In my experience since 2000 there has been a growing serge of home based audio dealers. They are typically somewhat well off retirees that have turned their audio passion into a small business.
As you might imagine some of these guys are single and love to spend time online. Others are married and probably only last a few weeks in the business. The former can be very savvy, and if they are risk takers, they sell product all over the world (as discretely as possible) making lots of money but sometimes getting caught and losing contracts, but sometimes not because in the words of Big Daddy Kane, "I get the job done."
I live near near Boston and grew in in NYC so there were always lots of dealers but the true way to learn is to buy and trade if that's fun to you.
|
You do realize ads are not permitted in the forum section.
|
Lone Crow Audio in Santa Rosa Ca!....North Bay! Brick n Mortar store with a chill environment and plenty of audio systems to view and check out.
Daniel Hertz, HiFi Rose, Accuphase, Audio Research, Tannoy, VPI, REL as well as many others!
Give us a call or stop on by....Tue-Sat!
We are music lovers and have a passion for audio.....come on down...up...or over....and hang out with our Lone Crow crew!
|
I have been fortunate to have 3 dealers I do business with. One in Nashville, one in Denver, and one in Louisiana that send me components to audition in my listening environment. I live out in the country in South Dakota.
I also found the post by @vinylvalet quite interesting and to a degree to be true. Not sure where he gets his or hers economic information from?
Consumers have voted with their money; very accurate Chinese counterfeits at aliexpress for a fraction of the price including many popular cable brands, buying out of state from small mail order dealers to avoid local sales tax, plenty of great gear on the used market with a lot more to come at the next recession, many great kit and DIY options and the recent trend towards high value factory direct with little or no dealer mark up (Schiit, PS Audio). I also believe this relatively small market can’t possibly support all the brands and models available now. Many will fold in the upcoming recession and there goes your warranty, used value and repair options.
|
In a way the secondary market has become the primary market. I have bought and sold many more used items then new. It’s a huge hassle though, I think I liked shopping better before the internet. Things were more expensive but you bought less stuff and held onto it until it broke or became obsolete. The buying process was actually enjoyable and bringing something new home was much more exciting. And you didn’t have to save the box. I mean who among us doesn’t have a pile of empty boxes in their garage? It’s kind of depressing feeling like you never really own your stuff and maintaining it in perfect condition for the next guy.
|
Consumers have voted with their money; very accurate Chinese counterfeits at aliexpress for a fraction of the price including many popular cable brands, buying out of state from small mail order dealers to avoid local sales tax, plenty of great gear on the used market with a lot more to come at the next recession, many great kit and DIY options and the recent trend towards high value factory direct with little or no dealer mark up (Schiit, PS Audio). I also believe this relatively small market can’t possibly support all the brands and models available now. Many will fold in the upcoming recession and there goes your warranty, used value and repair options.
|
@skinzy Thats for sure; disruption is long overdue in this space.
|
@aldermine You are spot on with the manufacturer supported "listening hubs" throughout the US. I have often thought that would be the solution to the paucity of dealers. The reason it won't happen is it would likely kill off the remaining dealer network. This industry is in need of disruption.
|
@aldermine You are correct. I bought a pre-amp from one of the advertisers here and on AudioMart. We had various phone calls about my system and what I was looking for. I was in the middle of an out of state family trip and our calls were after hours to accomodate my schedule.
The exchange of information gave me a sense of confidence and I bought the pre over the phone. It came with a note to call him when i received and was ready to install it, which I did. It was a great experience and a fantastic purchase.
|
I hear you, @ervikingo! But I also understand we aren’t living in a 1970’s economy. The internet changed everything and provided endless means to find the best price, making those who stock product in a store look like they might have missed the train. But I’ll tell you that when you encounter someone who REALLY listens to what you need and finds the right solution for the right price, that’s a deal whether it’s done in person, internet or on a forum like this one. I had such experience with a dealer here (I’m not sure I can mention the name, but you can search the respondents to my original question to find him). He listened to what I was saying; had experience with my current amp and with others in its class and knew EXACLY what I needed. Then he cut me a great deal for a demo product with a handsome exchange. I’ve never met this fellow, but he owns a store in NJ and my hat is off to him for knowing his business, internet or not.
|
Down here in the South East there are a couple but are by appointment only. I’ve been to a couple and frankly they have rubbed me the wrong way but I understand. The market here for most everything is pretty ridiculous with influencers thus hard for them to filter who’s who; who is a tire kicker and who is serious.
