Pure analog system with high power

Is your stated budget just for the amplification?

Hi,
thanks for your reply... Yes my current budget is just for the amplification... Of course if there is any good stuff also for a bit less than 3.500 dollars is still fine:)

I have been very pleased with a used Rogue Cronus Magnum II.  No Dacs, etc.  The III appears to have a more sophisticated phono stage.  Mine is 100 tube watts and easily drives my Ohm Walsh 4 as well as my previous 200W solid state.

Used PASS 250.8 its over budget however.

Rogue Cronus Magnum is definitely on my list, unfortunately in EU costs for Rogue's gear are so expensive... If I were i  the US I would have definitely gone for it... Do you know anything about Odyssey? Still made in the US but no dealers or retailers in between... seems very interesting pieces, both the Khartago and the Stratos

Thanks ebm, in EU Pass Labs gears are crazy expensive... and it' a shame as I would have increased the budget to 5.000 dollars for an XA25 at least... low Wattage but extremely high current and quality...

It will certainly depend on the character of the amp you are looking for. The Mggies like power. Unless you are looking for very warm Pass is an excellent solution (then the Pass XA25). I agree a used Pass x250 is a good choice... I owned a Pass x350 for ten or fifteen years. Highly recommended.

I just saw your comment above on the cost in EU... sorry to hear. I have owned Pass since about 1979...until a couple years ago. I also owned ribbon and electrostatic during that time and Pass was a great match,

Thanks for your feedback... very hard to get a Pass Labs in EU... and prices much higher than in US... I am afraid I'll need a different solution... I heard good feedbacks regarding Schiit and Odyssey's gears, still from US but selling directly from the producer... do you think it could be an idea?

Avantone  CLA-200. 
  no rca connections, any good pair of XLR cables will work great. There is a nice pair by audioquest or other manufacturers which is xlr on one end to rca’s. 
  Great amp, stable, and plenty of power. Mine will be ordered in a week and a half, for a nice backup amp. 
  Plenty of good preamps on AG to choose from at great used prices. CJ et3 (se if can find one)

  no need to use all the amps power, bu having great headroom is a must. 

Both Schiit and odyssey are good products. 
   Nothing in your neck of the woods? Trying to get any warranty stuff from across the pond will (could) be a pain in the taint. 
Several great internet companies which have great customer service. 
Sweetwater is great,  not sure If ship across the pond 

Schiit is great budget gear, but not at the same level as Pass. 

I read your OP and understand your goals and totally on board with them. Which is why I have to say, if you continue with your plans to buy either of those speakers you are shooting yourself in the foot with both hands tied behind your back. You do not need high power. Quite the opposite. You do not need hardly any power at all. You will exceed your wildest dreams with single digit watts. Just not with those terrible speaker choices. 

I'll check the Avantone, it's distributed in Poland and I could demo it. Do you think this one with a good preamp would be better than integrated which have plenty of great reviews like music fidelity m6si or parasound hint6? Replying to your question, here there are many local products, but mainly tube stuff, you probably heard about polish Fezz Titania or Feliks...On solid state Struss. Some gears from other companies like Parasound, Musical Fidelity are easy to find and with right prices. Unfortunately it's not the case of Pass Labs or Mcintosh or Rogue, they almost double the prices... Thanks Arcticdeath

parasound hint6 is powerful class ab amp with a very nice onboard phono stage... fits within your budget

Hi Millercarbon, thanks for sharing your opinion. I'm intrigued buy Magnepans, at least I'd like to test them. Of course I accept suggestions also regarding speakers. Any good idea?

Hi Jjss, thanks, the hint6 as well with the halo integrated is on the list... just wanted to see if I can find something better also considering separated pieces, especially with no dacs and extra functions which I won't need. But in the end an integrated is a solution I consider

Hi OP - have you considered upgrading with Rega?  

I just bought a Rogue Ares Magnum phono drive so I say, go Rogue or go home!

Parasound JC5 or
Parasound HINT 6

Make sure you are able to try the Maggies before you buy.  I had some in what I thought was a great room and they never did work.  I had oodles of Macintosh power but never achieved the sound I wished for.  
Harbeth will likely be good in most any situation.
For lower dollar and high power Parasound is the best in class.
I've been there and done all that.  Now I'm headed in the opposite direction.  Extremely efficient speakers on very low watt (4 watts per channel) SE Tube Triode power.  
It's all fun! 

Bryston is bullet proof and reasonably close to state of the art. 20 year warrantee.

Now for the good news. Bryston has a trade-in program. Trade-ins are reconditioned, retested, and resold by Bryston, with a 5 year warrantee. I just picked up my 4th unit for an amazing power plant for a couple of subs.

