WC ----sorry I did not get back to you sooner regarding the Alexia's. I did not own them but when I was on my speaker hunt, I compared the Alexia's to the Magico's and SF and the Sasha 2's. They were all driven by AR tube amps. I thought the Magico's had a lot of punch. Very clear and concise. To me they easily beat out the Alexia's. That said, my ear wanted a different sound so I ended up buying the SF Amati Homage Tradition, which is a little more softer or concert like sound. I made the right choice for me as they are driven by a Raven Integrated Reflection Tube amp that generates 72 wpc power which easily drives the SF's. I have had thoughts of sending you my amp just to get your impressions. I also have a Laufner Teknik memory player and Emm Lab DAC 2x2V that really enhances my sound. Peace.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
Viber, I appreciated your comments here re Emotiva and Bryston. I do think Bryston is a stellar product particularly the cubed series and particularly if you’re looking for ruthless honesty in how your equipment reproduces recordings. I’m still on the fence with regard to whether that’s what I truly want (in which case the Bryston is a superb choice) or rather what I truly want is something that will make "most" recordings sound a bit better than they should (which is why I’ll be trying out the Pass XA series. I couldn’t care less what people "think" about my choices as I’m not out to impress anyone. As a matter of fact most of my friends wouldn't know a Bryston from a Pass from a Pioneer receiver so really I mean in real life, people actually make fun of those of us who get a little obsessive about this hobby. I do think that the Bryston 4b3 amp at $6000 is safely out of mid-fi territory price wise so for those who need the status of the high price you do actually have that with Bryston but you also have a great product that will last you forever. It is beautifully crafted gear made to last decades and has an actual warranty to match...that’s another significant point in its favor as far as I’m concerned. |
Pwhinson, thanks for your ideas. We have in common the view that the purpose of fine audio is to please yourself primarily. I take this to the extreme because my Audiostatic 240 is highly directional so that the sweet spot is only an inch or so. Roger Sanders of Sanders Sound Systems takes this view because any deviation off axis will roll off the highs especially. For maximum info, only 1 listener can get the maximum experience. This is especially true for electrostatics, but even wider dispersion dynamic speakers display this characteristic, so toe-in is always best to get max info. The curved panel approach of Martin Logan and Soundlab will enlarge the sweet spot for more listeners, but then everyone gets the same inferior sound. Getting back to Bryston, which of the cubed amps did you hear in your own system? I spoke to Bryston tech support about my findings that the 2.5 B SST2 was far superior in detail and speed to the larger amps. Despite the official line that all the amps have the same design and sound the same, he admitted that the 2.5 may be better because of the shorter signal path. I have always found that larger amps suffer from the multiple sets of transistors required with the potential for mismatches in characteristics. This is analogous to the chorus effect--listen to the violin section play a melody and then when the concertmaster plays alone, there is more focus and detail. With a chorus of voices, the effect is the same. So I mostly listen to chamber and solo music where there is a single instrument playing each line. A lot of jazz is really chamber music. |
@ whitecamaross, Hi, Although you did not give the legacy krell 700cx a fair shake by not usein the amplifier correctly, I won't hold against you forever, lol!, my main system has the modified krell 700cx, this may be of interest to you, first off, welcome to the magico family, I have said many time's that I have a love hate relationship with magico, you may research your own thread here, might have mentioned it here, anyway, I have the magico q3 speaker's on my second system along with the Luxman L-509X, if you have questions, by all means ask, let's say currently everyone is incorrect about toe in of magico here on this thread, you need to realize magico tweeters are hot!, second, the q3 has a lot more resolution than the S5 mk2, magico recently discontinued the q3 and replaced by the m 3 speaker's, you also need to know the current flagship magico speaker's other than their insane horn speaker's is the magico Q7 mk2, cheers😎 |
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Audio labyrinth can you provide data that the Q3 out resolve S5Mk2 when they have all the newest drivers and Q3s have 8 year old technology? Have you heard them side by side or is it just hearsay? Magicos improve every generation not only in drivers but enclosures. The hearsay I hear is just the opposite...that the Q3s are more in the league of the S3Mk2s. Also the M series have no resemblance to the Q series, in a different league altogether. But all that said..the Q3s represent a bargain in the used market going for less that the S3Mk2s that I own. Cheers..... |
@dguitarnut Q3 don't outperform S5 mkii on the contrary..., I would take the S5mkii all day over the Q3. On whatsbestforum, they say the same exact thing, even some who have heard the Ultimates prefer the S5mkii. Sure someone who owns older Q3 will try to convinced himself that they are better , a way of getting rid of buyer's remorse. |
