I think I've been honest in saying I put in an expensive AU power cord and did not hear a difference but I did with the Shunyata. When I have the time I will be experimenting with the AU power cord on different components. The AU gets great reviews and feedback. Anybody else have experience with this pc?
New expensive power cord for amp and no change in sound?
I bought new an expensive(for me) well known and reviewed power cord for my very good amp and plugged it directly onto the wall socket. After a couple of weeks of daily use I hear no change in the sound quality from a $500 cord. I don’t want to name it for fear of getting my thread deleted. You would know it or at least be aware of the company. Did I throw away several thousand dollars? Before I get the snake oil answer I want to let you know that I bought an upgraded cord for my pre as suggested by the pre’s manufacturer and am pleased with the results.
I guess for full disclosure the amp’s manufacturer said don’t bother. But I had had good luck with the pre so I thought it would be a good idea.
Anybody else have this happen to them?
220 responses Add your response
Time for a rewind: "Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction." (Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse , 1872) "The abdomen, the chest, and the brain will forever be shut from the intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon," (Sir John Eric Ericksen, British surgeon, appointed Surgeon-Extraordinary to Queen Victoria 1873) "The super computer is technologically impossible. It would take all of the water that flows over Niagara Falls to cool the heat generated by the number of vacuum tubes required." (Professor of Electrical Engineering, New York University) "There is no likelihood man can ever tap the power of the atom." (Robert Millikan, Nobel Prize in Physics, 1923) "Man will never reach the moon regardless of all future scientific advances." (Dr. Lee DeForest, Father of Radio & Grandfather of Television) "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible!" (Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895) "The bomb will never go off. I speak as an expert in explosives." (Admiral William Leahy, re: US Atomic Bomb Project) When the steam locomotive came on the scene; the best (scientific) minds proclaimed, "The human body cannot survive speeds in excess of 35MPH." Until recently (21st Century); and the advent of the relatively new science of Fluid Dynamics, the best (scientific) minds involved in Aerodynamics, could not fathom how a bumblebee stays aloft. Often; Science has to catch up with the facts/phenomena of Nature and/or, "reality" (our universe). I haven't been in school since the 60's, but- at Case Institute of Technology; the Physics Prof always emphasized what we were studying was, "Electrical THEORY." He strongly made a point of the fact that no one had yet actually observed electrons (how they behave on the quantum level) and that only some things can really be called, "LAWS." (ie: Ohm, Kirchoff, Faraday) PERHAPS: that's changed in recent years and I missed it?
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With my "Engineer" brain, I never believed any of this stuff about power cords sounding better/worse, or even different. Then, after chasing an intermittent problem/funny sound, for several months, in an Mc60, I became a believer. I had a cruddy power cord. Changing to a new "high current" cord, the problem immediately vanished and never returned in the 30 years I used that amp. So yean. Power cords. Relevant. | ||
"Maybe I’m ignorant, but why would a power chord make a difference to sound?" - If you are a scientist an EE or an electrician, please risk that overwhelming temptation to try to figure that out. It just gets in the way of enjoying the sound of your system. All of us hear things differently and our brains process them differently, it makes us all unique and similar at the same time. If you try it and can’t hear a difference, fine. If you can’t fine too. Listen to eurorack! | ||
Back in March 2022: a thread about power cords and break/burn-in was started. I hate to type, so: I'm going to copy/paste some of my speculations. That a highly complex musical signal, MIGHT affect Poynting vectors and signal speeds*, in interconnects, in a much more profound manner than a simple AC (ie: a fixed 60/50 Hz) signal, in a PC, seems likely (at least) to me, as; in EVERY formula regarding *those two, a signal's frequency ( Further: the above and what I'll c/p (seems to me) lends credence to how the application of a stronger, DC voltage/field, outside a dielectric (ala Synergistic MPC and Audioquest DBS systems), might stabilize those vectors and signal speeds, PERHAPS eliminating some time smear and, "burn-in".
Happy listening! | ||
For anyone ACTUALLY interested in doing some study, another rewind: Anyone needing a rationale for experimenting with new cables in their system and/or feeling dissuaded by the Church of Denyin'tology's antiquated electrical doctrines: take heart!
