You might enjoy a pair of the latest Ohm Walsh's from John Strohbeen's company in Brooklyn, NY. I have an older pair and they do indeed produce a room-filling 3-D image! And from anywhere in the room! No subs required! Too bad most have never heard/owned a pair! The Walsh's are capable of astoundingly realistic sound!
Pondering a change after 30 odd years...
After 30 years I think it's time to move on. I have a set of Acoustat 1+1s that I've owned since new, paired with an RHLabs passive sub. It's been a great combination and still sounds pretty nice but it's all long in the tooth. Sooner or later a panel will quit then I'm dead in the water. I love the soundstage with it's "fullsized" presentation even if it's a PITA to get them dialed in just so. Maybe I'm just getting restless! I've heard many "box" speakers but damn no matter the price point it seems I can hear the "box". Granted I haven't listened to some of the big $$ stuff like Wilson but that's way outside my budget anyways. LOL! I'm wondering how some of the smaller "monitors" on stands sound? One thing I'm thinking I'd miss is the vertical part of my large soundstage. I've read about the Golden Ear line which get decent reviews. Or should I just stick with a panel of some sort, like Maggies? I've about 110 watts/side of tube power to work with. As for budget, I'm thinking somewhere in the $5-7.5K range. I'm listening to a lot of jazz these days with a dash of classical. But I'd hate to think my old rock vinyl wouldn't be welcome anymore. I know this is all pretty vague but hoping to get a nice discussion with things to think about versus "buy this" sorts of recommendations. AdThanksVance!
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You might want to look at the Vandersteen 3A Signatures: https://www.vandersteen.com/products/model-3a-signature Based on your post they might be just what you are looking for. Good Luck! |
I ran a pair of Acoustat Model IIIs, biamped to transmission line subs, for quite a while. Had to downsize, do to a low WAF (lost the house/divorce). Stayed with panels (Maggies), for years. Now; I own a pair of Clayton Shaw’s earlier design. If you enjoyed your Acoustats: you’ll probably love any one of Spatial Audio Lab’s newer builds. Especially, those with an AMT. Very easy to drive, open, airy, nice bite (when it’s right). https://www.spatialaudio.us/xseries/x5 |
For a very long time I was a confirmed Magnepan owner. The ribbon tweeter an a full sized Maggie coupled with a great sub was very enjoyable. I was not swayed away from panels until I listened to Revel speakers. I am quite content with my Revel studio 2’s and have zero thoughts of changing speakers. So there is life after panel speakers |
Brings back memories. I salivated over Accoustat 2+2s 40something years ago. Couldn't afford them. I knew I wanted to go panels though. later I bought Audiostatics and still have them. A few years ago I changed to Martin Logan CLX Anniversaries in the lovely brushed aluminium finish rather than wood. Keepers, I won't be changing them Follow your ears Musicfan and stay with panels. You can't beat electrostatics for clarity and cleanness. |
I am kind of in same predicament I had a solid state 1990s era system with a pair of Linn Katan bookshelf speakers and a B&W ASW700 powered subwoofer for about last 16 years it was good setup but last year I decided to go vintage tube gear I have a midcentury style house and furniture plus always wanted to try a vintage system. Anyhow i bought a restored Mcintosh MC225 and a MX110 and got a Rega P3 (not vintage but looks good lol) Anyway I wanted bigger old school style speakers and also more efficient the Linn only 86db 1w. I put together some vintage Altec stuff but that didnt sound very good so pondered larger Linns or saw rave reviews on Tannoys. Unfortunately I am nowhere near a Linn or Tannoy dealer so was flying blind. I ended up taking chance on Tannoy Cheviots they were out of my price range but went for anyway am not sure if I am thrilled with them or not they are very laid back sound in midrange area which am not thrilled about The bass and soundstage are good but honestly I dont think that pound per pound they are not any better sounding than the Katans in fact Katan better midrange and horns seem to have more depth and air in the Katan the Tannoy seems more flat sounding. I only have about 30 hrs on Cheviot have been told will improve when broken in but I dont see it what is you guys opinion? I can send these back but clock is ticking. I thought about Linn Majic 140 are about 3k pair I dont want the typical black stick speaker with bunch of 6" woofers, didnt really like the b&w 7 series stuff, dont want klipsch or jbl retro lines they sound like crap and way overpriced. Any advice be apreciated Thanks |
