Need recommendations for a streamer

I am a big advocate of high quality streamers. I have used many approaches and a number of dedicated streamers and highly recommend Aurender… I now own two… see my UserID.

I recommend looking at two components for upgrade… the Freya+ as well as the streamer. I would upgrade the streamer first… but perhaps stretch you budget a bit to $3.5K - $5K to better match your othe components. You may not get the full value of your system until you do your preamp as well.

Also, don’t worry about connectivity. Just get a wall wart extender for your streamer… plug it next to your audio system and plug your streamer in to it. I had a Aurlic Aries G2 for about a year which I struggled with… I had bought it because it had internal wIFI. Then I bought my first Aurender and a wall wart extender and sound quality and all my problems went a way. I know of a number of $150K systems operating this way.

Thanks. I'll look into Aurender.

"wi-fi/cloud without a physical wire/connection"

Please don’t waste your money on a Aurender or any other high $$$ streamer if you cannot use a wired ethernet connection with a Wi-Fi extender powered by linear power supply.

And if you’re not using ROON, you are going to miss the already excellent BLUOS app with so many cloud based streaming options.

Just build it https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/audio-pc-4

and add a high end interface like the Pink Faun https://magnahifi.com/pink-faun-computer-audio-bridge-pcie/#reviews

Depending upon where you live i don't think WiFi is that big a problem and it sure assists with system placement and the all important WAF

I went from a Vault 2i to a Auralic Aries G1, definite upgrade

OK I don't get it... I don't get power cables either but I'm wrong again.  I've been using WIFI to my fanless PC streamer and have had a plugin access point for years with an ethernet port so to hook it up I just had to dig up a long enough ethernet cable and try it.... and dang it sounds better than WIFI.  It's WIFI to the extender WTF???  The only thing I can figure is the ethernet port is on a different bus than the WIFI port and it lowers the noise floor.

Thanks GH!

Just buy an iFi Zen. Better AND cheaper.

Look at all the users that left Aurrender cuz of bugs.

Do you feel lucky?

Ethernet is more solid than wifi will ever be.

Are you on another planet? There is no such thing as balanced digital. It makes your post senseless.

What streamer has balanced out to a DAC? 
 

Are you using a streaming service or?

I would hope that you compare the Node with the much more expensive streamers, especially if you're sending the signal out to a good DAC. You could save thousands if you don't hear a difference.

@laserjock1963 to answer your question.

https://simaudio.com/en/product/mind2-network-player/

AURALiC Aries G1 is wireless, has AES/EBU (balanced) output and used costs less than $2500.

But….you can get a WiFi access point and wire a non-WiFi streamer. Now you have many more options to consider. I use EERO access point to wire my network player. It’s no big deal.

Totally spaced and forgot about AES/EBU

I don't understand what OP means by 'balanced output' into a DAC. Also, why are you excluding streamers with good DACs? You can always bypass it if need be.

If the OP can loosen some of the requirements, Hifi Rose RS250 is a good option that has built-in wifi. There are a number of folks on audiogon who have purchased this streamer and are quite happy with the performance. However, it does have a built-in DAC.

Another great option is Innuos Zen MK3. It doesn't support wireless, but as audphile1 mentioned, there are ways around it. I also have a Terminator II and it is paired with Innuos Zen's bigger brother -- Innuos Zenith MK3. I love this combo!

@arafiq 

I don't understand what OP means by 'balanced output' into a DAC.

He might mean AES/EBU XLR 110 ohm digital output? Sometimes people refer to that as "balanced".

Thanks, @ghasley . I didn't realize that AES/EBU is a balanced design. I always thought that although you can use an XLR cable but it's not truly balanced.

@fuzztone ​​+1 @hilde45 +1! The Node and the iFi are both competent excellent streamers!

I love the optical isolation from Sonore but I use Roon. Not sure but I think it can do streaming w/o roon. You might need computer then.  Innuos would be nice choice. Hear their app is very good. Ephoney is good too. Not sure of the spelling there 

Don't be fast to dump your Freya+. Paired with the M1200s? Yum.

