Paradigm Persona series

Got them for my speakers and they are nice...but way to expensive.

Not at all.  A friend just got them for his center and 5F fronts.  They're super nice, and make no detectable difference in sound.  They're stupidly expensive, but definitely the nicest grilles I've ever seen/felt.

Anyone use the Persona with grills? Does it mess up the sound?

Thanks. Without knowing more, I'd like the option of leaving the 509 on, 24/7, which I don't do the the 590. It's really a non-issue, and I love the 590.

@builder3   It was a tough decision.   My dealer mentioned that the 509 has a slightly better pre-amp section than the 590.   With either model, you cannot go wrong.

Happy New Year to you!

https://i.imgur.com/slYBQbo.jpg

Here is the ANSI/CEA 2034 measurements of the Paradigm Persona 3F, measured in an anechoic chamber.

As you can see, this is a very deliberately tailored sound signature that resembles a typical British speaker like B&W than the traditional Paradigm sound signature. It seems to me a deliberate tonality change this generation from the Signature line, perhaps for economic reasons.

Below are the Magico A3 and Revel F228BE which have a more traditional NRC-based approach sound-signature wise:

https://i.imgur.com/hiGeBXK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/R3prT8T.jpg

greginnh303 posts12-31-2018 5:02am@brrgrr I have owned the Luxman L-590AX Class A integrated (not MK II). It is a wonderful, full featured integrated. I went on a huge trek to see what I could find to better that integrated. I tried Esoteric F05, Accuphase E-470, Accuphase E-600, Ayre AX-5 Twenty, Gryphon Diablo 300 and came back to Luxman-509X.

I take it you liked the new 509X more than the 590 MkII, Greg?
I don’t see myself ever spending the money, but I’d very much like to hear the Persona 3F’s driven by my L-590AX.
Happy New Year,

mr_m"Sounds like judge, jury, and executioner..."

This is a very well considered, reasoned, and articulated observation as to the content, objective, and nature of some posts here  and that is why alleged abuses of Audiogon policy should be brought to the attention of the group's moderators who in their sole, solitary, and final judgement shall assess, decide, and determine whether such allegations have truth, merit, or validity and will then establish the appropriate official response based upon they're investigation, review, and inquiry.

Sounds like judge, jury, and executioner......:-)

oddiofyl"You must be the other half of audio doctor..."

I am not involved, affiliated, or associated with Audio Doctor in any way at all in fact I do not even live in New Jersey or the US although I have travelled to your country on business on multiple occassions. 

Alleged abuses of Audiogon policy should be brought to the attention of the group's moderators who in their sole, solitary, and final judgement shall assess, decide, and determine whether such allegations have truth, merit, or validity and will then establish the appropriate official response based upon they're investigation, review, and inquiry and it is improper, inappropriate, and unwarranted for individual users, posters, or members of the group to call for action outside of a formal inquiry and in this instance the accusation, charge, and complaint against Audio Doctor is in my opinion unwarranted, without basis and unjust.

You must be the other half of audio doctor....

oddiofyl "Boycott Audio Doctor  for using these threads to sell goods and services"

Alleged abuses of Audiogon policy should be brought to the attention of the group's moderators who in their sole, solitary, and final judgement shall assess, decide, and determine whether such allegations have truth, merit, or validity and will then establish the appropriate official response based upon they're investigation, review, and inquiry and it is improper, inappropriate, and unwarranted for individual users, posters, or members of the group to call for action outside of a formal inquiry and in this instance the accusation, charge, and complaint against Audio Doctor is in my opinion unwarranted, without basis and unjust.

If you are in the NYC area come hear my Vandersteen model 5s.  Just bought the model 5As so I will be selling the 5s cheap.  They sound amazing.  Can't wait to hear the difference. Happy listening

@brrgrr  I have owned the Luxman L-590AX Class A integrated (not MK II).  It is a wonderful, full featured integrated.  I went on a huge trek to see what I could find to better that integrated.   I tried Esoteric F05, Accuphase E-470, Accuphase E-600, Ayre AX-5 Twenty, Gryphon Diablo 300 and came back to Luxman-509X.  

