yyzsantabarbara
Thank You for posting this link. It is criminal in the way those masters were stored. There never should have been that much music in one location? Happy Listening!
Recordings by Elton John, Nirvana and Thousands More Lost in Fire
@yyzsantabarbara Thanks for the link. The embedded article of the full story goes into much more detail. It appears that the 3 music groups have at least partially turned to Iron Mountain for storage today. Unbelievable the masters that were lost. |
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Just reading the start of the thread, re the NYT. If you want to hear how the rag operates firsthand, from the editor, there is a film or almost documentary -to be seen. It’s called ’The American Ruling Class’. (wiki entry) It’s a mocukmentary, a dramatization...but the interviews and responses are real. One of the interviews is with the editorial board of the NYT. When directly asked if they print fake news, they directly state that they go with the flow of the desires of the contributors re the advertisers and others of similar ilk. Arthur states things flat out. He pulls no punches, covers nothing up. He is general in his comments but is very frank. Finding this film to watch, for free, on the web, is very difficult. Each day it is harder and harder to find. Let me guess why... One of those films everyone should see, yet you can’t find it anywhere.... |
At the risk of prying a can of worms open even farther: For those who are justifiably annoyed by the political rants permeating even what is supposed to be a genteel forum for the exchange of esoteric info about audio, and - for that matter - maybe especially for those doing the ranting, this book - due out soon - may be of interest. https://www.orbooks.com/catalog/hate-inc/ Hate Inc. WHY TODAY’S MEDIA MAKES US DESPISE ONE ANOTHER by MATT TAIBBI ”... journalist Matt Taibbi provides an insider’s guide to the variety of ways today’s mainstream media tells us lies. Part tirade, part confessional, it reveals that what most people think of as ‘the news’ is, in fact, a twisted wing of the entertainment business. ... In the Internet age, the press have mastered the art of monetizing anger, paranoia, and distrust.” He goes after the entire spectrum, not just the left or the right. |
And here I was, thinking that those "vaults" were dug deep into some mountain with constant temperature, far from any traffic, heavily guarded, under seven locks, behind fireproof doors. Well, the way the record companies go on about their precious "crown jewels" you'd think that, right. Apparently not so much. Such a shame they were so callous. |
Thanks to the OP for sharing the link to the article about this colossal tragedy in the history of recorded music. I am personally very dismayed at the cavalier attitude that was afforded to these heirloom treasures. It’s also a sad statement on the lack of integrity in certain members here who choose to grandstand politics whilst they should be redirecting their negative energy to lobbying the industry to practice due diligence instead. |
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Absolutely, this is a worldwide loss, with amazing masters from musicians spanning the globe lost. My prior comment did not mean to imply otherwise, only to address the intrusion of politics into a music site in a way that might promote a bit of understanding given the likely sources of those comments. I am sorry for not being clearer. Music is a universal language. |
It is truly distressing that when we learn that approximately a half million irreplaceable masters of some of the greatest and often groundbreaking music of the greatest artists of the 20th Century, predominantly American artists, were lost to a fire, that some on this site of supposed audiophiles would rather turn this into a political debate rather than mourn the loss of these masters and use their energy constructively to consider ways that we could band together to encourage better protections for the other priceless masters still out there. Whatever happened to 'we the people'? Do the views of only one camp and their political agenda matter? Or do we all inhabit and love this land, our Constitution and the Bill of Rights? When supposed adults act like petulant 2 year olds, no worse, we have lost much more than priceless masters, we have lost the very basis of these United States of America. If even 'audiophiles' can gloat over the burning of music, I can only imagine the festivities that will take place when books and libraries are set ablaze. |
I Agree with the 3 above. The loss of the master tapes is the tragedy. Some truly amazing artists and their recordings of a piece of time that will never be heard again. I have not posted a lot but it seams sometimes it is difficult for people to stay on point. I am saddened by the tragic loss of the music. Plus any future use of these master tapes to further reinforce our commitment to the accurate reproduction of their sound. Which is what we audiophiles all about. |
nonoise: " Has the Russian troll farm infiltrated Audiogon? 😮1-I think they've always been here. 2-Does the pope wear a funny hat?" Hello nonoise, I always thought it was 'Does the pope poop in the woods?' Boy, I'm so embarrassed, I've been saying it wrong for the last 40 years. Oh well, Tim |
Read the article yesterday via internet. Tried to buy a record mentioned-all sold out. Imho, the advent of the CD changed a lot of the music business models. Some older artist's catalogues became gold, some not so much. We will never know the complete loss. Agree with Dramatictenor, I don't care about your politics, just the Music. |
I think film preservation is somewhat ahead of the efforts of the music industry. Googling film preservation shows a long standing effort. Celluloid is notorious for it's degradation and I recall temperature controlled vaults being built a long time ago, along with archival steps. All the best, Nonoise |