Ask the VP, James Tanner for his advice. He's very helpful.

By the way, Bryston plus Magnepan is a marriage made in heaven. My personal experience. Currently in use in my HT.

Audition Magnepan before you buy - I think it's a great sound, and by far the best for the buck - but not everyone likes it - don't understand that myself, but I know it's true. 

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisaa60f-legacy-audio-ultra-high-current-amp-coda-ls96-ls200-pass-solid-state

1st 50w class A sliding into class A/B  250w 8ohm 400w 4ohm. Tons of current (50a). Sounds amazing. Bought one of these in lieu of a Bryston 4b sst2.

I have auditioned Maggie’s many times... they sound great with lots of good clean and natural power. But I have never bought them even though I have owned other ribbon and planar speakers. Then when I started attending the symphony moved to traditional speakers and found that although certain recording sounded not quit as magical, overall all music types started sounding much better. Overall, the musicality and fidelity has increased in my systems using traditional speaker system. But it depends on what kind of sound you value and what kind of music you listen to. For instance if I listened primarily to rock, I would have a McIntosh / B&W speaker system. If I valued holographic I would have a  Rowland / Wilson speaker. But I value highly detailed,  warm, natural, large sound stage presentation, so I have Audio Research / Sonus Faber speaker system.

With 88db 1w/1m the power will be beneficial.    An easy load on the amp at 8 Ohm. 
  Nice speakers!
have a sub to relieve the woofers?

I just changed from a Rega Brio to Schiit Ragnarok 2. It is a HUGE upgrade, you will not be dissapointed. Of course may not be as good as a much more expensive Pass amp. It has pretty low power, though. About 60W into 8 ohm.

The good news is that you can buy them in Europe from
https://www.schiit-europe.com/

I think you should look into buying 2 Vidar and a pre-amp. That will give you much more power and hopefully sound as good or better.
https://www.schiit-europe.com/product/vidar-intelligent-stereo-mono-power-amplifier-2/

You can also look for brands that are easier to find in Europe like Aavik, Copland, Devialet or Hegel. The Aavik I-180 looks good but costs more. Hegel H190 might be perfect in price.

Hi Mrklas... I was thinking of Rega Elicit... but 160 watt on 4 ohm is a bit low... Rega Aethos is out of budget

Hi Alexleatham, which speakers are you using? 

hi terry, regarding bryston, you mean they trade in whatever? i have stuff i don't use anymore like a nad3020 and a pair of tannoy mercury m2. which bryston gear have you in use?

@rfnoise thanks, looks like a great recommendation... which preamp are you using with it?

@adversam


I’m using an Audio Research Corporation LS-25 MkII.
Thus far I’m pretty sold on the “tube pre/SS power” combo. Great imaging, open airy highs, and a real authoritative grip on the low end. Overall, I’d characterize the sound of the amp as being just a tad warmer than neutral.


I hate to fall into the “buy what I have” camp, but I really lucked out with this amp; The Bryston I was looking at was $2500.

Funny story... The guy I ended up buying my Legacy from turned out to be selling it BC he’d “upgraded” and actually bought the exact Bryston I’d been looking at. When we hooked up my preamp to the Legacy to audition, I looked over at him and he was shaking his head. I asked him if something was wrong and he told me that the amp he was selling me sounded better paired with my preamp than his new Bryston paired with his SS pre 😁.

Before I settled on my ARC pre, I was looking at both Audio By Van Alstine and Quicksilver Audio, but I can’t personally recommend either as I never had a chance to Audition them.

Anyway, I hope this helps. Best of luck!

Oh, here’s a link to an old listing that has a pic of the sales brochure on it.

https://www.audioexchange.co.za/product/legacy-audio-power-amplifier/

Welcome @adversam.  You are certainly on the right track with all your choices.

Don't let that awful bully Miller put you off your course.  He is obsessed by ultra high efficiency speakers and therefore ignores 90% of speakers many of which have superlative sound quality, including panels like Magnepan.  You should also try electrostatics when your budget allows.

As to amps, like others I suggest you tap the used market.  High end solid state leviathans push out bags of watts for decades without needing service.  My Krell KRS200s, pure Class A, were built in the mid-80s.  I bought them in 1989 and had them fully serviced and re-capped just once, in 2005.  They cost £35,000 or something new.  I paid £8,000 and they still sell for that.  And wow!  they don't half look the business.  I used to be able to lift them!

