wolf of Magico (one of the top technologically advanced speaker designers/manufacturers today) likes and sometimes uses them.