I requested an audition to go see and feel some amps. I felt very unwelcomed and there was hardly any interest in trying to win my business. I asked about taking the units home to listen to it and it was a flat no (I offered to leave a guarantee).
Forward a couple of months and a friend was going to visit for a listen of my system with my new amps and was bringing a friend of his. Yes, the friend was the owner of the showroom. "I remember you, man you have a very nice system, why didn’t you buy the amps from me.....".
I have had great experience with various out of state vendors who will give you a money back trial period. Give it a shot.
|
Boston still has a reasonable number of options- Audio Lab and Q Audio in Cambridge, Natural Sound in Framingham, Goodwin's High End in Waltham (really high end $$$), and in nearby Nashua NH Audio Visual Therapy and Fidelis. Best Buy/Magnolia also some decent equipment but the expertise is very hit and miss. There are even a couple of audio repair shops that can actually repair older equipment. It is not like the good old days but there are still good options.
|
@Thomson723 I wish Century Stereo was still around - that was my go-to place. Closed now forever.
|
I just wanted to add Century Stereo of San Jose to the list.
|
@bob70
Loved living in the Boston area for a number of years way back when. Visited the Tweeters and audio stores in the Harvard Square area and around town. Not to mention the great nightlife.
Hope you stick around.
|
@bob70 Sorry you wasted your time cherry-picking a few of my prior posts to suit your narrow and shallow needs. Fact is, I’ve done a lot here to help many people make more informed purchase decisions over many years, which you’ve conveniently ignored here, so I don’t give one damn about what you and your 16 posts think of me. But glad you’re departing, and good riddance.
|
@soix
"Sorry man. I feel like I’ve been a bit of a preachy jerk here."
Your words---from just last month. (You forgot "humorless.") I’ve looked at many of your older posts, as well. It’s your MO. You crap all over people at the drop. You did it to two people right here, before my post. You just invented "location-shaming!" Goodonya!
You’ve corrected people’s spelling, then groaned! Who does that? (Someone who also sucks at punctuation, evidently).
Not to worry. You can have your site back. I’d depart with labeling you a pedant, but I defer to Samantha Bee and Kim Jong Un; feckless dotard.
|
@aldermine There is a nice store in Mountain View, CA right near the CalTrans or was it BART station.
CONTACT - Audio High
I heard the KEF Blades with Chord gear there long ago. That was an amazing sound and good store setup.
|
I deal with the same issues as far as being able to try new gear. I have a couple high end Theater dealers installers in the area. They do Mac gear as well. They have a few rooms set up but that's all they have..the stuff that is set up. No shelves or other equipment on display. No prices on anything and if you're interested in any of the theater equipment it has to be ordered.
I came across a stereo store somewhat local that had nice gear. 6 different setups where one could sit in front of each setup to listen. Choices were pretty much between Mac, Rogue, Arcam, all integrated stuff..speakers were basically Klipsch and JBL unless they had some trade-in/used gear in a corner. No prices on anything and when I asked about price everything seemed a few bucks above average retail.
I've always been of the mindset that if a store doesn't have prices on products I'm in the wrong store. Unless I know exactly what I'm looking for and asking a dealer to order that specific item. If I wanted to compare a few different preamps or dacs or streamers I wouldn't know where to go.
So mostly one in my position has to scour the Internet for user reviews or half truth YouTube videos. Always taking a chance ordering gear from big online retailers, the 50/50 chance whether I'll actually like the product. Returns can be an issue. Especially ordering boutique type stuff. Usually a restocking/reshipping fee. The 3rd time I returned something (in 24months) to an online retailer with initials MD I literally got bitched out by an employee. Nothing was wrong with the $500 product but I just didn't like it. After getting an earful from the employee he said he'd send me a return slip. He never sent it. I ended up just selling it at $100 loss, which is about what I was going to lose on shipping and restocking. A waste of time and money. When it comes to big tower speakers one should have the expectation that they will work for you in one way or another. Few hundred bucks easy to return with insurance.
As others have mentioned Best Buy has actually been easy to deal with. As long as you are cool with most newer mainstream products. The problem is you can only sample what they have set up..which is different at every store in my experience. But they carry KEF, Martin Logan, SVS subs, Klipsch, Wharfedale, Elac, B&W, Arcam, JBL, Technics, Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer..I'm sure I missed a few. They offer a couple higher end brands like Mark Levinson, Classe, and Devialet on line, you just have to have it shipped to store for pickup. Even when they didn't carry the Wharfedale Lintons I was able to order them thru BB by calling their Internet phone number. Even got them to price match another verified Wharfedale dealers prices.