Stick with OBs I hav =e heard 1+1s but 2+2s are a lot more dynamic I owned Accoustat 2+2s with both dual moded servo amps and 121 Cs with medallions, which allowed me to try different amps. I much preferred the servos, but back then full amp mods weren't available and consequently they weren't stable, more than once I dealt with cherry red tubes. One of my friends had custom 5+5s> Aftr I sold mine he came across a guy doing full mods and said his servos were then 100% stable. I think this is the guy Hello Friends -- This is just to let you know that my email contact has recently changed. It seems AT&T/Yahoo could no longer support my very old prodigy.net email address. For those of you requiring fantastic restorations and upgrading of Acoustat MK and Spectra Interfaces and Acoustat Power Amplifiers and Preamplifiers my new email address is acoustat.service.usa@gmail.com Anyway... After that I owned Usher 6371s, which were quite nice, followed by Maggie 3.5Rs, which did not compare to my 2 + 2s. I tried active XOs, biamping, dual subs (could not achieve a seamless blend), no matter what I tried I never got the 2+2 magic. Over the last 4+ years I have used Emerald Physics OB speakers. I am currently enjoying the hell out of 3.4s which consist of 12" concentric woofers with 1" polyester tweeters @ 96dB. No matter the music genre, they are amazing, missing a bit of deep bass in my ~ 20 x 40 x 12 ft peak in open beam ceiling. Original MSRP was ~ $4000 but EP has a new version under development. People are picking up 3.4s on the used market for < $1000 HTH |
Here you go. Looking at his pictures, the OEM jumpers SUCK. I replaced them with easy to terminate bulk OCC from WireWorld. Also, I moved the XOs off the base which vibrates like crazy. Additionally, no telling how he has them positioned, and he has them on unspiked lifters over carpet. Mine rest on cheap Harbor Freight Dollys with rubber wheels You’ll thank me if you jump on them https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649662658-emerald-physics-34-speakers-triple-black-finish/ |
I had the original Acoustat X speakers, which I bought new. Sold due to downsizing and still regret it. The only thing I didn't like was the one person only beaming imaging. The Acoustat panels are close to indestructible. You could try a few things. In terms of box speakers sounding boxless, IME Wilson Benesh produces speakers with great imaging and incredibly low cabinet noise. I saw an older pair of Discovery stand mounts on e-bay today (no relationship). Upgrade your subs to new active subs, look for some Sound Lab speakers, or maybe Eminent Tech speakers (link below) Good luck with your search. http://www.eminent-tech.com/ |
If you have loved what you have, why open a can of worms? Why not possibly have the panels refurbished/updated and/or try a different power amp and continue a path that satisfies and you understand? Some in this hobby really enjoy fiddling and taste testing. To me, it sounds as though your interest is in a satisfying listen. There is so much opportunity for not quite hitting the target and your sweet spot preference wise. I suggest staying where your at and doubling down. Happy Listening! [|;^)> |
I am biased - but hear is my recommendation ; with a budget in the 7k range - the Best Buy in the Maggie line is the 1.7is - a 100 watts of power per channel should make them sing. You can use the Maggie bass panel (DWM)if you want more bass - I did this on one system, but I was not happy until I got the bass panel it’s own amp. Sounds great biamped - amazing soundstage and good bass slam for my Rock albums. I mostly play Blues and Jazz. This combo costs less than 5k. Or you can add bass to the 1.7is with The Swarm - a 4 sub system with it’s own amp. I just ordered The Swarm for my second stereo system (Peter Gunned Maggie 1. 6qrs) - Per TAS review - The Swarm will fix any room’s bass issues. I will let you know how it turns out once I get The Swarm set up. Hope to have them in 4 to 6 weeks - The Swarm would run in the range of 3k. Happy Listening! |
Thank you all for your kind thoughts and suggestions! I'd whinge a bit that most folks offered specific equipment suggestions vs. the conversation of "things to think about" I was hoping for but I think it's rather the nature of the beast being an audiophile. I admit my interest is piqued about the Spatial line of speakers. I live in the Seattle area and it's looking like the closest place to hear them in in SLC, a mere 12 hour drive... They seem a bit more forgiving of room placement versus electrostatic/planar speakers. But, I think the search is on! Thank you all again... |
