New D'Agostino Monoblocks...$250,000
We as audiophiles/ "audiophools" are all on the endless quest trying to accomplish the one and only one thing that can never be attained. That is true high fidelity to be absolutely true to the original recording. So I pose this question did Dan achieve that benchmark with these almost 500 lb beasts? Or was it more so a genitalia measuring contest? |
With all due respect to those who feel that R&D and opulence in design is damaging high end audio my experience is the opposite more often than not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piutEtuAfGo The strong points of any design eventually cycle down to be used by other manufactures to benefit yet another available parameter that some may find an important consideration in their own systems minus the celebrity and the polish. This cycle is driven by a small affluent market. Without that market how does one finance the time and R&D that goes into such a product. Its nice to see someone at this point in their life regroup and become the center of attention no matter how fleeting. Way to go! |
I think audiophiles often simply want things that sound good to them, as really, there is no standard (what do these amps do in the quarter mile? 0 to 60?). I think D’Agostino’s "wrist watch meets steam punk" gear looks amazing, likely sounds fine, and like every other mega buck product is often met with a resounding "meh" when contemplated by the proletariat, who just might own a pile of some well sorted unpretentious music reproduction gear that puts coherent sound into the air to provide a treat for your earballs and addled brain. |
repluso, Dylan became famous for writing "protest" songs. He soon moved beyond that phase of his career but people kept demanding that he write more of them. Dylan called them his "finger pointing songs" and said that he just wrote them because that’s what people were buying at the time. He understood that aiming his hand in a soldier's stance, to paraphrase "My Back Pages" wouldn’t end war or injustice but made him part of the problem of divisions between people. His protest songs are great songs but the way to change things is to do something positive yourself, not accuse others of being the problem. |
People forget how calculated Dylan's early career path was, from his name change to his singing style to his Woody obsession...he had the chops, work ethic, and charisma to make it all work somehow and the timing was impeccable, clearly illustrated by all the non super famous people from the old folkie scene. |
Check out the output transistor count, 128 x per channel, 256 total!!!!!!!!! And you know Dan used bi-polars and not wimpy mosfets, like he does with all his amps I know, this thing could weld the Golden Gate Bridge supports. BTW: I like the look of your MRA's chris59 http://stereotimes.com/images/Krell1.GIF Cheers George |
So, you’re going to keep a band set up in your house 24/7 so they are available whenever you want to listen to music or maybe 100 bands so you can listen to different kinds of music? That could get expensive and inconvenient. That’s what a stereo and recorded music are for. Live music is an occasional treat. Have you ever thought about that? |
Anyway you look at it, 250k for an amplifier is simply nuts in the context of listening to reproduced music. What in the world does it have to do with anything other than some deep pocketed narcissist' power to show off his latest acquistion to those he wants to impress. No disrepect to Dan intended or implied, one has to make business decisions in order to keep on keeping on, good luck and fortune to him, he seems a fine and deserving man who's skill in industrial design may superceed the sonic justification of a pair of 465 lb. 250k amps . One thing that can't be denied is they are quite pretty audio jewelry. |
soniqmike, I look at it from a positive point of view. That means those able to buy the amps are at 70-80%. Not even sure it's as bad as you make it out to be. It's usually ultra high frequencies anyway. I remember getting upset when I was younger when I would see the "older guys" driving the sport cars I wanted to buy but did not have the paycheck then. I give them credit to be able to live that life. It's not as if any of us here on Audiogon are extremely poor. |
Wow, 250k for amps. Then 2k for the crane, 4k to get another power cable to the house, 4k to re-wire the house, 10k to reinforce the flooring, 4k per year to run them etc etc. and if the sound is off... put them on A'Gon? They are works of art, put them in a museum. As was said in the film -Field of Dreams- "Build it and they will come". God also said that to Moses re building the ark. |
Dan could charge a cool million as far as I am concerned. Those buying Dan's latest amp are buying a part of HEA history. I don't care if it cost $250.00 or $250,000.00 Dan is one classy man! If I was ever going to buy an amp that described the era of HEA personalities it would be this one. Michael Green www.michaelgreenaudio.net |
