If you have upwards of 40w then Fyne speakers might work. Many models in different prices. I really like them but haven't bought any yet.
Reasonably sensitive speakers for tube amps, max $2k/pair, new or used
While this topic has been covered before, I'm interested in both recent experiences with new products or anyone who just would like to chime in.
I have a couple friends interested in tube amps, lower wattage -- 40 wpc or below. Before they pull the trigger there, they need to find the best higher sensitivity speakers they can, hopefully at $2k or below, new or used.
QUESTION: What high sensitivity speakers would you recommend to them, new or used? What did you try and NOT like?
Characterizations of their sound, experience with a trial period, the company, etc. appreciated.
I'll pass the best answers and links along to them.
I have a couple friends interested in tube amps, lower wattage -- 40 wpc or below. Before they pull the trigger there, they need to find the best higher sensitivity speakers they can, hopefully at $2k or below, new or used.
QUESTION: What high sensitivity speakers would you recommend to them, new or used? What did you try and NOT like?
Characterizations of their sound, experience with a trial period, the company, etc. appreciated.
I'll pass the best answers and links along to them.
87 responses Add your response
@hilde45 Two friends (one is a well known remastering engineer) and my living room second system have Signature IIIs. I'm using a highly modded Dyna ST70 for my pair with outstanding sound and deep, punchy bass. I'm glad you like my suggestion. The problem is finding one for sale. Possibly when someone dies at an estate sale. I'm looking for a dark cherry pair for one of my video systems. |
Used Legacy Signature IIs or IIIs between $1600 and $2000. Easy to drive 4 ohm, 94 db efficiency, 3.2 ohm min. 6-10" woofers, dual midrange, soft dome/ribbon tweeters and rear ambience tweeter. Gorgeous sound with tight, punchy deep bass. Can't be beat at that price. Drive nicely with 30 watts including a 1978 Yamaha CR620 receiver or a high end VAC amp. Superior dynamics and bass to a Magnapan and soooo much easier to drive. |
I have two systems…8 watt SET with linear tube mz2 as the pre and open baffle Cantuck audio lil 15s. Lovely in my small room….give the speakers 2-3 months to open up. my other system is in a much larger spac. Includes a restored fisher x202b with Klipsch fortes upgraded with alk crossovers and crites tweeter diaphragms….great sound. The alk crossovers really took the edge off the fortes, highly recommended I guess I have $1,200 in both the Cantuck lil 15s and Klipsch fortes, so either meets your budget |
+1 re buchardts... great performance for the modest cost re spatials, one must be careful not to generalize... the tonality of older vs current gen spatials have changed considerably... the new (current) line uses much more lively tweeters which make the presentation (at least the highs) much more upfront than the older gen m4, triode masters, what have you... big big difference --- so you read folks writing about how incredible the m3 sapphires of x5s are, then you go get a pair of the old ones, you will certainly experience massive cognitive dissonance 😱😱 |
They might not be easy to find but a pair of Spatial Audio speakers would fit the bill nicely. I recently upgraded my very inefficient magnepan MMGs to a pair of Spatial Audio M3 sapphires and am absolutely blown away at them. I’ve read nothing but good things about all Spatial Audio speakers — I tried to buy a used pair of M4 turbos but someone beat me to it — that was about six months ago on the used market and the price was $2000 on the nose. |
Room size? I’m not certain I would consider 40wpc push pull to be a flea watt. I own a 40wpc push pull and a 200wpc solid state. When I started out, i used both with some Dali speakers - I believe 86db - in a medium sized room. The 200w dial at 50% gave me the same loudness as the 40w dial gave me at 25%. I came out believing that 10w tube equals 100w SS. No idea why. For the record I now have a 20wpc and 7wpc tube SET amps with Omega’s, Lii Audio F-15 DIY open baffles, the Dali’s, wall mounted Waltz’s, and Klipsch Heresey’s. My 40wpc can drive any of them. My push pull is less revealing than my lower watt SET’s, so if that is typical I would say something more revealing in the high end and more detailed would be a better fit. Also, the bass can lean to the boomy side of things - which would lead me to believe a full range driver would be the best fit. I think if we knew more about the space it would be easier to recommend a specific speaker. The Klipsch Hereseys are fantastic, but with that amp the dial would never pass 1. They are loud. The open baffles DIY throw the best soundstage with my 40wpc, but they are very dependent on placement and room behind them. The omegas would probably be the best fit, unless you have the space. |
@hilde45 I've read through all the suggestions here and based on the fact that your friends have subs and are looking at "mid-powered" tubes I would have them talk to Fritz and see what they can work out. He may in fact have some models that have been out for in home audition that he can work with them on. |
