New Speakers under consideration - but I’m afraid

@ritter06 - no easy solutions.

1. We cannot tell you what you’ll subjectively like
2. We cannot predict if it’ll work synergistically your other components and/or room

We all have to try/risk for ourselves.

One could try to mitigate the risk by purchasing known synergistically matching amp+speaker combos like Harbeth+Hegel. Or if you find a Demo speaker you like, purchased the speaker and matching electronics. Or, by purchasing sonically neutral speakers transparent to the other audio chain components. And if buying used can resell at minimal cash loss.

In an ideal world, it would be great to have sonic guarantees considering the significant cash outlay and the trouble of changing components. Unfortunately, high-end audio doesn’t grant us this convenience- we all have to struggle our way towards sonic bliss.

Decisions become a lot harder if the budget is very limited or changing the components is very inconvenient. That’s the hobby we’re in

First world problems!

Fear......fear....is it real.

Especially is you are a member of the "enemy within" crowd. The fear may be very real depending on the outcome of 11/ 5.

On the other hand, achieving sonic bliss is fantastic for an audiophile.

The question is: “Which is stronger, the Carrot or the Stick?”

I agree the KEF LS50s are awesome speakers for the money, which is why they are a stand-out in their price range.  I listen to a pair most days, at my partner's place.

The KEF Reference series are 10 to 30 times as expensive, and in my opinion are even better value!  So obviously I think my Reference 1 speakers are good.  The same coincident tweeter / mid-range unit is used in the Reference range.  The more expensive, the more bass drivers you get, which is not necessarily a good thing for overall coherence.

I have a plan. I'll go listen to some speakers. Make a decision and assuming I like something I'll get them.

I have a buyer for my 801s- I won't hand them over until I get the new ones installed and prefer them after a side by side comparison. If they sound as good or better, I keep them.

Worst case I sell the new ones (I'll try to find them used to avoid the max depreciation hit).

@ritter06 - excellent plan.  Always best to try a component in one's own system if one can afford to do so.  I'm assuming you already have proper sonic room treatments?

Yes GIK on the walls, ceiling and bass traps in the corners. Even my 20 something kids wonder about it, but not after I play something they really know and like. MGMT’s Little Dark Age is a fabulous recording (CD).

Good luck with your demos. Hopefully, there are some good options that you can audition in a proper setup.

When I got into this crazy hobby, there was a dealer with lots of options in every budget category. I didn't have a lot of money at the time, but he still spent time with me and discounted things to help me out. I miss that guy. 

My advice is to do if you're gonna do it. How bad do you want the best sonics? Go large on the reserve funds to get other equipment after the speakers.

Before doing so much focus on another speaker & gear option I suggest to make sure the acoustics of the room are optimized. I recently made a change in my room and the impact was big. 

Word

Hello ritter06,

A bit late to the party here, but your post is a very familiar scenario to me and I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I had a set of speakers for many years that were great (Totem Acoustic Wind Design) , but still was interested in considering a new set of speakers. I did not own them as long as your B&W's, but was about 8 years and I was ready to consider a new set of speakers.  I live in a smaller town in Eastern Washington so I don't have local shops to listen to high end gear. I took a 4 day weekend and drove to the Seattle, Washington area to start searching for my new set of speakers. 

I had some brands in mind, but was open minded and just wanted to set out to listen to several pairs that I had not had the opportunity to entertain in the past. B&W and Focal were some of them at the top of my list.

I can be patient and an overthinker so I really didn't anticipate having a full conclusion and driving home with a set of speakers. I also anticipated I would hear several speakers that I liked, but maybe would have a hard time choosing what set sounded best to me when hearing so many... or a day later if the ones I liked yesterday were actually what I remember and so on. 

Long story short, I drove home on day 4 with a pair of Wilson Sasha 2's. There wasn't 1% of a doubt in my mind that the Wilsons were the speakers for me and to my ears sounded superior to the rest.... black and white. I was so thankful and excited to get home and listen to them.  I listened to B&W and Focal as those brands were at the top of my list, some that exceeded the price of the Sasha's and they were too bright/fatiguing and lacked the "real" that the Wilsons offered to my ears. We all hear differently of course, so many could have the same experience and feel differently. 

Just as you, I was nervous to sell my older speakers that I loved so I kept them until the new ones were in my home and I could listen in my environment. Within 1 minute of listening, I knew the old ones would be sold. Getting out there and spending the time to listen to options in person vs. trying to rely on reviews makes me feel super solid in my decision for the long run. It was a fun experience and hope the same for you. Who knows, maybe you getting out there just verifies how great your current speakers are and puts that "bug" to rest for many years... or you find a new pair and experience a whole new tier of listening like I did. 

Vintage is fine but limited in performance with repairs being more likely. Within the last 10-15 years loudspeakers have vastly improved especially in the affordable segment(< $10k).