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@dramatictenor Thank you. Well said. I’m tired of the political drivel that has shown up on Audiogon. If I want that kind of soapbox I can watch MSNBC, FoxNews or any of the hundred “news” channels. I come here to get away from that and if this becomes the norm myself and others like me will have to find a more relevant forum. |
Thanks for sharing the article about the lost music. A real cultural loss—I suppose those of us who have vinyls of those recordings do have an important artifact. Unfortunately, with all of the unreleased music, we will never know what was lost and how much beauty disappeared from the world on that day. For those who went political, I offer you a few questions to ponder on your own dime and your own time: what benefit, psychic or otherwise (certainty, adrenaline release, proud anger), do you receive from forcing a story about lost music into your political worldview? And what costs (feelings of anger, self-righteousness, agita) do you incur? On balance, is your benefit greater than your cost? And why do you think It is acceptable behavior to force the rest of us to take part in your own internal drama? Please understand-politics matter. Yet when I want political analysis, I don’t turn to A-gon and I am deeply disinterested in opinions that show up here, left, right or center. I am here for things music and the devices that reproduce it. When things turn political, it means the purpose of this forum is debased, while the political discussions on a music site will of necessity also be limited. Important topics, but the wrong locale. It seems sadly unfair to force those of us here on a music forum to have to weed through off topic posts. Might it be possible for those who care deeply about music and politics find separate fora where they can enjoy the appropriate community for each endeavor? I would appreciate it if you could give my request some consideration. Thanks. |
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That New York Times link, actually both of them, are in some private mode and cannot be read without logging in. This particular thread started as an info about what could be of interest to people on this website. Thank you yyzsantabarbara. It is getting a little sick that any thread about pretty much anything becomes some "communism vs. us" non-sense. |
Thanks for the article. Good reporting by a truly great newspaper. Just a reminder, here's one of the NYT's best: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/sept-11-reckoning/portraits-of-grief.html... |
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You simply gloss over what’s been said and just keep on trucking. A couple of examples do not make for the totality of record. One can, however, go to any site you regularly visit and have a field day fact checking them and come to the conclusion that they are the polar opposite of proper journalism. You can do it half in your bottle of choice and still come away with the correct perception that they are propaganda, conjecture, and whitewashed lies pretending to be journalism. If it wasn’t for the internet, they wouldn’t be able to put out anything for mass consumption. The internet makes it easy for even you to come up with your own site and have at it. These sites are like People or Us magazine, for the addel brained. You know, for those who don’t like to read. All the best, Nonoise |
The Times' Walter Duranty won a Pulitzer for writing about the amazing success and perfect future that awaits us all under communism, while hiding the fact of millions being starved to death in the Ukraine. If lying to promote evil is what it takes to win a Pulitzer you can include me out. If publishing lies to promote evil isn't the enemy of the people then maybe cleeds or steakster you can tell me what it takes. A few years ago the Times ran a "fashion" special with full page spreads devoted to showing us all just how glamorous a burka can be. The starvation of millions. The subjugation of women. This is what you're defending. |
A lesson to all current and future musicians: Record all your masters direct to high resolution digital of at least 24Bit/96KHz, use Master Source (MS) coding for the tracking of provenance from the MS to the commercially delivered format and store them on this nonflammable, non-dynamic range limiting up to 150db, non-deteriorating and low distortion format that will sound exactly as pristine decades or more from now as it did when recorded. These masters also allow unlimited exact copying and delivery of literally master-quality music files to consumers for purchase,playback and enjoyment. Here's more details on the subject and requirements: https://www.grammy.com/sites/com/files/recommendations_for_hires_music_production_09_28_18.pdf Tim |
millercarbonChances are excellent that you never will. The New York Times has won 127 - so far. Here’s a list of a few hundred more awards won by the NYT. A google search for awards won by Fox News only displayed 404 Not Found pages. 🤔 |
How pathetic. First a predictable, Pavlovian, right wing knee jerk reaction and then a another, predictable deflection. And despite all the blather about the NYT, they sure came in handy with the lies they reprinted verbatim from the Bush administration in the lead up to the Iraq war and they sat on the story of the Bush administration illegally spying on all Americans until after the election. Thank goodness the Gray Lady is still a paper of record but they still step on stories they shouldn’t and have a strange conservative strain that leads to repeated retractions, omissions and some very biased headlines and stories. All the best, Nonoise |