I was skeptical at first but after trying a Innuos Zen Mk3, I am now a believer. With Innuos 2.0 fw, beats my dedicated NUC Roon setup.
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Whoever tells you the streamer does not make a difference only the DAC has no clue what they are talking about or just can’t afford to test higher end streamers. It is a compelling argument that bits are bits and either they arrive or not. I have tried streamers from $500 to $5,000 and there is a huge difference between streamers assuming you have a resolving system. Which one will work best in a particular system is an individual choice but the Auralic Aries G1 changed everything for me so it deserves to be on anyone’s list for a test. If the price seems high the results are accordingly. The Aries Femto and Mini are outstanding values in the used market. While not quite as resolving as the G1 I could happily live with either one. |
@marek28 What was your associated equipment? What you describe is not the sonic signature of Aurender. Was it more than two years old? They redesigned the power supply about a year and a half ago, although that by itself would not account for the sound you describe. Perhaps it was defective? I own two Aurender streamers and heard several other models in good systems. |
I purchased Aurender N10 based on many great reviews however at the end I was disappointed. I really wanted to keep it as it was a nice and convenient device and it did improved some sound properties (bigger stage, precision, details). To my ears Aurender N10 sounds too technical, yes precise but sterile and boring at the end. Still searching for the streamer which would sound more ‘organic’ and musical. |
@efoo I recommend looking at Aurender… I had a Auralic Aries G2 and my Aurenders are much better. Aurender makes streamers at many price points. Streamers make a huge difference! I have experience with streamers from $200 (PC, as well as separates) to $22,000. Also, actually Linn makes a good high end streamer. I now own a Aurender W20SE… and what at first looked like an exorbitant amount of money ($22K), instantly sounded like a cost effective deal when I heard it in my system. You can see my systems if you click on my ID. |
@Audionoobie I don't comment very often but I have to say, if you're not taking advantage of the fibre option on the X1 you're doing yourself a disservice. I've owned the X1 for a little over 2 years now after owning the T2 and in my system the difference is night and day. Compared to the Ether connection it's like listening at a higher resolution. In my opinion it's how the unit was intended to be operated.Though I do acknowledge that results may be system dependent as the X1 is only as good as the rest of the chain will allow. |
More and more Highend companies such as DCS, Bricasti, and others have found ,by having the Dac, and streamer on a totally isolated streamer board ,by having several linear power supplies, pre,and post regulation and filtering it is a more direct signal path ,lower noise ,as well as 2 less cables when properly implemented the latest in digital technologies,with more advancements to come , not cheap, but in many cases less mine |
I am looking for a high end streamer (a step up from blue sound) that does multi room without adding roon. I have looked into Moon/Sim and Naim but have no place close to hear a demo. I have 3 zones to cover. Anyone have any other suggestions. I kind of like the idea of separate streamer and dad but would consider the right combo. |
I went from Bluesound streaming to dCS, using the same DAC. There is simply no comparison. Unfortunately the dCS streamer (called Network Bridge) just became a legacy product, as dCS found it too expensive to maintain quality due to increased costs of raw materials and parts. List was $5300/-. Caveat: the operating system (Mosaic) is quite clunky, almost primitive, as compared to bluesound. But if it's sound quality you are looking for it's well worth searching for existing stock with the dealers or buying a used one.... Best wishes |
@larry5729 Are you only using the Bluesound Node 2i dac? What dac were u using that sounded less than the Node? I am just curious since I am in the market for a dac and streamer as well. I was considering the Denafrips Terminator II and the Bluesound. Does anyone know what the difference between the Node and Node 2i is? |
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All Streamers do the same damn thing. What’s key is the DAC that the Streamer is connected to. Your Internet Service Provider and the downlink speed is more critical. Don’t get me started on the Fibre Optic Crowd (unless you have 100’s of feet to run between you Streamer and you ISP’s modem).Do not understand the Fibre Optic comment. Here is something I asked the other day on another site.
