I owned Infinity Kappa 8 in 1986-1989. I am lately the proud owner of Vandersteen 2ci and a 2wq sub.
I might be stuck 30 years back.
I might be stuck 30 years back.
Owning the speakers you dreamed of 20 years ago
Does speaker technology really change that much? As I'm listening to my Klipsch Heresy's in a bedroom setup, I decided to look up to see what $3k or so could buy me today used and was shocked to see the speakers I used to drool over, when I was done looking at the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition ;), were available for a quarter or less of the money.
Revel Ultima
Sonus Faber
JM Lab Mezzo
And more, are all available to buy used.
Seriously these were speakers I would daydream about. How do they sound today compared to a speaker that you would spend $3k on new or even a few years old? How could these $10k speakers from a time I can still remember, really sound like a $3k speaker? My Klipsch's remind me that speakers even older and cheaper are irreplaceable to me, so why wouldn't I spend $3k for one of my old heroes?
What am I missing here?
Revel Ultima
Sonus Faber
JM Lab Mezzo
And more, are all available to buy used.
Seriously these were speakers I would daydream about. How do they sound today compared to a speaker that you would spend $3k on new or even a few years old? How could these $10k speakers from a time I can still remember, really sound like a $3k speaker? My Klipsch's remind me that speakers even older and cheaper are irreplaceable to me, so why wouldn't I spend $3k for one of my old heroes?
What am I missing here?
76 responses Add your response
I heard B&W 801 Matrix speakers around 1990, fell in lust but they were well beyond my reach at the time, I'd just started a family. Many years later when the overtime was good and I saw a pair locally. When I got them wired up I was slightly disappointed, they were just OK, just not what I'd been dreaming of. I pushed against the wall rolled them out once a month or so. Not long after, I rolled KT-88's tubes into my VTL amps, I had been using Wing "C" 6550's and the 88's turned out to be the touchdown. After years of enjoyment, MY perfect system is now collecting dust. I'm retired and early in the Pandemic, I moved to a cabin and the Battery/Solar power system would be stressed using the VTL's. Thinking about the 801 and the years of enjoyment that system gave me leaves me with a warm smile. |
What I wanted 30 years ago was Acoustat 3+3s but I could only afford 2+2s. I must be lucky as now I have exactly that speaker in a Sound Labs 645-8, that is an 8 foot tall 645 custom made for me under the direction of Roger West. He will make different sizes for anyone if he can. The speakers are built in sections. I have now question they will last indefinitely. As for the sound all I can say is with a good live recording like Waiting for Columbus, if you close your eyes you are better than at the concert. You would easily call it the best seat in the house. The illusion is broken only by the crowd's clamping. I still have a little work to do in the low bass but everything else is right on. |
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The Rise and Maturation of the Tweeter Waveguid alone makes todays speakers much better...and thats just 1 part. Even all you guys old speakers with old lifespans like Klipsch Heritage, Tannoy, BBC monitors, Maggies,Ohms Quads, and JBL...the newer versions of those speaker are far far better, the parts are far more advanced and better with tighter tolerances. Are their great sounding old speakers sure it is....in the majority do they sound better than the newer speakers Hell Naw....most newer budget speakers will walk all over most older midpriced speakers...time keeps marching on... |
The speakers of my dreams thirty years ago was the Apogee Duetta Sigs. They were the closest thing to sounding like real acoustic instruments and true vocals that I heard. They did then and I have little doubt that a properly restored pair (with an adequate amount of quality power and space) would sound as good as about anything on the market today, regardless of price........Jim |
The speakers I wanted close to 20 years ago were the Thiel CS3.7. I had Revel Salon 1 back then and thought the CS3.7 was better. When I was deciding between speakers last year I narrowed it down to a broken down CS3.7 (which needed fixing) or the brand new Yamaha NS5000. I went with the nostalgia factor and got the CS3.7. No regrets on that and plan to keep the CS3.7 as long as the heart is beating. |
16hzlover my Acoustat system is more than 30 years old. Roy Esposito who was one of the tech engineers at Acoustat rebuilds these systems. I've been lucky enough to have my 2 TNT200 Power Amplifiers rebuilt ,upgraded and Monoblocked by Roy. Incredible sound. I'm waiting for my interfaces to be rebuilt and upgraded on my Acoustat Spectra 33's. Keep in mind this system sounded really good before the rebuild after 30+ years. The stuff that's being built today, don't know how they would perform after 30+ years. All in, my 30+ year old system will be around $6k and I would put it up against today's systems costing 5x that amount. |