WC--Thinking of SOTA for you, I just refreshed my memory of the Wisdom Audio line source planar magnetics. Much better in sound than anything of Magnepan, because of the superior build and magnet technology. The Sage L75 is tall and skinny, so it is room friendly, and priced comparably to your Magico. They don't weigh a lot, although you will find a dealer in Florida who can show you the flagship Wisdom series which are monsters. Enjoy your Magico, but before you go all out and spend $100K or more on Constellation amps or the bigger Magicos, give the Wisdom a listen. I think your Magico is the sweet spot and value of the whole line. Some time ago, I spoke to an engineer at Constellation when the Inspiration series came out. He said the circuitry is practically identical to the Centaur and higher lines, so there is no need to spend more than $11K retail for the Inspiration 200 watt stereo amp, 400 watts for your 4 ohm impedance Magico. Audio Advisor often has a sale on it for $9K or less, all with a no risk 30 day trial. Also, since you have liked Mark Levinson, their current top 534 and 536 amps at $20K and $30K can be considered. The Stereophile reviews of them indicate precision and speed yet with a smidgen of warmth that you like. |
Why would WC open the Sopra’s ? ( 1 ) The Magico’s did not do it for him. ( 2 ) Curiosity got the best of him. ( 3 ) It is all about the journey, to find that holy grail. ( 4 ) The real mission here is to have fun, experience, and share, much of his findings with others who cannot do what he does. Or,( 5 ) All of the above. WC, I do hope one day, you can sit in front of a system, and not wish for anything else, as I do ( and, knowing that there is always better ). Enjoy ! MrD. |
Ok guys. I see a lot of enthusiasm in regards to the sopra 3s! Ok so they now have about 30 hours playtime. Here are 3 of my initial impressions: 1. Huge bass 2. Smooth highs with absolutely zero fatigue. It doesn’t matter what recording you play, the speakers don’t sound bright. 3. They disappear like Houdini. Mids are dead center and everything is really well balanced. More to come in the next few days. They are really REALLY a satisfying speaker. Nothing sounds bad at all as long as you can control your bass. The diablo puts out massive bass with them but the ref10 and simaudio do not. This my first rodeo With focal and Im telling many here it’s a damn steal. It’s an awesome speaker for the money. Is it better than the magico? Don’t ask... I won’t answer that because they are very different speakers. How different? I guess you all will need to stay tuned to find out... |
Hi @whitecamaross this thread has been a wonderful read and it is indeed very exciting to read about your journey. I also have Focal Sopra 3’s that I got about a year ago. I agree that the bass is very authorative. I don’t really have much experience with different speakers and electronics but I do find the sound of my system quite good. However, on some tracks, such as Adele and some other female vocals, I feel the highs do get fatiguing. It could be an issue with my room acoustics or speaker setup or even my electronics. I am currently running Tidal on PS Audio Direct Stream Dac going directly via XLR to AVM Audio M5 Mono Blocks. Would love to hear how you setup your speakers or what I could do in general to get the speakers setup properly like you have. Thanks and happy listening! BT |
@bilaltata Those recordings are fatiguing / bright. If your system is neutral and resolving, Adele etc. will remain bright and fatiguing on some (if not many) tracks. I'd consider (and be thoughtful about this) that what you are finding is accurate and not the fault of your system. Can it be fixed? Yes, but at what cost to properly recorded quality music? |
@whitecamaross I did try inserting my Restek Preamp and it did sweeten the sound but I definelty felt that i lost resolution and clarity. Maybe need a better Preamp. Please do share with us how you have positioned the Sopras. @david_ten Yes it could very well be the case because I don’t feel the harshness on most tracks. Maybe it’s just the recording and not my system. Thank you for your advice. |
my sopras are literally thrown in the room and directly in front of to magicos. I just toed them in directly at me and i am about 9 feet away from them. I have not even tried to get them set up properly. You know, the focal sopra 3 reminds me so much of the revel salon 2. It is incredible how much it brings back memories of those speakers. That said, i had my wife listen to one track yesterday on the focal and then the magico and she chose the focal over the magico. This was also the same result with the person who helped me unpack the focals. He also chose them over the magicos. I must get high powered amps for the magicos. What is making others choose the focals is their ability to spread the sound effortlessly with my current amps and the magicos although they do sound great, i feel they fall behind due to the lack of massive power. I suspect the magicos need just brute horsepower in order to sing more. Yes, now that the focals are here, i can tell their differences a little better. Yea, the bass on the focal gives the music this feeling of fullness that seems to be lacking on the magico due to its sealed design and also because again i dont have at least 500 watts per channel strapped to them. Maybe with more power i can get a sense of fullness from the magicos. See how one never knows differences unless you own both of them at once? Of course if you get the magicos into your home you will blown away because they are an incredible instrument, but you would not know what else would satisfy you unless you had another speaker in there to try. It is kinda like my daughter; she has never tasted any sort of soda so she does not know how good it feels to drink an ice cold coke so all she knows is her apple juice is really good too, but once she tries it for the first time then she will most likely be tasting something different that also excites her taste buds. You don’t know what you are missing in what you have unless you have something else to compare it to right in your own room. Of course the magicos will feel a little underpowered, even slightly anemic at times, but i can say that because 3 minutes before i got done listening to the sopras with full bottom end. |