When talking streaming, I think Fibre needs to be front and center of the discussion. Lumin now has 2 Fibre DACs and LINN has their $40K DAC with Fibre support. I am waiting on this tech to go into $1500 DACs, for example the $900 Matrix Mini-i Pro 3 DAC has RJ45 streaming input. Put a Fibre input in there and then a lot of fun will happen in the streaming space. |
audionoobie I had a Lumin T2 (now selling) and went all in for an Lumin X1 (used ones are now out there). I started with USB out of a laptop. The SQ difference was considerable when the T2 was in! The jump from the T2 to the X1 is not as profoundly noticeable but does garner a bit more. From what I have heard the Lumin T2, Brooklyn Bridge and PS Audio (all of them with DAC’s) are terrific. So many other things come into play ...room ...amp.. speakers... connects.. power and power supplies... life partner, etc. into the SQ of your systems. I have experienced better SQ with mid and upper all in one streamer solutions. I have never heard any 15K-30K ones. Most importantly I also have a lava lamp on top of my system. Ambience matters too. |
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Watching this thread with great interest. I like @larry5729 have done away with the external DAC (Mytek Liberty) and am just usning the DAC inside the Node 2. Puts out great bass and I find that the digital "glare" is reduced. Now I'm considering the purchase of a Lumin T2 but am havig a hard time wrapping my head around the $4500 price tag. |
I can only speak about the streamers that I have heard, and they range in price from a $200 (Logitech, SHM) to $3500 (Bryston). I currently use a second Generation Node in two mid Fi systems, and in my 2 channel system, a Melco N100 and CA CXN2. The DAC in the 2 channel system is a Bryston DAC3 and every streamer mentioned has been paired with it at some time. I also have played files using the Network Function of an Oppo 105 and 203 in all systems. The cheapest of the streamers sounded a little thin compared to the pricier ones. I can honestly say the Melco and the CA sound as good as the Bryston (they all sound really good, the Bryston OS was terrible). The Node was perhaps 3/4 of the way closer to the pricier streamers. I heard the current Node at a dealer a few months ago and it was very impressive. I haven’t heard Auralic, Innous, Naim, dCS…. So my conclusion based on my experience is that into the same DAC, the point of diminishing return was around $1200, roughly what Paid for the Melco and the CA. Any can do whatever they want to do with their money, but for me, the only way I would buy a new streamer is if it had some feature that comes down the pike in the future that can’t be added by a software upgrade. |
I echo the comments of people who say you don’t need to spend loads on streamers *for most people*. I’ve found the Auralic Aries G1 to be of very poor value against a Bluesound Node 2i in a review, used in a system it should fit into. The new 2021 node is great. Streamers as transports are one area in hifi most people don’t need to go crazy with, which I just wish was mirrored into the content of reviews which make out pricey streamers to be much much better. They can yield improvements in premium systems but diminishing returns are high. Mostly in hifi you don’t need to go crazy on streamers, unlike you can with your amp and speakers at any level, to get bigger changes. Spending on the DAC is much more worthwhile to the streaming transport and I like reviewing mainly the budget streaming transports since these are so good for what you get. These are some videos I’ve done that could be of help. https://youtu.be/ReE4wrTRoC4 https://youtu.be/dE_iSJM5h9w |
“All Streamers do the same damn thing” All cars, watches, door to door salespeople do the same thing too. But all streamers, record players, systems and rooms do not have the same SQ. Stop the insanity. |
All Streamers do the same damn thing. What's key is the DAC that the Streamer is connected to. Your Internet Service Provider and the downlink speed is more critical. Don't get me started on the Fibre Optic Crowd (unless you have 100's of feet to run between you Streamer and you ISP's modem). I run a Bluesound Node 2i for AmazonHD only (no more Qobuz for me) & my PCM files into a PS Audio DirectStream DAC Sr. My DSD files are played back via Audirvana or my DLNA connected (wired Ethernet) Sony UBP-X10000ES via I2S Adapters into the PSA DAC. Spend your money on the DAC, and have at least 90 - 100mbs from your modem (ISP) into your streamer for dropout free listening. Stop the insanity ! |
Hello, Its all about the DAC. If your DAC is good then you are good to go. I use the BlueSound Node 2i as the streamer. I want to upgrade the power supply because I heard it takes the BSN to a whole mother level. You say why spend the money? The BlueSound OS is really nice. Plus they offer other options to add on to your whole house music system. I tested the Ayre QX-8 DAC a few months ago and I thought it was really great for a five thousand dollar DAC/streamer. |
There are fundamental differences between using a streamers USB output to DAC versus SP/DIFF or AES output to DAC. Depending on the strength of your DAC one or the other can sound much better. The DAC must retime the USB bitstream, the others it does not. I have found large and profound differences between sub- $3K streamers, $5K, $10K, and $20K+ streamers. It is somewhat like a turntable, in general, high quality streamers provide a much higher quality signal. This is then turned into an analog signal and amplified. It may be counterintuitive, but it makes a huge difference. On the other hand like all components it needs to be matched with appropriate quality equipment for high quality sound that is cost effective. Matching a $10K streamer with $500 DAC, preamp, and amp is unlikely to allow you to fully appreciate it’s full potential. |