IMHO Try your darnedest to avoid WiFi. Run a cable. (CAT6 is good for about 300'.) It takes time, but you get used to drilling holes through your walls. And floors. And those long drill bits are cool. 
 

Your DAC has an I2s in.  You should find a streamer with I2s output.  Ps Audio is coming out with the AirLens in October for $2K.  It will galvanically isolate from the wired ethernet..not sure about wifi..but personally I prefer wired if I can get rid of ethernet noise and that will be what the AirLens does..then I2s out and that should go directly into your DAC and since  I2s carries all clock information, the DAC doesn't have to reconstruct the streamer's output.

@jasonbourne52 and inexpensive.

The Node and the iFi are both competent excellent streamers!

Bricasti M5 Network Streamer took my streaming to another level. Only an Ethernet cable, no Wifi, no computer cables,  just a network connection. Should be a good companion to your Terminator. Check it out

Streamers without DACs sound broadly similar in my experience.  However you do need a good interface to access your music which you lose by abandoning Bluesound.  I recommend Roon - it is even better than Bluos and will revolutionize your listening.   You would need a 'roon-ready’ streamer.  I recommend Pro-Ject Stream box S2 ultra as a good wifi or wired streamer (no dac). Or the Auralic Aries G1. The latter is a lot more expensive but in my a/b testing was no better in sound quality.

You already have Terminator 2 as a DAC. If you have node as well, buy Denafrips Gaia. Digital to Digital converter which will improve all the problems of Node before sending signal to Terminator 2, you get significant improvement without extra 5K. Gaia  is $1800. If source is not gonna be combined DAC, don’t waste your money with more expensive servers, at the end all sends 0 and 1s to DAC.

If source is not gonna be combined DAC, don’t waste your money with more expensive servers, at the end all sends 0 and 1s to DAC.

Haha! I was waiting for the '0s and 1s' argument to show up. Applying the same logic, why invest in a nice DAC or DDCs. It's all 0s and 1s after all, right?

Why do you never read about Streamer A vs Streamer B ? Cause noboby

can hear a difference. It is all in the DAC. Uptone Audio Etherregen-$650 buy one.

I use an Innuos Zen 3 also. Does more than you want but is DAC less. 

Why do you never read about Streamer A vs Streamer B ? Cause noboby

can hear a difference.

this is overly simplistic, and incorrect

different streamers sound different because they manage noise, clocking, power supply, and physical isolation differently - the sonic difference can be quite noticeable to quite subtle to insignificant... depending on the network, cabling, and of course the quality of system downstream to resolve those differences

I know the Vault is not an option but just in case I wanted to share that I have two Vaults over 5 years and both failed, the first was replaced the second not. It failed during an upgrade, but since out of warranty all they offered was a reconditioned older unit at half the retail.

I wonder how I can still have hifi equipment from the 1980s that works fine and a reputable manufacturer such as Bluesound seems to be OK with some of their equipment failing within 3 years.

not to throw another streamer (there are many) but you can consider Lumin U1 or the new U2 Mini streamer/transport

@tahsin1022 +1 on Lumin U1 or U2 but they are not wireless as the OP asked for, I think the OP should reconsider and try to figure out a wired connection otherwise he is not going to be able to optimize for ultimate SQ.

I use a Lindemann Limetree Bridge.  It is excellent. Solid as a rock, very good sound quality. Outputs are Coax/ Toslink only. It drives a Denafrips Ares 2 then Tube Hybrid Vincent pre/ power amps. 

has anyone compared the Lumi mini to the Node or IFI Zen Stream?

You lost me here: have balanced outputs to go to my DAC.

What do you mean by ’upgrade to higher quality’? Quality of what? As long as the signal is in the digital domain there is no upgrade in the sound. You plan to use a separate DAC, so all you need from the streamer is to have a good wifi connection and a nice user interface. The Bluesound is very good at that. Any Apple or Android tablet, or a silent laptop or fanless PC will do fine too.

