Hello,
What is the rest of your equipment?The bass will start at the source/preamp then the amplifier and from there the speakers.
Moving them out in the room will probably lean up the bass..maybe make it sound a little tighter and cleaner. The 100s need two things to produce visceral impact..if that is what you seek.One..an amplifier with high current.Two...a source that can pass it on to the rest of the chain. |
My system is as follows:
Arcam CD-72
VPI 19jr
Vintage Kenwood tuner
Nak CR-4A cassette
Conrad Johnson PV10A
McCormack DNA-1 Deluxe
Paradigm Studio 100 v.2
The last three items on that list are the newest additions. Before those I had Adcom gear. I'm real happy with the Cj pre.
Between the source components and the CJ pre I have Kimber PBJ. Between the DNA and the Paradigms, I have unterminated runs of Tributaries SP-4. I'm using the stock jumper plates. |
I believe your problem is most likely the preamp. As I recall, the CJ PV10A is a very warm preamp with a rather flabby bass. (It can sound great, though, with the right gear.) I also had a warm tube preamp with suboptimal bass response and replaced it with a MF A3cr preamp (one of the better preamps I've ever owned, great for the money). The bass tightened and extended considerably compared to the VAC CLA-1 it replaced.
Obviously you also need to play with speaker positioning to get what you feel is optimal sound. It also doesn't cost any money. But if you're still not happy with the bass, see if you can borrow a different preamp.
Good luck,
Michael |
What part of the bass is to lean?...it can't all be MIA. I agree with your AA friend. If you have a test cd and a SPL meter you can get a better idea of whats going on.
The mid-upper bass may be lean because of placement in or near a null point...ie, 1/4 wavelength from the wall.
Or, you could be sitting at a null point. Sometimes moving your speakers and, or...yourself just a few inches can make a pretty big difference...try placing the speakers at 4ft out and slowly move them to 5ft...somewere in that range should work very well IMO.
Dave |
Well current doesn't seem to be the problem. You also may want to check your speaker leads. If one speaker is running out of phase it will kill the bass in your system. The 100v2 has plenty of bass for most rooms and too much for others. It's not unheard of the speakers being wired mistakenly out of phase.Play with swapping your positive and negative speaker cable leads to hear if your bass output improves.Do this one speaker at a time.Listen in between each swap.You may want to try different tubes or preamp also. As suggested above, the problem maybe the preamp itself. |
As I recall, the PV10 Inverts phase, so you need to reverse your speaker cables at EITHER the amp or speakers. Hope this helps. |
Yes, make sure to reverse the speaker cables (+- to -+). But I second Michael. CJ PV10A is a great sounding pre-amp, but it has a reputation for too soft bass. Not uncommon for tube pre-amps in that price range. The PV10B improved the bass.. but it still wouldn't compare to the bass of a SS pre of the same caliber.
But you never know, it might be your room. Take a day and play with placement, yes, I have also heard taking the speakers further out can increase the bass, but it all ultimately depends on the dynamics/acoustics of your room.
Good Luck |
I have also expierenced a lack of bass out of my Studio 100s. After swapping out everything, I narrowed it down to my Monster bi-wire speaker cables being the weakest link. I made up some new cables using some inwall 14/4 and it was a huge improvement. I even have replaced an old Denon CD player with a new Jolida JD100 with little improvement compared to the cable swap. Strange. Any suggestions on cables for good bass output with the 100's? I was considering DH Labs Q10. Please let us now how it works out. |
Getting more bass from any speaker in any room does not always mean siting it close to the wall behind it. The room mode that reinforces bass is where the speaker (and yourself) needs to be. This will take some patience and legwork on your part to find out where it is. In my room it is 6-7 ft. from the front wall, with me approx. 10 ft. from the plane of the speakers. Putting the speakers 2-3 ft. from the wall results in LESS bass. Before you start doing the "equipment shuffle", you need to play around with placement. And don't be afraid to go against conventional wisdom.
Oz |
Let me go on the record that I have never heard the 100v2s sound good close to the walls.The bass was always sloppy and boomy. This it with the use of at least 6 different amplifiers and several different preamps and sources.Also setup up in 4 different rooms. They sounded best 3 to 6 ft from the wall. This didn't increase the bass it made it more controlled and decreased the bloat.
My definition of better bass is no overhang,being able to follow a solo double bassist through from beginning to end without blurring or drawn out overhang(not easy for most speakers).So my definition of better bass may differ from others.Sources used were a Cary 308,Quad 99 CDP,Rega Planet,Sony DVP 7700,Arcam FMJ DV27, Denon 2900,Denon 3910 and Denon 1710.
Out of all the amplifiers that were hooked to the 100v2 that I've heard. The Cary V12 sounded the most controlled and musical... surprisingly.When used with a Cary tubed preamp the sound became too soft and indistinct.A Linn Control solid state preamp was much better at transients and bass.I've also heard them on a Rotel RMB-1095, McIntosh 7106,McIntosh 206,Adcom limited edition 585(monster),Adcom 5802,Adcom 5503, Adcom 5500 modified by Musical Designs and a 200 wpc Optical Class A Denon.
The big 585 Adcom had the best bass control. The Macs had better control than the rest but the Cary still got the bass under control with the lowest wattage while staying musical.The 5503 and 5500 had very sloppy bass on this speaker pulled 4 to 5 feet in the room. Pushing them close to the walls only made things worse.It isn't easy to get good bass(my definition of good bass) from this speaker as a whole. Now if your looking for boom that's a different story.
Also I'm not trying to put the speakers down.When setup right with the proper gear they are fun to listen to.