One thing I loved to do was to venture to San Diego and visit Stereo Design. Take my music and go in the stupidly expensive, I will never be able to afford this stuff room, play my music and sit back and hear how it really is supposed to sound. I've been a customer and friend for so long that they just let me go in and play whatever I liked. So, what I tell people that want to move to the "high end", take your favorite music and go listen on the best system you can find. That way, you will hear basically how it was supposed to sound. Some people say this is a mistake and it will ruin your ear for your equipment, but I don't buy that logic. I want to know what I'm trying to get to. so, for these $250k amps and any other equipment, more power to them. I've heard his amps and equipment and they are top notch. I may not be able to afford them but that doesn't stop me from appreciating the work. Now, since Stereo Design has finally closed after many decades, I have found Randy in Santa Monica. The Vandersteen 7 speakers, Vandersteen amps, or Audio Research REF 250SE amps, REF 10 pre-amp, REF 10 phono, stupidly expensive basis turntable and I absolutely love it. so, enjoy |
My house is worth about half of what these amps sell for. That's fine. They are not marketed towards people of my means. It makes me chuckle when I read how upset people get when something like this is released. If you really want to show these folks you mean business,don't buy them. :) I know if I earned upper 7 figures a year, I might try them,along with other uber priced items. |
I was at an event at Sunny's in Covina, CA where D'Agostino was demoing his new line with Wilson Darth Vader speakers (about 4 years ago). He described how he creates his products. He made it sound like it was all based on hearing and trial and error. He never mentioned taking measurements. Maybe an oversight on his part but I was turned off on the line based on his description of his design process,. Speakers did sound good on the $200K+ that day, |
A close reading of the test bench results John Atkinson has gotten from some of the D’Agostino products may provide the answer to why DD doesn’t mention them in his talks. Roger Modjeski discusses in his now-dormant Audiocircle Music Reference Forum the results of one such review, explaining what in the design causes it’s poor test bench performance, and how that design behaves when presented with a musical signal and a loudspeaker load. |
It's comical to read how outraged people get when a product like this is released. I'm quite sure those who gnash their teeth the loudest, would get looks of insanity if they were to discuss the cost of their current "stereo" with their friends, which in their mind is completely rational and budget-conscious. It's all relative, and I for one love halo product such as this. |
I have to admit that hk_fan is right on the mark. Not one single person on here is poor and struggling to the point of giving up completely. We all share our love of audio equipment and listening to music. The teeth gnashers would probably never admit that they have lied about the cost of their stereo equipment to their friends or their WIVES! The uber rich can buy what we cannot. Why hate? |
250k get freakin real. Tell your buddies it costs 50k ohhhh it was a bargain. It’s a fancy case and I’m sure it will push any speakers and sound fantastic. It should at the very least do that. It’s a rich mans penis measuring ornament at 250k. Put it up against the best 20k amp you can think of and do a blind test. Personally this showboat BS makes me a little sick. |
To produce what can only be considered an electrical engineering work of art show that Dan is able to do at that price point. I remember when the NAIM Statement amplifiers came out and they were big money too, and are still magnificent to look at. We have an A/V rag that features homes of the fortunate and their audio H/T setups. Last month, may be two ago, one such setup had 6 NAIM Statements in the system, with NAIM personally modifying the controller to accommodate them. That's big bikkies and some real power. Kudos do Dan and his company. Unfortunately I won't be able to have any of his works of art at my home (unless gifted). The same goes for NAIM although I do have their Atom. |
It's simply lifestyle marketing as people who actually want to spend the bucks will. Having at least a rudimentary understanding of how amps work, and not taking in to account whatever the research budget might be, there is absolutely no way Uncle Dan has as much money in these amps as a McLaren or Porsche GT...so it simply must be priced as a useful artwork, and that's OK...I like art. |