Once upon a time or maybe even still now I feel people looked down or joked about buying gear from BB. Just Polk Klipsch crap and AVR receivers. They have great stuff available usually, no questions asked returns or restocking fees and I can just drive it to any local store to return or pickup stuff, plus no interest financing if you use their card. I don't work for or affiliated with this store, just mentioning it as one of the last local stores that aren't a hassle and have a variation of stuff.
|
@soix yeah, never ending resentments. I hate my neighbor's screaming kids, he hates driving 2 hours for sushi. (He probably hates sushi, his wife loves it)
|
@aldermine - the unfortunate thing about Audio Vision is you don't get all day to audition as much as you want for your $250. I got to audition 3 speakers (plus the ones I brought in as reference) for an hour or so in total. Fortunately, I found something that was just right for me, but others may not be as lucky.
|
Even in large cities, there aren't as many shops. The idea of a dealer network has been successfully challenged by direct sales models, which diminishes the opportunities to audition equipment in a showroom. Some manufacturers at the high end have taken the boutique approach where they showcase their products along with a few partner company products. Bang & Olufsen does this. Magnolia is the largest seller, and even then, there are limited ranges of gear on sale: speakers by KEF, Definitive Technology, Martin-Logan, B&W, electronics by Marantz, Denon, but not McIntosh, at least not everywhere.
|
sorry about the double post. If somebody knows how to remove one of them, let me know we’re doing it for me please, thank you
|
don’t be afraid of stores that also do home theater. Some of the finer two channel stores also provide home theater service. probably part of the formula that has allowed them to survive.
|
don’t be afraid of stores that also do home theater. Some of the finer two channel stores also provide home theater service. probably part of the formula that has allowed them to survive.
|
@yyzsantabarbara Some folks have provided me with the names of Bay Area stores and dealers. Some dealers work from their homes (unappealing) and a few actually have brick and mortar stores but have limited brands. I have a Best Buy down the street with a surprisingly large selection and decent listening rooms. They even have dedicated (but young) staff. Not quite the experience I was looking for. @transnova is indeed fortunate to have so many old school stores near him. But I live in Silicon Valley and you’d think that in the midst of all this technology and wealth one could find a decent, old school store! In fact, the San Francisco Bay Area has 8 million people and you can count on one hand (less than one hand) the number of real audio stores that are not car stereo or home theater oriented.
|
When I was in college (late 70's) tiny State College, PA had seven audio stores. I believe that they are all gone now. I am fortunate enough that the Philadelphia area still has some terrific venues! M¥ longtime favorite, Quest For Sound in Bensalem, PA has reduced hours due to health problems of the owner. You can still see and hear some very nice stuff on Saturdays and by appointment. Audiolab in Morrisville, PA recently opened a new large facility with numerous showrooms and great gear. Both are in Bucks County about 20 minutes from my home and are easy to get to from Philly, North Jersey and New York. Ovation is a beautiful store in Wilmington, DE. One of my favorites is BEK in Allentown, PA. I can get to these in under an hour. Audio and Video Expressions is 1 mile from me and by appt.only as I believe is David Lewis in Northeast Philly. The Best Buy in Plymouth Meeting. PA has undergone the same renovation as described above. Nice new listening rooms and mid-fi to high-end gear. A few other Best Buys in the area still have Magnolia's in the stores, but the stuff is not as nice and it is difficult to actually audition the equipment. They have removed the dedicated salespeople from the Magnolia 's. When driving between one and two hours I can go to North Jersey. Audio Connection in Verona is a fantastic store and I have visited others including the Audio Doctor in Jersey City which is by appt, in the owner's home.
I can get on the PA turnpike and head west to Reading, PA (actually Sinking Spring) and visit the Audio Barn. Hi DEF Lifestyle in Harrisburg, Pa is about 2 hours away. They also have numerous rooms packed with nice stuff.I was able to visit HI Def and Stereo Barn more frequently when my son was in college in Harrisburg, They both became part of my trip when we visited him.
I also travel to the DC area on occasion, where my wife spends time working. I have enjoyed visiting Deja Vu Audio and Command Performance A/V in Northern VA.