If you can arrange for an in-home demo, I am sure you will be amazed!

I have a friend who sells the Luxman gear and loves it for the right situation (just like anything, it has to be matched properly).  I still own an old Luxman tuner (70's). I enjoyed the separates when in Japan years ago.

Anyone have any experience with the new Luxman Class A integrated amps?  Specifically, the L-590xaMk 2 ?  Also the L-509 if anyone has tried them,,The T+A interests me, but they are damned expensive..

As you guys know we are big Persona dealers. Djones comments are mirrored by our findings.

We set up last night Persona 3f first on a Naim Uniti Nova sounded very good, but not amazing then switched to the higher end Naim Nac 272 250Dr combo a $13k set and boy did the speakers come alive.

The setup sounded like a much more expensive rig. The Naim has a tight punchy bass, a warm midrange.

If you want to be amazed listen to this combo.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

I was in a showroom about a week ago and listened to the small  persona B with a McIntosh amp streaming tidal through a node2 and to be honest I was surprised how good it sounded not bright at all and the bass from that little speaker was amazing for it's size.

Hello,

I have Paradigm Persona 9H with Triode TRX-M845 SET amps and i can assure you this setup is not bright...natural sound and a fantastic controlled bass.
ctsooner is always bashing Paradigm speakers...sincerely i don´t know why.

Try a Omega Super Alnico Monitor , single driver truth .

In all the speaker threads I've read here (maybe not enough yet), I've never seen any mention of what I would think would be a very important factor. How good is the owner's hearing? I mean, it's not like our hearing remains constant throughout our lives. Mine certainly isn't what it once was, and I suspect a brighter speaker is what I need to hear some of the material that I otherwise might not. I doubt if I'm alone here.

The major problem with the Persona is just plain physics. I’ve always said they should’ve used the 4" mid from the center channel with the rest of the lineup instead of the 7" midrange.

A 2.4KHz crossover with a 7" driver is just too high, and will cause a hole in the sound radiation profile of the speakers in the mids, which you can see in sound and vision measurements, consistently across all models the 1-2KHz range is scooped. Now I understand WHY these speakers crossed over high, generally retail brands do this reduce costs for warranty coverage because lowering power input to the tweeter significantly reduces the chances of a blown tweeter, and most speakers are blown due to overdriven amplifiers which overloads the tweeter. But really 1700-1800Hz is a much better place to cross over with a 7", giving a generally good trade-off between directivity and power handling.

https://www.soundandvision.com/images/717parad.meas.jpg

This matched my own listening experience while a owner of the Persona B. There was no heft or dynamics in the midrange. They are a little on the brighter side but no brighter than other high end brands like TAD or B&W.

ctsooner - I disagree anything I stated was in mean spirit . This is not the first Persona thread I have read where you go on and on how you don't care for Paradigm Persona . You are trying to talk someone out of a brand based on your preferences . The Personas are like any other speaker out there in regards to if people like or dislike them . So I am trying to understand why you are trying to stop anyone from considering them ? Because you found them bright ? I find Vandersteen to sound dull and would not consider any of their models , but I do not feel the need to go on threads and state that opinion . 

BTW, I've heard many Rockports in many systems and rooms and never not liked them.  Some of my fav's are Vandy 7 mk2, Rockports and Tidal's.  Also enjoyed Magico's for the first time.  M3 I think they were.  You have lot's of great choices out there in the price range you are playing in.