There will always be Exceptions to the rule. Case in point... Emerald Physics Open Baffle speakers, specifically the 3.0 and up offerings I have 3.4s which combine a 12" woofer with a 1" concentric polyester tweeter (~97dB), plus, a small amp friendly load. Amazing value for sure (see my Virtual System for picture). In most 'normal rooms' they will be all you need, but mine is far from that, so I supplement with 2 SVS powered subs |
@jjss49 Outstanding explanation about the pitfalls of efficient speakers. It’s great to have someone on this site that actually knows what He/She is talkin’ about!! |
@jjss49 Very educative primer -- thank you. Both of my friends have subs, so looking for an efficient speaker that doesn't *try* to do a lot of bass would probably get them a bit more bang for their stand mount buck. Not sure which of the speakers suggested on this list so far are willing to just forego the promise (to the customer) of a very low bass end, but that would be interesting to sort out. |
perhaps it is obvious to most here, but for those less knowledgeable, let’s review why the world isn’t populated with home and room friendly $1500 a pair speakers at 95 db/w/m efficiency that sound just wonderful... when you make a speaker more and more efficient, you use lightweight transducers or horn shaped ’magnifiers’ to get the additional output or ’loudness’ -- but you get it primarily in the midband and lower treble... so you then need to deal with the lack of bass, and the lightweight transducers being less stiff and hard to control once they are moving... so then, to get better bass, you need a big big cabinet (that’s why many ’good’, e.g. well balanced top to bottom speakers are very very large)... many also try cabinet porting, but then there are difficult port issues to deal with when alot of air is moving on bass passages, so then you damp the port to control that, but then you lose efficiency again... doh!!! lighter transducers can be solved with high tech materials, but you still need power to move the voice coils via magnet structures, and you tend to want smaller lighter magnet structures but you use those and they often overshoot... thus more distortion, especially on complex music... doh... horn magnifiers have their own type of wave propogation distortion, highlighting imbalances in frequency response of the driver they are magnifying... which then in turn take a lot of skill and cost to tune properly, as room conditions in home applications can vary considerably due to the above, it is very very very hard to build a well integrated top of bottom speaker that is high efficiency and of a reasonable size, and has bass response we want ... and this is why even good high efficiency speakers tend to sound a little more ’peaky’/’ragged’ than counterparts of equal cost and quality but lower efficiency so all this is a long way of saying, let’s understand what the industry has been dealing with here -- it is basically a tough physics problem -- and with cheaper clean amplification becoming available over time with solid state amps, this is why the industry took the route of reducing efficiency to get a more ’flat’ and bass impactful sound out of domesticated speakers.... and we can of course argue speaker makers went too far off course in that direction as well so if it were so easy to make super great sounding high efficiency speakers that can satisfy us and look passable in our homes, easily driven by sweetie pie 8 wpc single ended 300b amps -- they would be flooding the market, and we would all have them... |
+1 for Zu Dirty Weekends - I run them with a 15 wpc Cary 300B SET integrated. The DWs were $1K with the base finish when I bought them 15 months ago. I team them with a pair of SVS SB1000 Pro subs which were less than $1K. This is a nice $2K combo that sounds excellent with acoustic, rock, blues and jazz tunes in a smaller room...15x15. The DWs also sound wonderful with an 18 wpc First Watt SIT-3, which is solid state but has some tube sonic qualities. The SIT-3 is used primarily in my main system with a PrimaLuna tube preamp running Belle Klipsch speakers and a 2x12 SVS sub, but in a much larger room. I also have a pair of Heresy I's and a pair of Heresy II's which both shine with these amps and can be found for under $1K online. These, also matched with a sub, would sound great with a tube amp, but not as nice as the aforementioned Heresy IIIs or IVs but easier to locate at a reasonable price. Bob Crites has updated crossovers etc. that can help to modernize these older unit. |
@herbreichert Thanks for reminding me about those. I bought some RP-600M's to try out while my Salk speakers were being built and I liked them a lot. I still have them and could loan them to my buddy. But....I still found them a bit bright with my 60wpc tubes. However, you're saying 300B and so that may be a more magical solution. If you wouldn't mind adding to your comment: (a) Did you modify the Klipsch 600-Ms crossover, as some are doing? If so, did it improve them? (b) Did you try the speakers *both* with more and less powerful tube amps and noticed that there was a significant difference with the 300B tubes? Thank you very much for replying to this thread. |