I was sorta’ in your positon several years ago. After owning them for over a decade, I was
considering replacing my Soundlab stats., with a newer Soundlab model. Before spending considerable funds, I wanted to have a clue whether anything else would better suit my fancy. Hence, my son and I sojourned to RMAF. We did so, primarily to listen to every speaker we could, which we did. After hitting all the rooms, we kept returning to what we termed “effortless” reproduction. As a generalization, lower power SET friendly speakers tend to also provide this. My son has a penchant for horns, which I believe, represents the definition of a speaker being “effortless”. Thus, we found that we received the most satisfaction from panels, horns and open baffle designs. After returning home, I ordered the new pair of Soundlabs. Thus, this experience has suggested that listening to as many types of speakers as one can, is a worthy endeavor! From that, perhaps a type (box, open baffle, horns, various panels etc.) can be selected. Then the shopping begins. I’ve adhered to the premise of speaker “type” since my first high-end system which consisted of ESS Heil AMT-3 (“Rockmonitors”), with their “effortless” sounding Air Motion Transformer. These speakers had their limitations (especially coherence between drivers), but decades later, the Heil’s are still going strong in my son’s game room and AMT's are still being utilized in speaker design. Thereafter, I’ve owned Apogee’s, Martin Logans and Soundlabs. Presently, I use Logans in my up stair’s home theater and newly purchased the Soundlab Majestic 845’s reside in my 2-channel room. Everything in this hobby is personal as far as taste in presentation and sound is concerned. There is no one answer (or speaker) for everybody – it’s too personal. That’s why I believe it’s imperative to listen to as many different speakers (especially types) that one can. Although audio shows with their limited days for setup, multiple combinations of unknown components and impractical room sizes, are the NOT the best venue for critical auditioning. However, they are a superb venues for checking out speaker types!! |
Musicfan, Way back I had a pair of Acoustat Monitor fours that I mounted on top of RHLabs Subwoofers!! I loved those subwoofers. Never should have sold them. Mine were walnut. Anyway check out my system. I currently run 2+2's which I have owned on and off for 40 years. Unless you take an ice pick to the panels they will last forever. So, don't worry about that. The only real downside to these speakers is that they are very selfish. You have to be seated in exactly the right spot or the high end disappears. I an going to move to Sound Labs 845's just because of this problem. The Sound Labs are also an easier load and a bit more efficient. You have been living with the 1+1's for a long time. Switching to any other type of speaker is liable to be a disappointment in the long run. You might tolerate Magnepan 3.7i's but once an ESL fan? It is hard to lose the inner detail, transient snap and sense of the third dimension that no other speaker has. Most people think all ESLs are like Quads and have never listened to a sturdy line source ESL like yours. Your soundstage is way more lifelike than what you get out of any dynamic loudspeaker except perhaps the ones that are set up as line sources (Pipe Dreams). Getting a speaker better than the 1+1s is not going to be easy or cheap. The least expensive would be the Maggie 3.7i's. I would audition them for at least several hours. There is Sander's Sound Systems model 10 but I actually think your 1+1's are better! Sound Labs makes the only serious contender but the 845 is a MONSTER. However, Sound Labs will do custom speakers. The 545 is 24 inches wide. (845 is 40"!) I bet they would make an 8 foot version for you. You are use to a full range line source. Decreasing the height of the speaker will dramatically reduce the size of your image. If you like that presentation (I personally will never give it up) you best stick with an 8 foot speaker. Anyway, An 8 foot 545 would be just four inches wider than my 2+2's, a very nice size with good proportions. |