As simple a device as a fuse is: it still carries a sinusoidal signal/voltage, ALWAYS from source to load. NOT back and forth! Also (as mentioned above): any fuse acts as an RLC circuit, the 'C' of which will be determined by properties of its wave guide's/ conductor's surroundings (ie: glass, air, bee's wax, ceramic, end cap materials, etc). Any commonly drawn wire will exhibit a chevron pattern in its crystal lattice, so: why not "directionality" and why OHNO Continuous Cast, single crystal wire sounds better, to so many?
Stated above are scientifically tested, measured and proven facts. There is no "contest", or "dispute" involved.
The OP mentions Maxwell, but: obviously they have no understanding of his theory and possible ramifications as regards the above.
Anyone that feels compelled to harp on not hearing any differences, is obviously too obtuse to understand the term "variables" (as frequently mentioned) and worthy of disregard.
My only goal in these threads has ever been to encourage those with a mind to experiment with their systems, based on the latest (20th/21st Century's) findings of ACTUAL Physics/science and ignore the Cargo Cult's incessant runway building (objections, convolutions, deflections and obfuscations).
Happy listening! | ||
Depending on the manufacturer a couple of weeks may not be enough break in time. For example, my experience with Morrow Audio cables take at least 300 hours to break in. In my experience power cords can have a significant impact depending on the resolving power of your system. Get yourself a break in file on repeat and give it some time. | ||
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My First experience with power cords was back in the early 90's Being in the electrical field I was sceptical at the same time open minded because all wire is not created equally. The Store had the exact same system as mine, Amp speakers and CD player. And they swapped out a $350 Nordost Blue haven cord and I could hear a difference in the store. They gave me the power cable to try in my home and I was shocked to hear the difference. I was not really into audiophile if you will, just enjoyed music at that time. the components were in the wrong part of the room and no treatment, due to being married and she had top have the house look a certain way. Blah Blah Blah. Fast forward To new upgraded audio gear, and the Wireworld dealer gave me 3 power cords to take home. After a week of listening trying all three, I chose the one in the middle at that time it suited the room and the gear I had. This is where my cable obsession took off. As well the room got re-arranged, and the gear found its new home in the room. Room treatment started as well, and then I upgraded all the cables to Silver eclipse 8 and never regretted it for a moment. I found that once you hit a certain price point in Gear, there is a noticeable difference in cables. | ||
The improvements are all in your head . You spend a lot and expect a lot. Power is power. In M.O. any decent manufacturer of good equipment would consider a minimal investment in power cords good business. This would be easy and inexpensive way to improve their sound quality. While I've seen sound improvements in speaker and interconnect wires without spending Ks. I don't believe a heavier power cable would make much of a difference. Look more to overloaded outlets change 15amp to 20amp circuit breakers Of course this is Only M.O. | ||
Imagine power supply that works like this. You charge big battery from mains, disconnect it and then use to power your amp with clean DC, disconnected from mains. No noise from electrical lines. So ideal power supply should work exactly like this, rejecting noise and interference. Amp schematics and parts placement may be more or less sensitive to what comes from the AC mains. Different amps have different designs and different power supplies. Thus some are more sensitive to power cables and some less. Perhaps yours is in the “less” category. | ||
@roxy1927 power cord change from original one one of respectful manufacturers, shouldn't make any listenable difference, assuming original cable is healthy. Many used separates are sold with random, no-one knows, power cords, and in that case, replacing it makes sense. | ||
Power cords can make a huge difference. This difference can be on par with buying a new amp (component upgrade). But unfortunately, cost does not aways dictate compatibility or performance with your gear. You just have to go with trial and error. Its just like buying interconnects, again, trial and error, system dependent. | ||
Well then Pass is a well known and admired popular brand in the audiophile world. I would like to know if others have used up market cords with Pass and found they did improve the sound. Or does everybody who buys Pass use the stock cord? I would appreciate if Pass owners and there must be a number of you would respond and let me know what results you’ve found.
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I own Pass phono stage, headphone amp. Used to own several power amps, starting from Aleph. I use fairly simple cables, properly shielded, soldered and have sufficient capability to deliver appropriate current without picking up additional RF interference. In $100 price range. I generally think “what would be used in a fighter plane electric power delivery system”… | ||
@eurorack of course if you change from a substandard, “crud” power cord to something that’s half decent you should notice a difference. That’s obvious. Crap is gonna limit anything in this world - power cords or not. What we discussing in this thread is if there’s a difference between a $100 power cord and a $500 power cord and a $4000 power cord.