It's just more work than I want to deal with.;-) |
I agree with Gmood1 about the positioning further out into the room. I've only ever heard them with the Anthem MCA-20 amp and bass is pretty decent but not what it would be with a better amp. I found one of the things that improved bass greatly in my system was the addition of aftermarket power cords - I'm using Virtual Dynamics Audition series on amp, pre, & CD. BTW I keep my speakers about 4 to 5 feet out into the room. In addition to improving bass quality it improves imaging. |
I too have the Studio 100's v.2 and I've been please with them - never forgetting their strengths (and their weaknesses). I run mine via a Parasound HCA-2200 (I use my Yamaha RX-Z1 as a pre-amp for the parasound). 250wpc - Parasound / 130wpc - RX-Z1. My listening room is 19x23x9. The 100's are 5.5 ft from the back and side walls. I sound treated throughout - especially the back 1/2 of the room. Between my 2 power sources, I noticed the more power, the more refined the bass. I also ran the 100's from a Yamaha M-80 - with good result, more analytical than the Parasound, but still acceptable. Do you by chance have a speaker size selector? IE: Small/Large? Are your speakers set to large? Have you applied any sound treatment(s)? Are you biwiring? Is there power going to both sets of cables (if so). Are your straps in tact if not? Is your bass control NOT turned down? These are just basics. I believe in starting simple, then gradually getting more technical.
For me though, volume is necessary for the studio 100's to come alive. Not so much 'loud,' but instead, turned-up (a pretty good thump!). 2nd, I've noticed the 100's need SPACE to breath. Without it, they can disappointing (IMHO). Power - running solely from the RX-Z1, they didn't sound as dynamic (the Yamaha too made them sound fantastic, but the parasound gave them the . . . punch!) - Then again, my mind may have been telling me that, being that I knew consciously, the Parasound was disconnected. :) In closing:
Power
Space
Volume
Connected properly
Operable bass control
Sound treatmet (of some sort - nothing fancy required)
Hope this helps |
Any one have any reviews on these speakers. New owner looking for source and amp combination. Not sure. |
The Paradigm Studio 100v2 are a well built/designed speaker, if I switch them, I'll be listening to PMC IB2i's.
I am apparently one of many who find the 100v2 to lack the ability to produce bass with much authority, which is why I compensate with a Tannoy PS350B to assist with the depth, and it does so quite respectively.
With that being said, I take my hat off to Paradigm for creating such an amazing speaker for such a great price, I picked mine up second hand from a good friend who took meticulous care of them.
I find it difficult to find a great speaker that will reproduce classical/jazz and rock n roll, so two pairs of speakers might be the best solution, depending on ones mood and choice of music.
Even Bob Marelys' bass is effortlessly controlled.
Bryston 4BSST2
PS Audio AC10 Power cables to both Brystons and DAC
Bryston BP26
Bryston MPS-2
Benchmark DAC1-PRE
MIT T2 quad speaker lines
Transparent Opus MM2 IC between all three components.
Mackbook pro plays FLAC through AMARRA via usb to the DAC. |
If you have to pull out a speaker 6ft from the wall to smooth out the bass, you bought the wrong speakers for your room IMO.
I have owned the 100 V2's. They are a bit lean in bass IMO. If polarity is correct, and you played with placement, maybe try a adjustment with your manual eq (25hz, 40hz, 60hz, 80hz) if you have that option. |
You might just need a sub to get the sound that you're after. I was totallyagainst them for quite awhile but now that I have a good sub properly set-up, I'll probably never go without one now. Btw, I got my sub for $350 so it wasn't a large investment. My speakers are studio 60's v5. |
I've owned Studio versions one and wood sided two's. I was driving them with a big Ayre V-1xe by-wired. They were 5.5 feet out from the front wall, 6 feet apart, 1/2 inch of toe in, and spiked.
I now own a pair of used Avalon Eidolons which are hugely more expensive but their presentation shows just how glaringly poor the Paradigm design is.
In the Paradigm price range the PSB Synchrony are greatly more musical, flatter, and have a far less fatiguing upper end.
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-psb-synchrony-ii-speakers-just-out-of-the-box-2012-12-22-speakers-10306-staten-island-ny
For what they are the Paradigm's bass may be their strong point. If all else fails I'd think about a subwoofer. |
I also have the Studio100 v2.
I'm using a Bryston 4B SST2 amp.
Bryston BP26 preamp.
Benchmark DAC2 HGC
Transparent balanced XLR interconnects.
MIT Terminator bi-wire speaker cables.
SVS SB13 Ultra Sub
Blue Circle Noise hounds for power cleaning
The sound potential for these 100 v2's is nothing short of inspiring, personally I find the the quality of the track being played was the key factor in how the speakers revealed their true abilities.
Bob Marley "Could You be Loved" and Dire Straights "Ride Across the River" played back in FLAC format, preferably 24/192 was nothing short of bliss.
As for jazz, Arne Domnerus "Jazz at the Pawnshop" hi rez tracks is truly life like.
My audio room is approximately 18'x25' 8.5ft ceilings. the speakers are positioned in the corners approximately 2.5ft front each wall, they are separated by approximately 12' between them. If I upgrade, it might be a pair of Magnepan 3.7i mated to a pair of Pass Labs XA100.5 |
In case anyone might still be reading this thread, I’ve had Paradigm Studio 100v2s for a long time now ( since new). I’m running them with a Simaudio I5 (70w) integrated fed with a Bluesound Node 2i into a Hegel H20 Dac streaming from Quobuzz. Sounds really, really good. The best sound I’ve ever gotten from them. I’ve got other systems in the house w/ McIntosh, Revel, B&W, Rotel etc so it’s not like I’m just touting what I have. The Paradigm system used to have an occasional hardness to the top end that could sometimes be fatiguing. But the Hegel seems to have cured those nasties and now the system is a real joy to listen to.
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