Maple,your post was actually kind of mean, but whatever.  Not bashing, just sharing my thoughts. I've always told folks to go listen.  Especially at this level.  Many like that sound and they are selling well I"m sure. I'm happy for Paradigm. I have owned a pair of their speakers for years now.  Kids use them for dorm room. No animosity. 

pwhinson
I enjoyed reading your thread here. We both know that replacing those 2.4s is going to be a very tall order. Since you are in a larger room/space, consider the Thiel CS 2.7 or 3.7 for best effect and outcome. I look forward in seeing you back in the Thiel Owners thread.
Happy Listening!

pwhinson,
After being around this hobby for a little while I've grown to regret fighting with people over something so subjective. Component choice is about preference, not absolutes where one component will be universally praised. You need to develop thick skin in this hobby, because no matter what you own someone will criticize it. That being said, I've heard  Paradigm 7Fs and submit they weren't excessively bright. Remember you are listening to a system, not just speakers. Finding a good dealer should allow you to build a "system" to your liking. My advice is to listen to as many speakers as you can within your price range and let your own ears decide. 

Op . I really think you should disregard ctsooners negative response to the Paradigm Speakers . I have noticed he is quick to speak of how he disliked them every chance he gets . I wonder why he feels he must impart his dislike every chance he gets . You couldn't pay me to own Vandersteen speakers he so greatly endorses . Ctsooner , are you on some kind of Paradigm bashing mission ? . OP , Listen to speakers and come to your own conclusion 

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I have heard enough about the overall tilted up balance on the Personas to discern that particular problem might be something that has to be dealt with by Paradigm. Those references are literally everywhere. I think I’ve now removed them from consideration for various reasons...that might change if I get an opportunity to hear them but I’m not going to seek out that opportunity. Rockports are particularly interesting to me, as are the Revel Salon 2 and Studio 2, the revels as possibly a good shot at the best compromises made with regard to design and technology. I love the technology and care that goes into the manufacturing of the Rockports. Again, I’m pretty early in this game ... just trying to zero in on speakers I want to seek out for opportunities to audition. One thing that appeals to me about the Revels is that they are everywhere used at reasonable prices...I don’t think that necessarily means people trade out of Revels but rather that they are simply made and purchased in greater volumes than many others. Open to other comments re Rockport and Revels (and anything else you might want to add). The one thing I perhaps didn't make clear is that I still LOVE the micro (and macro) detail the Thiels provide but I moved into a larger house and a larger listening room 2 years ago and I'd like something that can be driven a bit louder than the Thiel 2.4s.  Pass on the power amp side and an Aesthetix Janus for the preamp.  Thanks to all.

Yea, he's like I am, very very selective.  I haven't heard their other models, but I bet they are also very good for their prices.

Funny story.  My buddy Matt just got back from the NYC Show and told me how much he liked the Harbeth anniversary 40.2....those are the ones I just posted about loving.  He totally agreed with me.  Funny as we both are hard on other speakers.  We know what he like.  The other thing that happened yesterday is that I heard a story from a good friend.,  They were all being shown the 9H's and to a person they had the same reaction and it wasn't positive is all I'll say.  Again, maybe all of these guys (who are in the industry and have no dog in the fight if you would) have the same hearing problems.  I found that interesting though.  Again, if you like the sound, that's awesome, but this is why I read and enjoy reviews and don't listen to them.  (and yes, I have posted links about Vandy 7' s and then Quatro's getting best in show reward for most shows and the Quatro got a best for the money or something like that), but I even posted that I don't go with reviews.  

Just interesting stuff.  

Let clarify, because I now own speakers that are bigger than the 30.2: a traditional loudspeaker design bigger than the 30.2 wouldn’t work for me. The Jbl 4367 is far from a “traditional” design with its large woofer and unique horn

@ctsooner 
 I agree with what you said about Harbeth. I don’t know what Alan Shaw’s deal is (warped ears perhaps) but the Harbeths scale with gear and most especially the room. I owned the 30.2 for a few months it was by far the best speaker I ever owned before I heard the JBL 4367, but it was limited by my room which is too small for anything at the m30 series size.

as you said, everything sounds different in room. But I would not recommend Harbeth 30.2 in a room smaller then 40m3

"No CT you can post whatever you like"

Gee, thanks for the permission.  Appreciate that.