That’s very different from the experience and situation you are referring to, I think. | ||
I'm fairly certain; very little critical audio listening goes on in fighter planes. However: here's something that NASA selected, to conduct power, for their portable LASERs.
https://homeaudio.analysis.plus/faq-items/letter-from-nasa/
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@rodman99999 - this is exactly what I mean. There is little critical audio listening in the fighter plane, but i am sure quality cables are selected to deliver power in environment full of RF interference and when performance may literally mean life or death. They would perform well in a less hostile conditions :-)
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New video -- 2 Power cords sound test 1) click 3:51. This opens YT window. 2) In YT, make a small YT window (narrow & tall, right half screen) to see the video screen and 2 time stamps (3:51, 9:37 in description) are in the same screen. Just relax and feel what comes to your ears when you click. ** Please visit my room (#272) at THE Show 2024, OC. Costa Mesa audio show on June 7-9. Alex/WTA | ||
No doubt: they're selected to dependably deliver DC voltages, under those conditions. Personally: power cables designed to conduct (perhaps: purify) AC voltages, or: ICs designed for the highly complex musical signals I enjoy, are my preference. When it comes to performance, in life and death situations; it's been my experience: firearms are much more dependable. Out of curiosity: what brand of fighter jet cabling have you found to use in your system? How did you do your research, or: have you schooling in Avionics? | ||
I have owned the following Pass amps: X250.5, XA30.8, X260.8 mono blocks (my current amps). I’ve also experimented with several power cables. I heard the difference every time. The change isn’t always positive. But it’s there and is audible. As a matter of fact, I’ve not yet owned a component that didn’t react to power cord changes. | ||
@rodman99999 My ed is in applied math, signal processing and hobby is DYI audio. I don't specialize in avionics, it is just I tend to look up what is used in real advanced cases. Just to be sure there is no Barnum... I've seen "big box" fancy looking gear, but when opened it was basically empty inside with 3"x3" poorly soldered board and unshielded power supply. But it costed $$$. So I always check the engineering side. There is a list of MILSPEC cables that list material, shielding, etc. So it is handy to check if that exotic metals cable wrapped in Japanese silk is truly necessary :-) | ||
@squared80 (et al)-
Another rerun, since so many of you are a waste of keystrokes:
Do a bit of research and you'll learn those primitives were limited in their understanding of what they saw with their eyes, based on their prior experience, education and BIASES. A rewind:
OR, two:
At the very first mention of something as simple as Wave Function (a BASIC tenet of Quantum Mechanics), the Cargo Cult will label you a KOOK. But remember: they can only view/understand you, based on their limited experience, education and BIASES. They have overlooked the fact that, if not for the hypotheses/theories and experimentation, regarding Quantum Mechanics: a plethora of modern conveniences, medical devices and the gear they so love, would not exist. Had scientists, chemists and inventors shared the doctrines of the Cargo Cult (Denyin'tologists), there would be no semiconductors, computer chips, LASERs, or Magnetic Resonance Imaging devices (MRIs). Solid State amps? OOPS (back to tubes)! Your Smart Phone? FA'GET ABOUT IT! Your car's GPS? NOPE! Then too: some may be willfully ignorant and just enjoy being contentious. Others: obtuse, uneducated*, misinformed? *Typically, from what's been exhibited here: H.S. STEM, if that, would be a safe inference. Either way: the result, when the Cult begins its rhetoric, is a classic demo of the Dunning- Kruger Effect. But, I digress: Bring up those pesky details, regarding the likes of QED, Dielectric Absorption, Poynting's theorem and possible application/effects, relative to frequency, that our musical signals are carried via photon or wave, outside the conductor and you're a KOOK? Again: the Cargo Cult can only understand anyone with an actual background, experience and education in Physics/QED, based on THEIR own beliefs, education, experience and biases Remember this?.