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Close to that long ago I used 3 way cone speakers driven by bi-amped 45 SETs.The crossovers were complicated by notch filters controlling resonant drops in impedance. It was not the simple matter of using more active filters between the 6SN7 drivers of the 45s to try to simplify the speakers by eliminating passive speaker crossovers to sound even as good as the complicated elaborate passive crossovers. I looked at ribbons and quasi-ribbons and preferred the quasi-ribbons to ribbons which often needed adjustment and replacement to fragile pleated aluminum. I imagined an all magnetic planar speaker system. I discovered Magnepan and they had a new 0.7 which is all quasi-ribbon and only two elements with simple first order crossovers and 4 Ohm impedance throughout the frequency range without need for any crossover circuits to make the frequency response consistent. But you can't drive them with a 45 SET. By coincidence I discovered how simple it is to have a 45 drive an 833A and run the 833A at 1 kV on zero grid bias with a Hammond 1642SE output transformer. This was a perfect match for the power demanding Magnepans. I prefer it to cone speakers costing over $50,000 I have heard demonstrated. |
Douglas_Schroeder. I’ll have to defer to your experience with the latest speakers. I favored ribbon speakers 20 years ago for their speed and resulting resolving power. I can tell you that the model F’s I have resolve as well as any of the fastest ribbon drivers of the day…Piega, VMPS, Eminent etc and have heard them in the same room with Apogee full ribbons and Infinity IRS. You hear every voice in a chorus, can count how many chairs are in the sax section of a big band, and can hear what is going on in the back of the stage as easy as the front. That platinum tweeter is as sweet as any I’ve heard (even better with less putty imho). I wanted to try a pair of King Sound after owning Soundlabs and Maggie’s, but wanted something with more punch and snap. I’m certain/assume there are better speakers than the F’s. Can you get a pair of King Sound or Whispers for $2500? |
No actually 20 yrs ago I never in my WILDEST Dreams Thought nor dreamt I would ever dump my Millennium Tweeter for a WBer. Never sometimes dreams do come true,,even IF you nevber dreamed it would happen Does that make sense?? Millennium = mightmare WBer fulfills my hopes, wishes dreams. There THAT makes sense The WBer Audiophile |
Sweet F all has changed regarding Speakers in the last 20, 30, 40, and even 50 years ! Materials may have "improved" things which goes without saying. But unconventional thinking on how to best reproduce sound hasn't done anything special IMHO. Where are the Bose's, Magnepan's, Tannoy's, Quad's, Martin Logan's (and many others) in today's Audio Marketplace ? Open Baffle isn't a new idea either (and I'm a fanboy) but there's more being done in that area of sound reproduction than anywhere else.WRT to Speakers. We still listen to boxes with an without holes/port tubes/slots/tx lines and so forth. My collection has Bose 901's, KEF 105/3's, a pair of tiny Ohm's, and my Open Baffle Debacles with stacked dual 15" Subwoofers/Woofers (depending on how I drive them). |
It's on my short list, I used to sell Thiel back in the day and loved dealing with them. Used to have a full Thiel 5.1 setup with CS6, MCS1 and powerpoint surrounds. LOVED those CS6's. |
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noir59, you speak of the Ohm Walsh Model F? I refurbished a pair; you may wish to read about it here on the thread I started in regard to resurrecting that speaker. I also wrote about it in my review of the Ohm F5, article found at Dagogo.com Interesting how varied experiences are between enthusiasts! I found the speaker to have the usual engaging mushroom cloud soundstage, but as I worked with it, the performance woefully lacked in resolution compared to contemporary speakers, or even the F5. I had to remove half the dense cabinet material for the speaker to wake up and sound better. Among the speakers I use it is the least resolving. Imo, that driver simply does not have the capacity to render definition as newer speakers. I also owned the ET LFT-8A/B, and wrote at Dagogo.com about the conversion from A to B. Very nice, excellent value speaker. I would concur that these are great values. I would not agree that they perform near speakers that are higher up on the ladder. The performance spectrum at the top end is quite a ways from these speakers' performance. Speakers such as the King Sound King III, Legacy Audio Whisper DSW Clarity Edition, and Aspen Acoustics Lagrange L1 are in a completely different league. I consider the L1 to be a new genre of speaker. See my reviews of all these at Dagogo.com :) |
I had KEF 107/2s that I used with Parasound JC-1s. Really liked the sound, but replaced them with KEF Reference 1s and a pair of Velodyne HGS-15s with SMS-1 bass manager. Have wanted to try 207/2s, but they continue to be pricy and they’re heavy. I have the matching 204/2C center speaker but it doesn’t seem to blend as well with the Reference 1s as it did with the 107/2s. In fact the sound improves without the center channel, but that’s with a Schiit Vidar amp. I’ll try the 204/2C with the JC-1 I previously used with it. |