My Apogee Slant 6's many years ago blew the ribbons, so I got to explore a lot of speakers in the intervening years. My experience/bias meant I hunted speed, imagery and the sound wall of the ribbons. I evolved to a pair of Dynaudio C2 Plats, which unfortunately didn't sit well with my original amps so after a number of combinations I eventually found my end combo with a Supratek DHT pre (adds the warmth and some color), Accuphase A70 (just clean power). So matching new speakers with your existing amps could be a journey. I also run a C22/Mc75's system but too much color with the Dynaudio's so use different speakers with them. I recently had my Apogee Slant 6's fully restored, new ribbons and rebuilt bass speakers and fell immediately in luv' with them again, now being driven by an Ayon pre and Radford STA-25, and never sounded better. I also picked up a pair of Apogee Slant 8's cheaply and not much between them and the Dynaudios (a bit more dynamic), I rotate them every couple of months. So my 30 year old speakers compete very well with my modern speakers. Maybe hold onto your Acoustat 1+1's, you never know how you might feel in a few years. So sometimes what you have and luv' are for a reason, but then again its the journey that's fun, but can be frustrating as well. Enjoy your search. |
I've heard but never had the 1+1 but did own 2+2 with medallion transformers driven by both Threshold SA4e and Krell KSA100S. Source was a Theta Miles directly into the amp. The system did a lot of things right and was able to pull out a lot of inner detail due to the huge radiating area. Imaging was not a strong suit. Yes, the Acoustats threw up a huge soundstage, and that was great for some music (Tangerine Dream in particular) but sounded overblown and ridiculous with other fare. I moved on as audiophiles are apt to do and have been through numerous speakers. I have a pair of custom/DIY loudspeakers that have the same appearance as the Legacy Focus with Eton drivers. Standing a little over 5' tall, they put up large soundstage, actually they fill the room with sound and completely disappear. In the dark or with eyes closed, I really can't tell where the speakers are. Images are properly sized, dynamics can be fantastic depending on source/amp/cables. Again, these aren't actual Legacy Focus and may be better with the Eton drivers but it may be worth the effort to hear real Legacy Focus loudspeakers. They are quite efficient so you'll have plenty of power on tap and you won't need subs. |
m-db I got a kick out of your response. LOL So last night I showed my wife some pictures of the Spatial line and asked if they were acceptable esthetically. (While she enjoys the music, I don't want her cringing every time she walks into the living room, right?) She said they were okay, no strong objections, but that she preferred the current 1+1s believe it or not. Go figure! Part of my dilemma is living in the Seattle area there are precious few dealers of hi-end gear up here. I just noticed that Definitive carries Maggies. I may have to swing by and give a listen. |
I used the Acoustat service guy, if this the us one in Florida. He did an excellent job on my TNT-120 MOS-FET power amp. If you are really wanting a very good stand mount monitor, look into the .ATC line of consumer monitors. They are a good value, excellent detail and sound stage. Their flat impedance curve gives them excellent linearity. I have the SCM 19s and am very satisfied. |
@
tuberculin, I think FL is where the company was originally located? In any case, not that I don't appreciate the tip thank you, but shipping from Seattle would likely be twice what the speakers are worth. I'm not known especially for my rational decisions but even I have to draw the line somewhere. ;^) |
Last night my wife and I sat by candlelight and listened with some adult beverages (Macallan12 for me, Zaya rum for her) and let Amazon lead the way. Although it was the Diana Krall channel, they play a bit of everything from Ella to Nat King Cole to Sinatra along with some modern stuff like Krall, Gregory Porter, Norah Jones and Jamie Cullum. Okay, so you guys will likely flame me for this... but as I sat there in the dark listening, it occurred to me that I don't really need or even want to swap out my speakers for something else. Ella was there in the room. When I'd open my eyes I'd see that the speakers weren't where my ears were telling me they were, such is the soundstage. I'm still, after all these years, utterly delighted with these speakers! So, I thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions. (I'm still intrigued by the Spatials.) OTOH, sometime soon I'll be going to FL to pick up my late pop's rig: Jadis, B&W Matrix (yes, the ugly ones) VPI and more... That'll be a whole new adventure! Cheers all and thanks again... |