Dave, you don't read all my posts, so your statement holds no water.  You are a dealer and are using this forum to sell your products.  I guess that's ok with AG, but since you are selling, I and others take anything you post with a grain of salt as your income depends on what you post.  It's as simple as that.  

Many of us laugh at your posts about what you like and don't like.  You don't get out and listen like many hobbyists.  Maybe at a show and maybe some folks bring gear in for you to audition at your house/store, but in the end, I bet you haven't heard the newest Steen's, possibly Wilson's, Magico's etc....  You just aren't able to.  As anyone will tell you, show conditions are not a way to make any true impression about how things sound.  

YOU (not the we that you always post) can say what you want about how YOU categorize speakers or any other piece of equipment for that matter, but that's to your ears etc...  There are plenty of speakers that have as much resolution as the electronics can feed them and are not as demanding as you say.  To say that a speaker that is easy to set up (is that what drop and plop means? Trying to figure that one out) so it's not high resolution is painting with the broadest of brushes and highly unfair to many great designers.  

You mention Harbeth's.  I promise you that you haven't heard the latest Steen's and you haven't heard the newer Harbeth Anniversary 40.whatever it is.  I got to hear them with the newest top MSB electronics, including their new multi box DAC served by a simple Aurender N10.  Power cords were Audioquest Dragons and Hurricane's going through the Niagara 7000 power deal.  The room was as good as any room at a store that I've ever heard.  It ws magical.  A bit on the warm side of neutral as most Harbeth's are, but not 'warm' in the audiophile sense.  It had as much micro and macro detail as anything I heard in your store (Legacy and Persona).  As with any great speaker they scaled with better products feeding them.  The set up was very simple and easy, so I guess they are drop and plop???  I could easily live with that set up and love them daily.  

My Ears and Mike's system (Sarasota's Suncoast Audio)

No CT you can post whatever you like, the point is that your always stating that Vandy model whatever is always the best sounding, time coherent, blather is just like the Tekton guys always extolling their speaker as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

We have heard Personas sound good, and bad, and just okay, the point was that the Vandy 7 which is probably the only Vandy speaker that if we were ever to sell Vandy we would actually really get behind in this setup sounded okay not good not bad but not inspiring enough for the price of the speaker and quite frankly the room was way too big for the Vandys was probably part of the problem. 

We also acknowledge that the Persona will not be for everyone, any uber transparent speaker will ruthlessly show you flaws and are very setup dependent,  over the years we have catagorized loudspeakers as uber high resolution camp which are super demanding, vs drop and plop speakers which usually sound decent to good no matter what you play them with, Harbeths are a perffect example, so are Vandy 1C and 2Ce.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Dave, thanks for posting my thoughts and views.  Makes it easier for me to post as I guess I don't need to anymore.  I posted my thoughts and views, but you decided to tell me what I am going to post and then even told me why 'I' am wrong, lol.  

I stand by what I hear and what my personal thoughts are.  I have no dog in the fight as you do, so folks can make their own judgements as they should anyways.  I get to hear a lot of gear.  Show conditions are just that.  Most systems don't even sound good until Sunday.  This is why I have never been to a 2 channel show.  

As for anyone making a point about something being great because of a review, again it's just someone's opinion.  Fun to read and I do love to read them.  Still that argument over anything, including gear I love and or own, doesn't mean a thing.  

BTW, I don't like warm music.  I like accurate music in my own room.  You don't have to have a hot running speaker for it to be detailed and give you micro and macro detail.  Just because you like something also doesn't mean it's great.  You make many posts as though you know more than I or others and honestly you don't.  We all have our own ears to listen to make up our own minds on systems and matching.  

Thanks for no longer making posts telling me and others how I feel and what I like adn here.  Thanks.  Hope you are well.

Obviously there are many variables that can alter and/or detract from any speakers presentation. Audio shows and brick and mortar stores offer variables in spades just like end users listening rooms.

I never fail to be impressed by just how well many show participants manage to get great sound in such dramatically unfamiliar environments and in such a short amount of time.  