when you compare them to amps bigger in size, say Gryphon Mephisto and Pass Xs300, you see that it weighs still more than them. Why? Knowing as well that the two competitors are full classA amps operating at very high bias and that the Relentless is AB mode, you even more question its weight, as everyone knows that the power supply is the heaviest component of an amp !! The Gryphon and Pass work at 200W and 300W full classA, while the Relentless only 30W or so!!! Where does the weight come from??? Ah yes, if you look carefully, you will see that the thickness of the whole and yet beautiful metal cover of this amp is enormous all the way. It is actually about 6 to 8 times thicker than the other two, on which you can already easily stand a man of 220 pounds !! If the, say Mephisto amp, had the same thickness of cover/chassis and instead of having an acrylic front panel had it in metal as well, I estimate that it would weigh about 500 pounds each instead of its already hefty 230pounds!! Now when you know that the highly and well respected Bryston 28B3 has over 1,000W AB power (tested at 1,200W actually) for some 45 pounds, you ask yourself what is the correlation of sound quality/weight/power to price. And more particularly, what is the marketing gain or audiophile brain stimulation argument of announcing; hey guys, this amp is 485 pounds and 1,500W and it's so beautiful!! so this is an absolute amp, so it has and absolute price too. Yes, of course, and truly based on what in the end? Sound? Irrational passion? pride of ownership? All in all, if it does not beat the Mephisto and/or the Xs300 in sound quality, it would clearly not be worth a quarter of its price. Honest reviewer urgently required please... to honestly assess sound, not the object. |
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I think a lot of us forget that a $250K amp is extremely affordable for certain consumers. If you are making $250K a week, or a day, you get the picture. What baffles me a little, is why Dan chose that actual price. Clearly he has a certain market in mind; for this particular market, $250K is chump change....so why not ask $2.5 Million or even much more??? That’s what I would have done...:0) |
It's all relative. I was in our local bike shop today and, thinking about this thread, looked over all the sleek and carbon fiber-y Specializes and Cannondales and whatnots and, having been a cyclist for three decades now, wasn't surprised a bit at how casually many were priced in the $2K and up range - and that's before pedals and other accessories. Many bikes were in the $5-$10K range, weighed less than .0002 pounds, and did your laundry after the ride. The point being is that many of the cyclists who would drop $4K on a good bike would be seen as gratuitously frivolous with their money for those who don't cycle. And most of these cyclists are not professionals by any means, just dedicated amateurs in pursuit of a smooth and challenging machine to match the reality between their dreams and capabilities. It's like the 20-somethings who trick out their Hondas, turning an $18K 2010 Accord into a $40K modified street beast. Or those who take an F-150 and dump $15K worth of modifications into it. It's a serious hobby - the only difference between that and audiophilia is that we tend not to build our machines. If you can drop $250K into amplifiers, you have more money than you know what to do with AND a knowledge of what sounds good. That's a rare combination. And yes, we lie all the time about the price of our components, sometimes so as not to sound like a complete ass-hat. But other times to soften the blow to spouses and relatives and friends who just don't understand. It's like that classic comic with two audiophiles, one saying to the other: "I hope that when I die my wife doesn't sell my gear for as little as I told her I paid for it." Oh - and $250K on live sound every week? Hell no. Live sound usually sucks. Plus, then I'm a captive audience to the band I booked. The introvert in me would much rather just chill to a recording and not deal with people. |
I am sure that some of the pricing strategy is " charge what the market will bear" but remember the USA/global economies are minting new billionaires. The owners of the company I work for just bought a 150 yacht last year that must have cost at least $30M and if you go to Ft Lauderdale they are lined up in rows. The globe is awash in capital but just concentrated in a few who can afford these luxuries. I am quite happy with my modest system and I'm sure gives me as much pleasure as a much more expensive system would. |
I have to wonder if the “golden toilet” crowd who can afford these even turn them on an any sort of semi-regular basis. That, to me, is the ironically sad part of pandering to the 10% crowd. Ive never heard any of his amps and have no interest. It’s america so even selling poison to people will make one rich, but those who do eventually have to stare morality in the face. I don’t have those problems, my conscience is clear and I’m happy to just pay the rent, keep us fed, my daughter's Therapies paid for and the occasional record purchase this month even if I have to work 75+ hours to do it. |