Lusted after a pair of Ohm F in high school in 1976. Went through Kef, Vandersteen, Thiel, VMPS, Piega, Soundlab, Eminent etc over the years. Bought a 30 year old pair of Ohm 2X0 at a garage sale on a whim, sent the drivers to Ohm to check and balance(the tweeter fuses were blown), and was amazed at the soundstage, bass, and realism they produce. We moved and happen to live 2 miles away from a guy that restores Ohm F’s. Bought a pair and they are, overall, the best speakers I’ve owned! Bass, dynamics, speed, a stage as big as your room will hold, and separation of instruments like no other(an Omni strength?). All for $2500! I still have a pair of Eminent Technology 8b which is another all time great 20th century speaker… still in production. Can be had for $1200-$1500 used.(was always a steal) A fully restored pair of 20th century speakers will cost you less and last as long as a new design. It is the most affordable way to get a full range, high resolution speaker in today’s market.Just be certain you can restore them before you buy! (Anybody restore VMPS 40’s?…another great!) |
Speakers have changed, though not as much as some would have you think. High end of yesteryear certainly hold their own today. Punching bag speakers carry that status because in affect they are junk. Buy revered quality, upgrade the electronic controls and bingo you’ve audio and Quality furniture. Cheers |
Steve59 i like that comparison and that might prove the point of other in that the salon 2’s should sound much better than the originals. Never had a chance to compare but if speaker tech does get better than that would be a way to tell. I guess the point I was trying to make is that compare electrical equipment and things advance in this day and age almost every year but speakers don’t have components that advance as quickly. |
I’ll bite, If $3000 in todays money is being compared to 3k in 2000 dollars, if I consider inflation/ or simply looking how my wages have doubled doing the same job I see your point and considering Hi end speakers 20 years ago the best kef made cost $6k and now the model 5 are $20k so pound per dollar speaker prices have exploded. if you listened to the salons(top of your list) and then the salon 2’s I expect you would appreciate the difference. |
When I was in my twenties I dreamed of owning a pair of Klipschorns. When I was in my sixties I bought a pair of Klipschorns to use the bass bins as part of a DIY horn system I was putting together. Needless to say I listened to them full range. Some dreams are best left unfulfilled. Modern horns and wide range drivers are an area where speakers have improved markedly. |
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Material science has impacted speaker design and manufacture. If you like older speakers - awesome. If you like modding your speakers - awesome. To me, the newer models are extremely good. Are there older speaker that my beat a newer one - absolutely. I’ll stick with my current speakers that folks comment on both the looks and the sound. And for the record I still am a fan of Cerwin Vega. |
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Does speaker technology really change that much?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes and No I've owned some of the very best small size speakers the Seas Thors past 16 yrs,, Now that I own a NEW er developed WBer. I never thought I'd actually own one or even love this design. You see actually this design goes back to Berlin and Chicago, late 1920's. No xover /high sens design. So yes this speaker design did evolve and develope. Whereas the xover types you are refering to , are same old, same old, same old. Same low sens. Same big heavy boxes Same xovers sapping energy from the source same crappy midrange. |
Contrary to most here, the speakers I dreamed of owning 20+ years ago now look like junk to me. Well, that’s a bit of exaggeration but the fact is they don’t appeal to me anymore. It’s more to the looks than sound quality. I recall reading about the JM Labs Mezzo Utopia in the hifi magazines when they were launched. I could only dream of owning it as during that time it was way out of my budget. Looking at it now, they look out of date and ugly, and although I can afford them now they don’t appeal to me anymore. I usually don’t look at hifi that doesn’t look good to me. Sound quality is another matter. The current Utopia range looks great though. Also, it is worth considering that most old speakers would have gone through some deterioration. The drivers and internal parts etc. have life span. Depending on the design of the speakers, the rubber around the drivers may harden with time, and foam used as padding inside the speakers may deteriorate to tiny bits and pieces through time. The foam inside my B&W CDM 1SE decayed as tiny bits flew out from the front port when music was playing. I eventually got the replacement foam installed. The speaker was about 10 to 15 years old when the foam showed deterioration. |
Funny thread, I sold the speakers I dreamed of 20 years ago and technology has advanced so much the ones I have now are better than anything else I've heard even though costing less than the 20 years ago ones. Even less still in inflation adjusted dollars. How's anyone seriously think today's speakers aren't vastly improved in all that time? Good one. Chortle. Snort. |