I strongly considered Paradigm's all inclusive design and manufacturing when I purchased pairs of their speakers. I think it safe to assume that their factory representative, and most dealers, would have the listening chops to know when their product is under preforming.

The Persona line has been out long enough for those periodical reviewers who are constantly accused of biasing on the positive side of their advertisers as well as folks like us. The combined continuity of those listening experiences is undeniable.

“Too many systems sound like systems and not like real music, real live music especially brass instruments, and high hats tend to sound bright and harsh, go to a live wedding and see if you can tolerate the sound of a live band with horns and brass, especially when played a normal room size and distances.”

Why are you still saying this a year later... I’m convinced you don’t know what real music sounds like based on this comment that you’ve said before as well.

The Personas and Mcintosh amps are a terrible match. Flat and   Uninvolving. A lot of dealers have them matched up together. 
I have had friends over that have Martin Logan Clx, Wilson Sophia, Merlin Mxm Black magic  and they love the Personas . They absolutely kill the Magico S3 that I had. The cabling made all the difference in the world.  Cerious Technologies Matrix is a world class cable that nobody knows about  I am in north of Detroit a few miles of anybody would like to hear what a properly synergized pair really sounds like. 
The speaker gets great reviews that has a midrange that is up there with the best. 
To say you have heard speakers that cost 5% of the cost of the Personas sound better is just plain ignorant. 

As per Ctsooner comment about Rockport, totally disagree, and we like Rockport speakers alot. 

Over the years we have heard numerous Rockport setups some where very good, while others were extremely disappointing which did not do justice to the loudspeakers. 

A really transparent speaker system will show exactly how it is being setup and driven, the Rockport is voiced warmer then the Personas so CT who likes warmer loudspeakers will find them more enjoyable no matter what the setup is as the speakers will usually sound good no matter how they are setup. 

Certain loudspeakers designs will sound good no matter what the setup is while others are very picky and tend to sound more bad then good unless all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed.

Heard the Vandy 7 at Capital Audio Fest and they sounded very good but were hardly a contender for any best sound awards at that show. 

Now I know that CT is going to say they are the greatest speakers in the world and when they are setup correctly will blow away the Alexx that I heard at the show, which in our opinion was one of the best setups at that show and we sell none of the gear in that room by the way!

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Kosst,

Sorry you feel that way but there are way too many positive reviews and people who feel the way that we do that the Personas are amazing loudspeakers and represent some of the best sound for the money at their price points. 

We have had a client come to our store demoed the Persona 9H and he said the system was spooky who real it sounded and was totally blown away by our setup. 

I will give you a similar demoing experience. Personally we feel that the current Wilson lineup are good but not exceptional loudspeakers and whose models are ridiculously overpriced for the money in terms of what you are actually getting for the price point in terms of driver quality and technology. 

I have heard many expensive Wilson setups at shows and at stores including one setup that was with XLF, Dagastino, DCS Vivladi and Nordost Odin that system was close a million dollars and it sounded absolutuly awful heard  that setup in a famous Washington area store. 

Lo and behold heard a similar but less expensive setup this weekend with Wilson Alex, Nordost Odin, Krell mono blocks, Krell preamp and Vpi new $15k table and $8k phono cartridge and it was magical with realistic sized images and a very three dimensional sound stage this system had room lock and was expertly setup and voiced by a very respected setup guru. 

Kosst, the point is polarizing products are polarizing for a reason, if some people love product x while others do not, and the reviews are all very positive then it is totally possible the store, doesn't know what they are doing with the product or that even if they are setup correctly the product isn't for you.

Some people look for a musical setup that we would say sounds muted or unnaturally warm and romantic, while others crave detail, speed and articulation that real live music has. 

Too many systems sound like systems and not like real music, real live music especially brass instruments, and high hats tend to sound bright and harsh, go to a live wedding and see if you can tolerate the sound of a live band with horns and brass, especially when played a normal room size and distances. 

Please describe the size of the room and what gear this store was using. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