I guess that I have been fortunate to live where I do and have the time (in recent years) to travel moderate distances. I do try to support these businesses with purchases.
|
Los Angeles has a lot of audio stores. I was shocked at how many compared to the Bay Area, where I had resided before.
Some of the Best Buy stores near Los Angeles are supposed to carry and demo high end KEF speakers, including the Blade. The Best Buy, walking distance from my home in Santa Barbara, is not one of those high-end stores.
|
August/September this year, I took a drive through Colorado and Utah and visited around 7 stores and manufacturers. Lots of pretty scenery too.
I was looking at DACs, got questions answered, lots of good feedback and knowledge on my trip.
Denver, Boulder, Erie, Ft. Collins, Salt Lake City and Colorado Springs.
Next trip to the south in March, 2024. More stores and an audio show.
|
retail stores where I could hear and compare equipment
You can attend audio shows. I've attended RMAF, T.H.E. Show, Pacific Audio Fest, and AXPONA where I auditioned then purchased demoed speakers.
|
@bob70 ”metropolitanism” as you call it is what allows “ruralism” to even exist, because rural areas can’t support themselves, period. The great irony is that the great rural areas that pride themselves on “independence” completely rely on the federal government and the big cities to exist whereas the larger metropolitan areas pay more into the government than they take. Use your stupid little 😁 emoji all you want, but it doesn’t hide nor negate that absolute financial and mathematical fact.
|
@rick_n
@soix
And then "metropolitanism" reared its ugly head. 😁
|
@soix: Sigh. To be clear, I’m not complaining (at least I wasn't intending to), just summarizing the current situation, which I’m sure I share with many others. If you have a solution, let’s hear it. As for me, I’ve, um, adapted.
I simply research the heck out of any major purchase online & in personal discussions with product designers & company reps. Only after a trusted consensus emerges do I actually pull the trigger. That’s a lot different than the way things worked back in the 70s & 80s, but I’ve always been an under-the-hood kinda guy, so I enjoy the process. And when you’re talking about five-figure purchases it becomes easier to access people who are directly involved with the design & production of candidate products -- and who often have interesting, educated comments on the industry and the tech.
To some extent, the current situation is only quantitatively worse than the way things were when hi-end shops were plentiful. Even hearing components in a showroom didn’t reveal how they would sound in your own system, in your own room. And when it comes to latter-day product classes like power conditioners & cables, that’s now truer than ever. So even if I was surrounded by showrooms, the same problem would still exist, even if in mitigation. And I’d probably wind up choosing to do almost as much research, and flying just as blindly, as I do today.
|
@cundare2 It would appear the entire high end audio industry has a consumer problem; their consumers can rarely touch, feel and hear their products before purchase which wastes untold time, money and, carbon on the part of everyone. The industry is (to my way of thinking) limiting its market to (1) those who don't care how much they spend and buy equipment based on how much it costs and (2) those who buy on the web and are willing to play the return game. Yet the conundrum faced by brick & mortar stores is fully understandable. I get it. But there remains a need to hear the equipment before purchase. A participant in this discussion mentioned a fee a store was charging to come in and listen. While not ideal, I think this is fair. I'd pay $250 for a day of listening if the store had every product I wanted to listen to. And while the problem would remain for those not living in large metropolitan areas, one solution would be for the industry to establish an association that would open listening stores in major consumer hubs. The goal would be to showcase every high end product while simply breaking even on their cost through the imposition of an entrance fee. As mentioned, I'd pay a price to compare all the great equipment and I believe others would also. I'm sure everyone has an opinion on this idea (good, bad or ugly), so let's open the flood gates for discussion...
|
Hey listen, if you live out in the hinterlands or the way outer burbs Goodonya! There are huge benefits to that. But then don’t complain that you have no high-end audio stores. You chose that life/location and as a result you don’t have the best restaurants, audio stores, etc. Deal with it, take the benefits you have, and just stop complaining that the world doesn’t cater to you because you chose to live where you live (and yeah, I realize the OP is in SF but apparently hasn’t done the least bit of research to find audio shops that are in his area — duh). Or go live in a city where they still have some good audio stores and pay the taxes that allow the places in the hinterlands to even exist because they suck much more from the government than what they pay (can u say Wyoming?). Either way, stop complaining. We all know brick n mortar stores are struggling and declining, so just stop stating the painfully obvious. I know, here come the flames, but that’s ok.
|
It’s a problem. For example, there are no high-end dealers with showrooms in my entire state, except for a sound-reinforcement company that has a small room with a few McIntosh components. And unfortunately, traveling out of state is not an option.