Currently, the pre-owned gear market is mostly a buyer’s market and as such, there are some pretty good deals out there. Revel Salon 2s, Yamaha NS-5000s and Spendor Classic 100s are a few examples for which I’ve seen better than usual prices.

Just mentioning those as examples, not to suggest they would necessarily be an upgrade over your B&Ws. My point is that, given current market conditions, you might be able to save a good chunk of change once you have a better idea of what you want.

Didn’t someone say that the only thing to fear is fear itself?

Trust your ears. 

@ritter06 thanks for the recommend on Little Dark Age, they went a little Depeche Mode-y after a quick sampling. 
Will be interested in what you end up with. I have 3 sets of older speakers, Nautilus 805’s on the factory stands, and two pairs of Thiels, the baby .5’s and 1.2’s. (The CS .5 setup is the best, but it has by far the best DAC and amp). Unlike you, I’m pretty happy with 2 out of the 3 setups and have no desire to change. Maybe I am in need of a fresh perspective. 🙂

Be a Man and do it...

Stay tuned (no pun). I’ll get to some shops this Fall.

If you can, Buy the new speakers of choice and keep the existing set as well for a while to see if you really like the changes, You might not.

Newer designs will go for more resolution and will pry bring thin never before head ks out of the recordings.

I found Cables same line older were very listenable as they got newer got more sterile.  My 2cents.

In terms of chamber music. you would need to switch to something like the Harbeth 40x series that are very Quad like in their ambience and ability to recreate string tone so beautifully. As for rock and other loud music stick with you've got especially since the crossovers were rebuilt( the original crossover components were severely compromised)

@ritter06 - I suggest you bring CDs to test speakers.

When I demoed many speakers, I used a selection of CDs to test: familiar music, piano, violins, female and male voices, trumpet, orchestra… For acoustic instruments tests, I used a CD Test discs like the Sheffield Lab test cd. During demos, I was evaluating accuracy and involvement (whether the speaker resonated with me)

Best of luck in your hunt

I think it's safe to say that based on the rapidly rising technology curve you'll find some really compelling options that'll best your existing set. To make a direct comparison re: your B&W's vs a new pair will be tough unless you bring your electronics with you to the new speaker demo (or they give you a trial period at home) you'll never really know if the improvement is solely in the speaker section or comprised of all the parts. I'd push for a trial period at home because not only will there be differing electronics at the store you're also demoing in a completely different room than you have at home.

I just bought a new pair of Klipsch La Scala that I have paired with an MA12000 and absolutely love them. 

Good luck!

Well I listened to some speakers (in Atlanta) today.

Borresen X3, Sonus Faber Stradivari, WIlson Sasha V and Watt Puppies.

All in different rooms and different electronics (but all excellent- Mac, D’Agostino etc.). I used known and new source material (ear candy pieces from the dealer) to audition .Summary below:

X3’s were first and sounded quite good- if unremarkable (from memory to the 801’s). Well balanced and no warts. I could live with them.

Sonus were next up. Fuller with more bass but also mid-bass murkiness to my ear. 

The Sashas sounded great. Holographic, good sound stage and transparency (my fav kind of trans). 

The Puppies were last - but not least. In fact, the best. Fantastic transparency - even more so  than the Sashas but without edge or glare. Very balanced. Great coherence. Very  ample bass. To my ear the best of the 4, although close with the V’s. 

I went back to the X3’s for fun, and just 20 seconds was enough to show they were not in the same league.

Next up the B&W 802 D4’s, but already thinking about the Puppies. How different do the prior gen Wilsons sound to the latest iterations?

I'm in Marietta. You are wecome to stop by and listen if you are interested.  My system is posted: 

MY SYSTEM HERE

Nice looking system and I appreciate the offer. I leave tomorrow but will let you know when I come back.

@ritter06 - good job!  Nice assortment of speakers you’ve demoed which gave you a lot of input in deciding sonic preferences - X3s for great price/performance, Sonus Faber’s more musical presentation, and Wilson for accuracy excellence.

How different do the prior gen Wilsons sound to the latest iterations?

Very different- Wilson is at the cutting edge of high-end sonics so have been consistently designing and releasing new better transducers.  Their WP has also gone through a few upgrades before being dropped then subsequently reinstalled very recently back into Wilson’s product line. 

More speakers today.

B&W 803 and 801s with Mac gear (no 802’s unfortunately). Clear and crisp with the 803’s predictably lacking in bass energy and sounded “small” probably because they were flanked by other speakers and were too close together.

801s sounded much better naturally but suffered from being too close to the wall. Overall wonderful presentation. 

In the same room were Focal Maestro Utopias which the dealer was keen to show off. They sounded wonderful but I didn’t like the pushed “on-stage” focus where the music is all around you- prefer if more in front between.

From memory, the Sasha Vs (meticulously set up) sounded best of the lot. The quickness, clarity, soundstage, tight bass and natural mids  AND amazing coherence is just such a great and compelling package. I think I’ve found my speakers.

I meant to say WWP- not Sasha Vs.