Full disclosure - I’m co-owner and developer of the Network Acoustics Ethernet Filters.

I wanted to add to this thread the result of my experience over many years of trying to achieve the best sound from streaming based systems.

I’ve listened to the following Ethernet delivery methods, which have been mentioned in this thread, all using the same Auralic Aries Femto streamer.

1. Direct wired physical connection via RJ45 from upstream network switch

2. Inbuilt Wireless connection.

3. Ethernet over the mains power-line extenders to the Auralic RJ45 port.

4. Ethernet from a WiFi extender to the Auralic RJ45 port.

5. Media converters, RJ45 to Optical and then Optical back to RJ45 and into the Aries RJ45 port.

To my ears, the order of sound quality was 1., 2., then 3. and 4. were pretty much the same, and the 5. Option 1. is still the way to go if at all possible.

The thing that changes everything though, when using all these options other than built in wireless, is to try to remove the ‘noise’ that Ethernet is infected with.

Option 1. has less noise, whereas the extra devices used in options 3., 4. and 5. Introduce additional noise.

you can reduce noise in all options (except 2.) by having an Ethernet switch (with decent PSU) between the ‘extending device RJ45 output’ and your streamer. The noise can be further reduced by using passive Ethernet filters too.

I’ve found with the correct noise reduction measures in place, options 3. and 4. Can sound very very close to 1. and better than 2.

I’m afraid that I’ve never managed to get option 5. to sound good, but still working on that.

I hope that helps.

@ Malibu457

I had a Node 2i and upgraded to a Lumin U1 Mini and thought it worthwhile. There was an improvement for sure, especially in imaging and sense of air. More subtle than a  DAC upgrade though. The OP already has an excellent DAC, A streamer upgrade will allow him to utilize it’s full potential.

One consideration is how the streamer will access ripped or purchased music files so worth looking into the particulars of that with respect to any given streamer.

The OP wants wireless. The Lumin must have wired ethernet. I did not have easy access to wired ethernet where I have my Lumin but used an TP Powerline extender. This solution works flawlessly and is what a prominent retailer recommends.

Wireless with a mesh network providing a nice strong signal has been as good or better than wired Ethernet for me.

I recently bought a second hand Antipodes EX for £2,000 - they are £4,000 new.

It is a very high end piece of kit and can operate in lots of different ways streamer/server/roon end point.

The EX came out in 2018 so it's still up-to-date tech and ultimately reducing noise and improving timing is what a good server should do.

+1 @andyrowe 

I have 3 systems in my home, so when I went for Bluesound I bought a Vault2 and two Node2.  Both the Vault and one of the Nodes died at separate times during updates.  I have spent many frustrating hours dealing with Bluesound that I won’t recapitulate here.  I ultimately purchased a Melco N100 which has been extremely reliable and sound’s terrific.  Bluesound is a good starting place for streaming for audiophiles that are unsure if streaming will fit their needs but people shouldn’t view it as some kind of audio jewel that will be passed on to their heirs

Another vote for an Auralic Aries G2 here. Ticks all the OP requirements.

Excellent quality, 

I have the Bluesound Node 2i.  I  put a new power supply in it for $130. I have richer fuller bass and an open airier sound.  This board also has reliability improvements.  Also added an aftermarket power cord.  Anything you can do to lower the noise floor is desirable. 

The power supply is made by Pd Creative.  Teddy Pardo makes them as well but the part costs as much as the Bluesound. 

Thank you, all, for the great suggestions, helpful responses, and clarification of my apparent misuse of the term "balanced". To those illuminati who were confused and/or offended by my error, I offer my most sincere apology.

Streaming is quite new to me. I have been away from the hobby for almost 30 years (the Thiels are proof, purchased new by me back in the late 90s), and I have found the learning curve to be steep for my analog mind. I will do my best to choose my terms much more carefully in the future. Lesson learned.

For the best result, it sounds like I need to figure out a way to hardwire (I think that's the correct term) the streamer to my modem.