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To those who maybe think I was being to demanding or too time consuming for Eric Alexander to be courteous, I had two main questions regarding my amp wattage and type and my room size to get an idea of what speaker would be the best match. The whole interaction was a one sentence email response for me to call the shop instead of emailing (which I thought would be easier so he could answer in his own time) and then me attempting 2-3 times over a few weeks to call and get no response. I finally got him a few weeks later and our phone call was less than a few minutes. I know what overbearing is and I’m self aware enough to know when I’m being that and when I’m not. The phone call lasted three minutes or so and made it clear to me I was not important and he didn’t give a sh!t about my business. Just shook my head after the call like “what the the hell was that all about? F me for wanting to ask a question”. So yeah probably an off day for him but still, I couldn’t think of a single thing I had done to warrant his response. Do they make good speakers? Maybe they do. I don’t care to try them now. YMMV but my experience was not good so it’s not worth chasing the guy to see if he’ll be nicer next time. I’ll move on and I did. Just a caveat emptor over here…. |
Ecterrel...."We get it guy. You hate Tektons as much as 99.9% of people like them. You can go on about return policy’s and cheap boxes all you want but you can’t explain away their HiFi awards and huge demand."......Im sorry i didnt realize that 99.9% of the audio community like Tekton and im in the .1% and i seem to have missed all the awards the products have received, my mistake ....but until the tekton clown posse stops trying to shoving this down our throats the .1% will speak out bs..enjoy em |
Obviously there are big differences if we are talking new or used. Also big differences w.r.t. how much bass extension you want. I'll second the Fritz recommendation, for a standmount, new or used, with good bass extension. You can get a used pair of Audio Note AN-J for about 2.5K. You can get a used pair of Devore O/93 for about 5.5K. |
I recently watched a vid on Klipsch La Scalas. You find a beat up used pair for 1500 bucks and upgrade the crossover and drivers for 500-1000 bucks and have a pair that supposedly sound comparable to the modern ones. I might try it myself sometime. Those are in the 100db/w range I think. That would be great with the low tube watts. |
@missioncooneryWe get it guy. You hate Tektons as much as 99.9% of people like them. You can go on about return policy’s and cheap boxes all you want but you can’t explain away their HiFi awards and huge demand. and no, no shilling here dude. I’m a person who has heard their products and like them. Also, I’ve spoken with Eric and was respectful to him. We had a nice conversation. You don’t like him? Whatever. You don’t like their products? Fine, then don’t buy them. But endlessly bashing them based on you opinion is weak. At this point I’m beginning to consider your posts trolling. So, here’s a suggestion. Instead of bashing someone and their product, hows about promoting a competing product if you can find one. After all that was the point of this thread. And I ain’t keyboard warrioring either. I’d say this to anyone’s face. I have a good deal of respect for the man who brought reasonably prices HiFi to my home so I can recoup the lost value of overpriced museum pieces that did less. |
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i would say 5-6k might be a minimum... as usual it is all about where one sets the bar for ’good sounding’ This is very useful, indeed. After all, it's likely a very good sounding speaker that's *not* sensitive can be had for $2k or less and then the money which would have been necessary for a really good sounding speaker could be apportioned back to the amp. In other words, if $5-6k for a really good sensitive speaker is needed in order to save on tube amps, the outcome here seems to be that spending on amps is fine. It becomes more about how the sensitive speaker w/ lower power tube stuff sounds, as a combo, compared to a less sensitive one with a more powerful amp. |
The thing is, the really good-sounding high-sensitivity speakers start a bit over 2K. @twoleftears is being kind here... i would say 5-6k might be a minimum... as usual it is all about where one sets the bar for ’good sounding’ as for tekton, my personal take is i would tend to discount one-off input from folks here bashing the person behind what is otherwise a respected and well known maker... anyone who has been around a consumer retail luxury good business knows that there can always be a small percentage of folks and instances where getting along and making them happy may be nigh impossible... a function of circumstances, demands being made, an off-day by the owner (they are people too) etc etc... |