You might like the A100 from Polish design studio Circle Labs if you can find one; the A200 is their flagship integrated but at a bit higher price.

thanks rfnoise, the legacy with your ARC pre seems a wonderful solution, i'll consider it for sure... do you believe a schiit freya preamp could also be a good match with legacy? or the candela vacuum tube from odyssey? it seems both are good preamp.

thanks gestalt i totally missed this one... plus they are in Krakow, where i live... definitely to put on my list!

I tend to agree with MC about more efficient speakers. However IF you have heard the Maggies and like them, then so be it. Lots of people do. That's why I auditioned them. They sounded great...as long as you stay in the sweet spot. Salesman said they weren't set up just right and maybe so. But everything appeared in order. And maybe a small adjustment may have opened the sweet spot. But the sweet spot was immensely small. If I leaned my head over to make a comment, I lost the sweet spot. I don't know if that was normal. But I didn't care for that aspect. Maybe others who have them can chime in on that issue. 

Sorry I can't be more help on the amps or integrated. 

I'd go with harbeth p3esr, seeing as you mentioned harbeths, and a class A sugden a21se integrated.

Best bang for the watt/buck
Parasound A21+ Amp
Parasound JC2 Preamp 
both for less than $4k
Really good solid state equipment and resale is very good as well
this system will drive nearly any speaker
Good luck Willy-T

@headphonedreams thanks for recommendation on schiit gear, it' s one at the top of my list... thinking of freya vidar combo, but first would like to find feedbacks regarding Odyssey gears... they are made in US and they sell directly... any idea on that one ?

hi audioguy85... regarding speakers it's a tough competition between the small harbeths and the mag .7... At least i can demo the harbeth's here... for the maggies will be not so easy... the sugden a21 is your current amp? looks great!

What about Hegel? Something like the H190 new or maybe an H390 if you could find one used should be in your price range. They are well regarded and I assume easy to find in the UK.

Maggie's are truly wonderful sounding speakers when paired with a high current amp. I used the 1.7 with a Parasound Halo Hint and it was great sounding. You get everything you need in one package including bass management which is helpful if you add a it sub.
Have fun auditioning, with speakers you need to listen and decide for yourself.

@guyincognito the H190 is definitely something i'd like to test... what i don't like from Hegel is that it's all made in China

Hi Johnto, yes if i don't get separates, regarding integrated the Halo is the first one i'm going to audition... some says it's not engaging enough, but i want to hear it

By the way, Bryston plus Magnepan is a marriage made in heaven. My personal experience.

I was using a Bryston 4b with Magnepan Tympanis ~40 years ago!

About Bryston - their trade-in program only applies to Bryston gear. So if you're upgrading from a 4B to another Bryston piece they will take your 4B in trade.

Different generations of Bryston sound rather different. The SST series is a bit mellow and very pleasing, the SST squared is little bright (so I'm told), and the SST cubed is much more precise and a little mellow (so I'm told).

Anyway, I had a 2B which was used for a sub - and it was good. I also had a 3B SST and a 4B SST for my Magnepan 2-channel system. Then I went ESL with DIY electronics for 2-channel, and sold the Brystons.

But now I have a separate HT which requires good clean subs, and that  means a big, stable, bullet-proof, forever SS amp: that is, a Bryston 4B SST, bought factory reconditioned and certified from Bryston.

When you say pure analog system, do you mean you want a tube amp?  Also, the best value for the money in my definition would be essentially free, which is a very real possibility in high end audio. I view value a bit differently and always consider resale valuation and total Cost of ownership.  I usually aim to break even on an audio purchase.  Buy used, get reputable, reliable, easy to sell brands and your main costs will be on records and wear and tear items like tubes and needles.  Don’t waste money on expensive digital equipment (the biggest losers are always feature based products that can become obsolete, but that doesn’t sound like it will be an issue.  Spend money on speakers and amplification (but don’t go too big as shipping and placement becomes a detriment to resale). I’d also avoid niche designs like Maggie’s that work best with specific music genres and are very equipment and room dependent.  
Tips- look for popular brands and models that come up ad nauseam in the forums, find out the typical prices they sell for and be patient. If you have trouble finding it used because it sells too quick, that’s probably a winner right there.  Buying local really helps as well, you generally won’t make back shipping costs on resale.  

@perdakin thanks for your feedback... could be either tube or solid state without an6 kind of dac or digital input... very easy stuff regarding the specs as i just needto play lps or cds... do you have any favourite combination to recommend? regarding magnepans it' something i'd like to try sooner or later but after the amp i could also buy something totally different, especially if i get good ideas to try

@adversam,

The Odyssey is an excellent choice.  I owned Odyssey for many years and it mated well with many different preamps.  Although I have moved on to more expensive gear, I still kick myself for selling it.  Yup, it was that good.