Oh well: let 'em go build a runway! references: https://uwaterloo.ca/ But: I'm a kook, because I believe in the SCIENCE, from which all that sprang? Einstein got that last one wrong (Quantum Entanglement), BUT- I still wish he'd been alive, when the Hubble Telescope proved, what he considered his, "greatest blunder" (his inability to bring symmetry to his field equation, without lambda). Another example of a hypothesis/theory, with no way to EXPERIMENT/MEASURE, what you're sure must be there, in some detectable way, or another. Just for fun: https://www. Happy listening!
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@squared80 this is not entirely true. First, often supplied power cables are poor quality. Cost cutting. Pass cables are pretty good actually, properly designed. Hospitals use medical grade connectors - so they care about better power connection, right? There is indeed a LOT of snake oil. But there are also poorly designed power supplies… Nelson has an excellent writing on how much Class A amp must weigh. And if weigh less, you are getting scammed. Because amo must have proper power transformers and headsinks and they weigh a lot. | ||
All this demonstrates is that you are a sensible person who doesn’t automatically assume that because he paid $500 for a power cord it sounds better. Congratulations on having such good sense. The power cord mania is pure nonsense. I bought fancy power cords for all my components a few years ago and ended up selling them all because they made no difference in sound. They looked great, but I wasn’t about to turn my units backwards so I could admire them. | ||
I have several Shunyata products in my system and every one of them works as claimed by the manufacturer at every price level. You would do well staying with Shunyata. The difference in SQ will be appreciated more and more as the power cord breaks in. May be subtle at first but after 400 hours, switch out the new for the old and you will be very pleasantly surprised. Enjoy! | ||
I am about to start breaking in a new XP-12 and I will start with the stock cord, can you recommend some cords I should consider if I choose to upgrade? | ||
EXACTLY! There are also a number of other cable manufacturers and purveyors that allow a listening period and return policy, if you are dissatisfied/unimpressed. And (again): Anyone that feels compelled to harp on not hearing any differences, is obviously too obtuse to understand the term "variables" (as frequently mentioned) and worthy of disregard. My only goal in these threads has ever been to encourage those with a mind to experiment with their systems, based on the latest (20th/21st Century's) findings of ACTUAL Physics/science and ignore the Cargo Cult's incessant runway building (objections, convolutions, deflections and obfuscations). Happy listening! | ||
@zlone Depends on how your system is balanced (lean, warm, bright?), sound characteristics you’re looking for and budget. Not to high jack this thread, may be start a new discussion? Or pm me. | ||
Trust your ears. There are many PC review videos. Don’t trust reviewer’s ears. Listen to the recording of the actual PC. Comparison videos are better. Microphones don’t lie. Human ears are biased always and they trick us. If I like A sound better than B sound in a comparison video, I like A sound better in real life too. Alex/WTA | ||
@noromance I've measured over 2 Volts, but that was on a class A triode amp that made 140 Watts... or it did if the AC was right. When the spec line Voltage was at 120V the amp only made 100 Watts. The measured AC line Voltage at the IEC connection was closer to 117V as opposed to the Voltage at the outlet. A 40 Watt loss is not only very measurable but also audible. As I said earlier, the power draw from the line is an important aspect of what you can hear and measure. Internal power supply regulation as well as feedback to allow the amp (or preamp) to reject effects of AC line Voltage have an effect as well. So some people will hear things and others will not. This also explains why many people report better sound at night (which the AC line Voltage tends to be higher). | ||
Unless there was something very wrong with your last power cord, or it was just a very poorly made one, you're not going to here any differences other than those that occur within your own mind via confirmation bias. This has been tested to death. BTW, no one will ever be able to rank a set of well made power cords by quality based upon what they cost. So spending stupid money on cords would be far better spent on room treatments or better gear IMO. I liken these kinds of gimmicks to the nutraceutical industries claims about their pills and potions-- they (almost) never EVER stand up to any kind of real scientific inquiry. The placebo effect however is very real and in almost all cases, the products never test better than the placebo control group. The claims made by so many ultra-high-end cable companies are pure sci-fi fantasy-- and they have the non-science to back them up! Just go for quality made cables that use quality materials, especially the connectors, and you'll be fine. Don't drive yourself mad buying into voodoo claims made by companies that make obscene profits by trying to differentiate their products with sci-fi lullabies. | ||
And (again): Anyone that feels compelled to harp on not hearing any differences, is obviously too obtuse to understand the term "variables" (as frequently mentioned) and worthy of disregard.