@daledeee1 I did the same thing, and the Teddy Pardo seemed unnecessarily expensive.

@jjss49 

different streamers sound different because they manage noise, clocking, power supply, and physical isolation differently - the sonic difference can be quite noticeable to quite subtle to insignificant... depending on the network, cabling, and of course the quality of system downstream to resolve those differences

As usual, this is right on the money. Too often, people either fire off a quick answer like -- "It's just 1's and 0's" or "It will be better because it's more expensive, good reviews, etc."

The questions folks on forums have to ask themselves when considering new equipment is: 

(a) Is my system good enough and not-bottlenecked-elsewhere such that this upgrade will be noticeable (e.g., Can I avoid confirmation bias?)?

and 

(b) Will I be able to do a trial basis with the new unit and do an A/B comparison to test things out?

If one is unwilling to answer those questions, then one would be more honest with oneself if they just admitted they just want to buy the new unit for the fun or looks or bragging rights, etc. Because without the above control factors, sound improvement is not being earnestly interrogated.

“For the best result, it sounds like I need to figure out a way to hardwire (I think that’s the correct term) the streamer to my modem.”

@cowhorn

That’s correct. Especially if you’re going to drop $$$$ on a high end streamer like Aries G2. Don’t get discouraged, it’s doable with a mesh network extenders. Just go to Amazon and search for 2-Pack which includes 1 Router (hardwired to your modem) & 1 Satellite (hardwired to your streamer).

This would be a first step to high quality streaming. Even your Node will improve with wired network. 

@richtruss glad to see you post here. I am a happy owner of a Network Acoustics Rubicon switch, a Network Acoustics Muon cable and Muon filter. I had a very nice setup with great sound and ordered the Network Acoustics trio fully expecting to send it all back within the trial period, but I was committed to being open minded and give it a try.

Let me just say that many of us don’t realize what we are hearing and what it sounds like when we are NOT hearing noise. I’m an unapologetic fan of the Network Acoustics product line, I kept all three and appreciate that a manufacturer made the thankless and risky move to hop into the mosh pit that Audiogon forums can sometimes be.

@ghasley @richtruss 

Thank you both for your posts. After hearing the improvements from a high quality Ethernet switch and filters, I no longer consider these devices as accessories. Ethernet switch with LPS (if needed), noise filter and LAN cables are must have components for any high resolution digital streaming system. 

Sorry, I meant Auralic Aries G1, or more properly, now the G1.1

The Rose audio rs250 would be good but it has a Dac... so to bad. The Rose radio selections are great too.

The node is pretty hard to beat functionality wise. When you take it a step further with a linear power supply it’s even harder performance wise. I’m all for getting the best of the best that I can afford for my system, but with some simple and inexpensive upgrades, it’s a really nice streaming option. However, if the money is burning a hole in your pocket to get a new high end streamer, then have at it. I’ve found a great place to be with my node at this point. Good luck. 

it’s not clear which Node you have. If it is not then latest NODE 130, note that almost everyone agrees it sounds noticeably better than the 2i. I found that both the Node 2i and the NODE 130 can both be improved in a way that sounds obviously better with an external power supply. Inwas so happy with the improvement to my 2i that the British Fidelity Audio PSU made to it that I waited until FA had the fitment sorted for their upgrades and ordered my NODE from them with both the PSU module and a clock board installed by them. It arrived in LA two weeks after ordering and sounded so good that when I later was auditioning new speakers, the speakers I purchased sounded as good at home as they had in the showroom through a $2500 streaming DAC. It also wasn’t that expensive compared to buying a NODE in LA as I was not charged VAT and laid know CA sales tax. I now use it to stream through a Gustard X26 pro DAC. As a streamer only, I am fully satisfied, especially as I really enjoy the Bluesound operating system.

And if you will be listening to music on your wofe’s

system, you will definitely enjoy it more if you change out the PSU. I am not a DIY person, but even I was able to install the FA PSU replacement module in 20 minutes. Whether you also get a FA linear PSU or another quality one is up to you.