WC, I've auditioned the Magico S1 and A3 before, and what you've said about Magico make total sense to me. I also do think Magicos sound good, but they do need high power to shine. I've never heard the Sopra before, but I do have experience with the Focal JM Labs Diva Utopia Be. To me, I would prefer speakers that are easier to drive so I would not be limited to the amps I can try to make them sound the best. |
I have the Sopra 3 and appreciate your impressions since you've listened to many more speakers then i ever have. I have mine toed in slightly as I feel the imaging is best that way but it could be room dependent. Im running mine with a Mark Levinson 534. The Sopras are easy to drive but do benefit from a lot of current. I believe the impedance goes down to 3.1ohm. They take along time to break in so they will only get better for you. Thanks for your thread |
whitecamaross...It's like i said before ,i love the MartinLogan sound, but the Focal Sopra 3 left an impression on me. It sounded "unboxy". That's a rarity for me. Usually i can't get past the cone driver setup. If i went "box", Sopra 3 would be under my roof for sure. And i wouldn't look back. mikepaul |
You should go back to the Magico before you make a final decision, you are getting smitten by the things that will ultimately drive you crazy (excessive bass). The mid bass regain on these is pumped up, that will be cool on some pieces, but try female vocal or chamber music (: I am also surprised you are not offended by the grainy top end, the S5 Mk2 tweeter is substantially better. |
WC--take your time to appreciate the virtues of each speaker. There is no rush--you own them both. If you have come to appreciate the accuracy of the Magico versus the pleasantness of the Focal, it may take time for you to formulate your true values. My first audiophile speaker was the Maggie Tympani 1D way back in 1978. I used to bang away and play loudly, but I got bored and realized I wanted precision in the soundstage and maximum information to really hear the music, so I have been happy with my unique small electrostatics since about 1983. I listen at average levels of 60-70 dB with peaks in the 90's. When I try more powerful amps that are less revealing, I get bored with loudness per se if the clarity suffers. It's like a shouting match when what you really want is a soft, stimulating conversation with thoughtful people who speak clearly and don't mumble. |
I may buy a pair of 28b3 Brystons or believe it or not, a pair of 1.25kw McIntosh to see if their horsepower does anything. I played around with the magico more Today and tried to get the right toe in, listening distance, etc and I got them to sound much better. They are so damn incredible with certain music. I need to get better amps. I just have a gut feeling on this one. |
To causally read this thread it's easy to come to the conclusion that whitecamaross is crazy, but I've talked to whitecamaross several times and submit he's just trying to build the ultimate system for him. I think all of us have had similar journeys. We just haven't documented our journey or for the most part traveled as far as he has in such a relatively short time. My intent isn't to tell him what he should prefer, but to share my experience with him. Speakers are the most difficult component to get right because the room and other components have such an impact on their sound. As I read his comments, I can't help but to think of a pair of Rockport Aviors I listened to several years ago. Compared to a very popular speaker that I had at the time, the Aviors were too balanced. Absolutely nothing stood out with the Aviors and I thought they were boring, not exciting enough. It's funny how experience can change the way we hear things. I sold the speakers I had and now when I hear the Aviors(I don't own them) I just think WOW, they are so musical. In my humble opinion I suggest you really listen to each speaker and think about which speaker sounds the most balanced to your ears. When certain frequencies standout, it can easily fool our ears/brains to make us think it sounds better. Just a little food for thought. |
You are spot on. That’s why I’ve not given up on them. I just bought a laser tape measurer to get things as dialed in as possible. They need to be positioned perfectly and yes I won’t ever get the bass the focals give me but man they sound so deep and it feels as if someoek opened another door behind the music. We will see where I end up. Will it be the focals ? Will I stay with Magico ? we shall see... |
I see the Sopras listing as well. WC is spending time getting the Magicos dialed in, and it seems from the description in the listing that spending time dialing in the Focals would be a benefit for them as well. And, while WC thinks that better amps will help improve the sonics from the Magicos, it might also help to improve the sonics from the Focals. Looking forward to how this progresses for both speakers... Dave |
whitecamaross...more important than anything: how is that AUDI BLUE??????? |
Hi guys: just came home with a pair of amps I did not expect to bring back but I needed to try more horsepower on the magicos. Guess what ? I was damn right! They need gobbs of power. I just strapped on a pair of McIntosh 601s and man the speakers just sound 30% percent better easily. They sound larger, the excess high frequency energy from some recordings has receded and now they sound much more dynamic. It’s as if they took a shot of steroids by getting more current from monos. I’m very happy with this result. I will keep listening and will report back. I will try the focals at some point tonight. Let’s see !!! |