Have you ever considered custom horns? I made round tractrix 100hz midbass horns on a lathe and never heard anything better. No flat surfaces or right angles to make resonance and don’t sound like traditional hornes.

What Xover mod did you do? My 802's had North Creek's, Anodyne filter(only bettered by the Krell version), dissipation plates that attached to the rear of both the tweeter and bass cabs and Marigo Dots.

I only sold them because the buyer wanted the NC's but I made him purchase everything. I settled on Merlin's. 

They were the North Creek. So long ago now I can’t recall how they sounded before.

So right now I’m wondering if used Sasha DAWs are sonically close enough to the new WWPs. Pretty big price delta.

.... I’m wondering if used Sasha DAWs are sonically close enough to the new WWPs...

HifiNews here says the WWP-new and the Sasha V has the same drivers, so comparing Sasha DAWs vs Sasha V should give you your answer. 

This reminds me of the shows where people buy homes in Alaska, on a beach or in the Bahamas and they look at three homes and then they make a decision. I would like to revisit those couples who relocated to a cabin in the middle of Alaska somewhere which has no bathroom and sometimes no running water and see if there are still married or alive. And they seemed so happy when it all began.

I think the same show set up would be great for people buying audio gear.

I’m fortunate to have been in the audio hobby for nearly 30 years and have owned tons of different speakers, electronics and tweaks. I’ve auditioned speakers and electronics in showrooms, friends homes and at audio shows and I have to say… it’s the room. More often than not the speaker will sound different in your home than a show or showroom setting. Room size, cubic feet, furnishings, acoustic treatments, open walls, ceiling height, etc. all interact with the sound.

I recently had the same dilemma as the OP and would like to share my experience.

I had a gorgeous pair of older Kharma Grand Ceramic speakers that I had for a lot of years and was totally satisfied with them, but I still yearned for more. (Aren’t we all searching for that holy grail?)

So, I decided to upgrade my electronics (from Mac, to Classe, Krell mono’s, Maker mono’s, then to T+A, then a large Vitus) and heard some improvements in sound with each step, minimal as they were. Then I had an opportunity to pull the trigger on a set of Pilium separates. It was like a light was turned on in a dark room! I am not kidding. There was huge sound coming from the Kharma’s. It was almost as if they were a different pair of speakers.

But, I still thought there was more. I was still zoned-in on the speakers. Finally, I had an opportunity to hear the 801D4 B&W’s side-by-side against the newest Focal Maestro Evo speakers in the same room. As much as I like and respect the B&W’s, the Focal’s blew me away. Not at all bright or fatiguing.

So to make a long story short, I now own a pair of piano black Focal Maestro’s in my room and couldn’t be happier. I honestly think this Focal/Pilium combo is synergistic and as close to the ‘holy grail’ as it gets... (YMMV) 😊

But just as others have said, the speaker sound is personal to the taste of the listener… and also the effects of the electronics, treatments, cabling and the room.

Finally, some notable mentions of speakers I have owned or heard are Kharma, Dynaudio, Legacy and a few others. I hope the speaker searching journey for the OP proves to be a satisfying and rewarding one.

Thanks for reading.

Just bought new Puppies today. Get them in Feb.

Congratulations!

Ex B&W owner. I was going to say the closest thing will be the Wilsons. They sound real and alive. Slightly more laid back than the B&Ws but in a good way. 
 

I highly recommend having your new Wilsons set up by your dealer. If there’s a downside to Wilson speakers it’s their sensitivity to placement and room acoustics. 
 

Good luck and enjoy!

keep us posted. 

Yes dealer has already offered to fly down to Nassau and set them up - my expense of course. No point in not having them set up properly.

Can then play with amps- Mac, Krell and Crown.

Then there’s the cable decision 🙄

And the fun begins!!! Lol 

Many amps will work well with the Wilsons as long as they’re capable of high current delivery. I would not do McIntosh. But Pass, Gryphon, Boulder, D’Agostino, SimAudio Moon the latest North series should be good. Amp is the key to good sound with Wilson Audio. 
 

Enjoy your journey. It’s just money 😉

I heard it at the dealer with McIntosh and the sound was liquid and holographic.

Cool. If you liked it go for it. You mentioned Crown. That is like making whiskey soda with a 25 year old Macallan. 

I only drink vodka.

I too am speaker shopping...and very afraid...I think I will have to go for some company that offers a home trial, which is the only way to truly audition a speaker. If it wont work at home, it doesnt work at all. So that puts me in a quandary. I think I want a pair of Ohm F5s but at 16k plus shipping its a tough sell, but they do have built in subs, and a free home trial. If I dont like em I ship em back and I am out only the shipping cost. Then there is the Legacy Focus SE which is less money, more efficient so it needs less amplifier, but with no home free trial. GRRR. I think the Fs are gonna take it.

If you read my circumstances , that was not possible but clearly the preferred route.

That said I am no longer afraid- I'm excited. I have confidence that the WWPs exceed my 801s by every important metric.