So I wind up being forced to buy without any chance to audition, using reviews, spec sheets, and online forums as my only guide. For example, I just ordered an $11,000 amp that I won’t hear until it arrives (and breaks in a month later). I’m sure I’m not alone, since a whole heckuva lot of people don’t live in places like SoCal, NYC, or Boston.
Yes, I know that there are a few dealers that let you try before you buy, but I haven’t had great experiences with that. For one thing, shipping out here is incredibly expensive -- paying return shipping on an amp could easily run $300 -- and the one time I did return an item (some four-figure cables), the previously congenial salesman was so prickly about the return that I swore never to buy from that outfit again. I guess it’s different if you live in a place that’s less isolated.
|
@qwaszxxx - there is that about Audiovision, but the $250 charge will minimize people wanting to waste their time and effort setting things up but who have no intention of buying anything, so I'll cut 'em slack there.
I paid the $250 fee but I knew I was going to buy something, which I did, and the $250 was credited towards that. And the fellow from AudioVision came by with these big heavy speakers when they arrived and set them up for me, so I'm good with them.
|
@bob70
To be fair, I had no knowledge of all of them in the 90s, but I was pretty happy with the store on Boylston. There also used to be Tweeter etc. and I am always amazed how many audio companies started in the Boston area. The acoustic energy is tangible!
|
@grislybutter
I think there has always been one or another in/near Harvard Sq. The best two suburban ones are still there, going on 50 years. I should have had a bumper-sticker: My car and my money go to Natural Sound.
Yes, buying stuff online and sending it back sucks. On the bright side, I found a cool candy store on the convoluted route to FedEx.
|
As an employee of such a store I can tell you that the vast variety of merchandise and easy access to information and opinions about it on the internet, and the ease with which consumers can cross shop, or worse, "showroom*" has made running a B&M store very, very challenging. The gear is costly to maintain for demo, retail square footage is costly, employing motivated knowledgeable people is costly, and everyone thinks they deserve a discount! The growth of direct-to-consumer (cutting out middle man profit) marketing with 14-30 day free home trials and free shipping, etc. has distorted the "value proposition" of traditional retail. No dealer can offer all that without a robust volume of sales and strong margins, and there just isn’t that large a market in any but the biggest cities...or the opposite...where real estate is cheaper, but customer density is low.
*Showroom...the practice of visiting stores to audition merchandise, but following up shopping for the lowest price among outlets not offering showroom facilities.
|
I feel bad for anyone who isn't near a major city. The mid-market shops are gone. I hope the big market showroom don't go the way of internal combustion car engines and manual transmissions.
|
You should be able to tell that we [audio lovers] are a small market. Consider how many of your friends and relatives are interested in your rig. And the smaller populated areas suffer more than metro areas. I am 2.5 hours away from any sort of high end retailer, and even then they are limited in selection.
|
I have 4 good stores within 20 minutes from my home in Portland, OR.
Stereotypes - Echo Audio - Audio Specialties - Chelsea Audio
|
There is also Lone Crow in Santa Rosa. Oh and Lavish Hifi.
|
im in memphis, tn
i got a hifi shop (halford loudspeakers) AND a record store (goner records) down the street. got another record store (shangri-la) 1.4miles away.
ive tried a fwe times but havent found any audiophiles interested in doing an audiophile club
|
It is truly an audio desert here in northwest Florida. It’s really sad. In addition to not having traditional brick and mortar stores, there are very few audiophiles, clubs, get togethers etc. My only contact with people of my ilk are forums like this which I’m glad to be a part of.
|
Those of us in smaller cities are without even a single brick and mortar showroom anymore. Just not enough market in areas with a million people to make it viable.
|
If someone is near Atlanta, there is still HiFi Buys in addition to the Best Buy locations that might have a Magnolia room
|
Brick and mortar retail audio is almost entirely gone, which is unfortunate. You might have better luck at an audio show, like most of us. Try
|
+1 regarding Music Lovers. Good selection, and incredibly helpful staff in my experience, anyway.
Be weary of Audio Vision. They literally charge you $250 if you want to audition any gear and you are only given that money back as a credit if you make a purchase within 90 days. Also, in my three or four times of walking in, each time was greeted with serious attitude.
They do offer a huge lineup of gear though, so if you know what you want and don’t want to deal with the trouble of going through an LA dealer, they might be a worthwhile option.
|