I am much like you; I had some fabulous, at least they were in their day, tower speakers from the 70's which I purchased while in college and working as a campus 'rep' for an audio retailer in the Boston area. They cost me dearly in the day. They were finally killed by a lightning strike which took out my entire system and I almost died with it as my beloved vintage, walnut speakers were gone. I ended up visiting a high end audio retailer who had multiple floor levels of systems set up with dozens of very cool speakers, some which were extremely expensive. I spent an entire day at this store, starting with the lower end stuff working my way up to the extreme and with each change, I could hear in real time the subtle and not so subtle differences. I finally decided that the Bryston Middle T speakers which were around $5K were by far the best bang for the buck. These speakers were 95% of the best ones he had and twice as good as any of the lesser ones on hand. The sales guy smiled and said that he didn't really want to push me in any direction, but after I voiced my opinion he said he agreed and the Bryston's were among his most favored speakers in the store. They let me take them home for a demo and I had them for around a month. I just fell in love with this speaker..... fast forward> I was so impressed with them that I ended up the phone for quite a long time with James Tanner at Bryston who was the guy behind their speaker project. I asked him what the Model T would do in my situation and he said it is very similar to the Middle T only a major does of steroids have been injected. That was it, I had to have those and I ended up with the highest level of Model T which is a triple input fully active ready speaker, only I am using the Bryston PX-1 external crossovers which are beasts! These are full mil spec construction internally with air core massive inductors, super duty PC boards and massive components all designed to be used with the Monster Bryston 28B3 monoblocks which are 1800 watts per channel at 4 ohms. My Model T's in Santose Rosewood are around $13K for the pair and if you can afford that budget, I would order them! They come with a 20 year warranty from Bryston. If that is out of budget, I would look at some of the amazing speakers at Axiom Audio in Ontario. They make amazing stuff too and in fact Axiom is the partner with Bryston; they build all of Bryston's speakers. The main differences are the woofer drivers of all of Bryston's big floor towers use 8 inch woofer drivers and Axioms are 6.5 inch. If you don't have a monster listening space, you probably don't need the 8 inch triple woofers like my Model T's. Also if you get anything from Axiom, they are sold direct to the end user from the manufacturer which eliminates a dealer mark up and you get a 30 day trial period; if you don't like what you ordered, they will even pay the return shipping! That is a a great opportunity in my opinion. Anyway, that is my input for you to consider. |
A long time ago in a far distant galaxy I replaced 4 Fisher XP7 speakers and a mid level Marantz integrated (PM500 I think, I was long ago) with a pair of Acoustat 1100's and a Sumo Andromeda 2 amp.. Our first job after room placement was to re-pack the woofer boxes to tighten up the base. Then a bit of attention to room acoustics, cables and the like. They were great and could play loud enough to make your rock and roll ears bleed. Along the way I about 15 years ago I found another Sumo 2 digits away in serial number, built same day, same parts bins and now bi-amp, one amp a side, one channel to the woofer and the other to the panel. MOSFET amps and Sumos have a synergistic love affair going on when cabled right. I audition components from time to tie... tube amps, different pre-amps, CD players, from my Audio Research LS 2B MKII (remote) and Sony XA 5400 ES, the pre is same time period of the same time period as the Acoustats, now undressed, the CD newer but still quite old in the digital world. The problem is everything I listen to in a system under about $175K or more sounds like garbage. You may be able to pry those Acoustats out of my hands but not while I'm still living. As far as I know there is a guy in Fort Lauderdale who still repairs and does mods to them. Mine are not going anywhere while still working. |
Agree with @pinwa & @rodman99999 on the Spatial Audio Lab line of speakers. Here’s a couple of links the are straight forward review of the Sapphire M3s . https://www.spatialaudio.us/ Product site. https://youtu.be/YHv9wBB3bjw Review https://youtu.be/pbH9wWr-Xrw Sound clips with commentary. Yes I know, can’t expect any serious listening on YouTube sound. Just thought it would help get you acquainted with the speakers. |
I would advise you to think long and hard before you let go of your 1+1s. Back in the 1980s I owned and loved a pair of 2+2s, but foolishly sold them in order to try to do better. It took me nearly thirty years to find speakers I liked better than the 2+2s with sub woofers. Only after I built and spent eleven years modifying and improving my present fully horn loaded, triamplified, DEQX DSPed DIY speakers did I get better sound quality than the 2+2s. |