As @tk21 mentioned, adding the Bridge II to your DS Dac might be the best option. This is made specifically for your DAC and is probably the best value option. If you are looking for something that will work with other DACs, the BlueSound Node 2i is a great value although it may not be quite up to the standard set by your DAC. Along with the other excellent suggestions here, I would check out the Sonore products. The OpticalRendu, in particular, offers outstanding performance assuming you are connecting to a USB DAC. |
I'll join the Bluesound Node2i dogpile. I demoed a few streamers, dacs, and combos up to $3k (yes, not much in audiophile land but I'm not rich either) and I personally feel the Bluesound is the best deal going without spending more. It's simply amazing sound quality, and software updates are still coming today. For under $500 US it's a staggering value. |
I use an ASUS ROG laptop as my streamer hooked up to my PS Audio PerfectWave Mk II DAC. Using Qobuz I have compared several 16/44.1 titles to their corresponding CDs played through my PSA transport. They sound identical. I figure that's about as good as I can expect. My point here is that even streaming from a dirty, disgusting, EMI laden, noisy PC the performance equals playing a CD through the same DAC. Your PSA DS DAC buffers and reclocks all incoming data (as does my PW Mk II). That feature should make the choice of streamer less critical. You didn't say if you plan to use Roon but I can't imagine buying a new streamer that wasn't Roon Ready. The rest of the equation is more a matter of dollars vs. pride of ownership. |
You can put a Roon ROCK Intel NUC together for about $400.00. It will have equal or typically more processing power than other off the shelf servers. I followed Roon’s instructions to the letter and for a good year now the Roon ROCK NUC is rock solid. But you are committing to using Roon. https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/roon-optimized-core-kit#ROCK_For_Small_to_Medium-Siz... |
I went with a BlueSound Node 2i. When I purchased it, I added a DAC and the bass really thinned out. I removed the DAC and I found the DAC built into the BlueSound Node 2i to sound much better. It would be interesting to be able to compare sound quality by switching back and forth in a matter of seconds to compare. I haven't used a single CD since I began streaming using Tidal. Their library is enormous. Only thing I didn't realize is it looks like Tidal removes albums overnight. For example, they removed several Vincent Ingala albums. I was particularly fond of his song Nasty. This is one of the best songs to demo a sound system for sound quality. |
I would check out the Antipodes S40.
Sound is very clean sounding and delivers a great signal to your DAC. They have a very good USB connection and it definitely facilitates getting the most out of your DAC. It is a nice unit and has a clear and manageable upgrade path in terms of renderer, power supply and clock. I have definitely bought into Antipodes philosophy. I am a dealer but do a ton of research and you will find my opinion is not inconsistent with owners, largely because I use the K40. |
We have a lot of experience in this area We have sold most of the major brands of servers We have had Cambridge, auraylic,Naim, innous, Sotm, Baetis bluesound, Take away roon based servers sounded the best Innous beat all others till we found 432evo servers out of Belgium This server sounded even better and was an upgradeable platform The 7500 Aeon competes with the 14k Statement and in terms of design and technology stands against the best on the market The aeon offers complete data isolation with a seperate cpu board, clock card, and sound card,all.powered by two independent SBooster power supplies. Dave and troy AUDIO INTELLECT NJ US IMPORTER 432EVO MUSIC SERVERS |
SERVER options: * Roon Nucleus or sonicTransporter i5/i9 (if you want to run Roon Core) * Innuos Zenith line (if you want to run Roon Core, or if you only want to manage a local library of digitized music files) * Mac Mini, Raspberry Pi, or virtually any network-connected, full-function computer (if you want to run Roon Core, manage a local music file library, and also run other software for music or anything else). A few of many STREAMER options: * Bluesound Node (a relatively inexpensive entry-point, $550 US) * exaSound S88 streaming DAC (~$6500) * Matrix Audio Element series (~$3500 for the Element X, which can operate as either a network-attached or USB-attached DAC as well as a pre-amp and streamer) * Lumin T2 (~$4500) * PS Audio DirectStream with optional Bridge II For bang-for-buck value, features, build quality, and excellent SQ, the Element X is worth a look. However, Matrix is a Chinese company, which *might* be an issue for North American (or other global) customers when it comes to service/support. Lumin also is a Chinese company. Bluesound and exaSound are Canadian. If you want a Made-in-USA product, consider the Bridge II network card for PS Audio's DirectStream (which the OP already has, right?) |
I have a Cambridge CXNV2 as well and it’s great I for the main use it hard wired to my internet and it’s fantastic. I just last week sold my PS Audio gear and put in place a Peachtree Nova 150. This combo of Peachtree and Cambridge CXNV2 is outstanding!!!!! The staging and the clarity is unreal!!!! So happy! in the past I had a Musical Fidelity streamer that was good. also the support and auto updates from Cambridge is amazing. I might add that support from Peachtree was the very best. |
I have a Cambridge CXNV2 as well and it’s great I for the main use it hard wired to my internet and it’s fantastic. I just last week sold my PS Audio gear and put in place a Peachtree Nova 150. This combo of Peachtree and Cambridge CXNV2 is outstanding!!!!! The staging and the clarity is unreal!!!! So happy! in the past I had a Musical Fidelity streamer that was good. also the support and auto updates from Cambridge is amazing. I might add that support from Peachtree was the very best. |