Another rerun, since so many of you are a waste of keystrokes:
Do a bit of research and you'll learn those primitives were limited in their understanding of what they saw with their eyes, based on their prior experience, education and BIASES. A rewind:
OR, two:
At the very first mention of something as simple as Wave Function (a BASIC tenet of Quantum Mechanics), the Cargo Cult will label you a KOOK. But remember: they can only view/understand you, based on their limited experience, education and BIASES. They have overlooked the fact that, if not for the hypotheses/theories and experimentation, regarding Quantum Mechanics: a plethora of modern conveniences, medical devices and the gear they so love, would not exist. Had scientists, chemists and inventors shared the doctrines of the Cargo Cult (Denyin'tologists), there would be no semiconductors, computer chips, LASERs, or Magnetic Resonance Imaging devices (MRIs). Solid State amps? OOPS (back to tubes)! Your Smart Phone? FA'GET ABOUT IT! Your car's GPS? NOPE! Then too: some may be willfully ignorant and just enjoy being contentious. Others: obtuse, uneducated*, misinformed? *Typically, from what's been exhibited here: H.S. STEM, if that, would be a safe inference. Either way: the result, when the Cult begins its rhetoric, is a classic demo of the Dunning- Kruger Effect. But, I digress: Bring up those pesky details, regarding the likes of QED, Dielectric Absorption, Poynting's theorem and possible application/effects, relative to frequency, that our musical signals are carried via photon or wave, outside the conductor and you're a KOOK? Again: the Cargo Cult can only understand anyone with an actual background, experience and education in Physics/QED, based on THEIR own beliefs, education, experience and biases Remember this?.
Oh well: let 'em go build a runway! references: https://uwaterloo.ca/ But: I'm a kook, because I believe in the SCIENCE, from which all that sprang? Einstein got that last one wrong (Quantum Entanglement), BUT- I still wish he'd been alive, when the Hubble Telescope proved, what he considered his, "greatest blunder" (his inability to bring symmetry to his field equation, without lambda). Another example of a hypothesis/theory, with no way to EXPERIMENT/MEASURE, what you're sure must be there, in some detectable way, or another. Just for fun: https://www. Happy listening!
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Quick overview of my experience: ►Definite improvement from $10 stock cord to $100 level after market cord on every component. Usually heard in elimination of background ’noise’. or just improved power delivery ►Once a system is built that is close to one’s ideal (say a 7-8 out of 10), then power cords can make another medium/large step toward that ideal (to reach that 8.5-9 out of ten level). At times, I’ve noticed connectors can contribute significantly (almost as much as the cable) in some cords (think Furutech, Oyaide, etc.) ►Cable size, geometry, materials (copper, silver, carbon, air dialectric), and cryogenic or ’cooking’ treatment can definitely contribute to achieving that ’last mile or two’ of performance/preference. ► After starting with Bob Crump’s (TG Audio) cords over 25 years ago, I’ve probably tried 30-40 different power cords over the years, with mixed results. I’m currently using a large diameter silver power cord (Tek-Line) on an amp, smaller diameter diameter cord on transport (Acrolink 7N4020III w/Oyaide 004 connectors), and Argento Flow Master on DAC. Electraglide or other ribbon cord(s) on things tubed, especially preamp. YMMV. ►Like most of us, I have quite the collection of power cords, interconnects, speaker cables in the [big] boxes in the closet. And I must say, most I actually liked at the time; just moved on to 'better(?)' 😊 | ||
@dill - Shouldn’t you want to "prove it"? What experiment or test do you propose that will allow for a fair evaluation? There’s no "better", there’s just different. Beyond a certain level of build or materials quality, more money gets you nothing except that warm and cozy feeling of certainty that comes with confirmation bias. Take away the labels, do a blind test, and you will never be able to discern good, better, or best. To paraphrase Pete Townsend, "Is it in my head?". You bet it is. | ||
often, if it sounds "different" it will sound better to some and not to others...and yes, many here have done blind tests, but to decide for ourselves, no need to "prove" to others...no one here really wants to spend money and get nothing in return...though some seem to think many here do and are not able to make reasonable decisions for themselves... | ||