My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by mikepaul

whitecamaross..you have given honest and amazing input. thank you!

you assigned the krell duo 300 a favorable grade. do you have experience with the top krell illusion preamp?

i am awaiting delivery of the duo 300 amp and illusion pre-amp.

i will run them thru martin logan 13a’s in conjunction with a meridian 808.2 cd player and auralic vega dac.....also,running very good MIT cables

i haven’t auditioned the krell stuff.   this is a leap of faith.    your thoughts?

thanks

mike


whitecamaross,

What a fantastic thread. So much info to chew on!

Have you listened to an Audible Illussion preamp? I haven't tried many preamps but this is a stellar unit. If so, how would you compare it to the ARC REF6?

thanks

 mike
Fsonicsmith...do u have all ARC gear?  What speakers?

I have the ref6 with a krell amp duo 300 but I am considering the ARC 150 SE

I use Martin Logan 13A speakers.  I love the sound of my system but after I got the ref6  I became an ARC super fan. 

Mike
doesn't the boulder need to break in?...sounds like you are passing a judgement already. it's brand new and you have played it at a low volume level. my gear sounded  way different at lift-off.

all your questions should be answered over the course of weeks if not months. like you said =you have to become familiar with it's sonic signature.

really enjoy your thread!  good luck!

 mike
Jonaiken.

What speakers do you have now. And what are your source components
 

mike


whitecamaross  am still surprised the martin-logans ( 15a and clx) were not good enough for you. especially with the superior electronics that have been utilized.

i have the 13a's now paired with audio research, krell ,meridian and mit.    amazing, amazing sound( to me). 
and i have been using m-l's for decades.    i can never go back to a conventional speaker system "sound" --no matter how "good".     but that's just me.

but once people experience stats many can never go back.

not starting a speaker war.   just surprised that you didn't get hooked.

mike
whitecamaross  this is fascinating thread. i wish that i was your next door neighbor because i would spend more time at your house than mine!   lol...anyway ..wow! big change! 

have you ( or will you ) audition the martin logan neoliths prior to purchase?

i know that you were very pleased with m- logans in the past so i can foresee you loving the neoliths down the road. but, you seem to have a broad appreciation of many types of speakers. so all bets are off if they will last that long..lol

i,myself, am committed to the martin logan brand and i can't seem to relax and give conventional speakers a chance any longer.

i fully understand that that they offer things that others speakers can not. but the reverse is also true.

i still believe that  some sort of sacrifice still must be made when choosing a speaker type. whether it be dynamics,sensitivity, bass power, transparency etc.

the big question: will the neolith conquer both worlds.

through your ears we all hoping to find out!!!

 mike


whitecamaross   thanks . at least we get to share our experiences in this forum.
 and ,truthfully, your reviews are so detailed that i think we all have gotten a real flavor of the stuff you have acquired over the years. 

and, especially, if any of us have actually owned some items that you have described it just adds to our perception as to what you are hearing across the board...that's why this is such a great thread,imho!

mike 
Congrats on your sale. ...good luck moving forward. ..excited to see this through with you.

 mike
whitecamaross

i have followed the entire thread, but i can't recall what sources you use. i.e. CD player and / or analog front end, streamer /dac etc..


what is your main listening source? brand/model

thanks


mike
Whitecamaross

i liked the car analogy.      and let's not forget your purpose to all this: find what is musically satisfying to your ears.     NOT to do everything in your power to make the boulder amp/brand fit into your system.

i will use a car analogy myself: a ford compact with all the fancy gadgets..or a stripped down camaro ( i think i can guess which one you would take--lol)

in other words, why the hell do i have to upgrade all these peripherals i.e.;cables,power conditioners and whatever else to compensate for an unsatisfactory piece of gear !!!

an amp should most be persuaded by a superior preamp and superior source. you have that,for sure. the result is then translated thru your speakers of choice.

imho, i believe that you have already crossed the path many times of having a great amp preamp and so forth.

and at this point ,with your favorite gear plugged in, it is time to create you"signature" sound.

how? revisit square one! SPEAKERS.

mike






 
Ref 10?....I can understand that. When i got my Ref6 it became the one piece i could never do without. The best piece that I will ever own.

Congrats on your revelation.

Mike
Whitecamaross....yes I have to seriously consider the simaudio 860A...the krell is excellent..but the synergy might be a little better with the sim...the krell is a little high strung in my setup. Still good...but could be better ( more refined)

thanks again for your insight

 mike
whitecamaross

my head is spinning from glossing over this thread.

i think we all need a mini-summary of your favorite gear to date.

maybe a top 3 in each category: speakers,preamp,amp etc.

i realize that there is a lot of variables involved so a detailed synopsis is not requested ...

just a quick list? 

thanks

 mike



thanks so much for posting that list,whitecamaross.

this has been an incredibly informative thread.  a totally new
twist on the"professional" reviews .

i think we really obtained a legitimate flavor of all the gear that you have tested.

but ,in addition, it has also been a "fun" thread.   no hostility or craziness.   i am especially grateful for that!!!! 

keep rollin'

mike


whitecamaross as much as i would love to see you follow through on the neolith i can’t help but feel that they might not live up to your expectations. (considering the $$$$$) that is a lot of time and expense and trouble to set this whole thing up . selfishly i want to see it through ,but i would hate to see your efforts and visions go unfulfilled.

i have the m-logan 13a..and i have listened to 11a,15a..they all have the similar martin logan "sound".

none disappoint ( if m-logan sound is what someone is drawn to)

i don’t think the 15a is worth 10 grand more than the 13a imho. i guess it would/might be required only if the listening room is extra large. mine is 15’ by 16’.

will the neoliths be two or three times better than your 15a's? that's the million dollar question.

these beasts will need room to breath. i realize you do not need to be advised of all of this.

but i think as individuals ,we all have imagined at some point where our individual musical chairs would have ended somewhere in the past 25 pages of this thread.

if i stepped in your shoes,my system,comprised of your gear,lol, would be:

the martin logan 15a’s , audio research ref10, pass labs 350.8

i already have a nice meridian 808.2 cd player and pro-ject 12 xtension tt with palo santos cartridge.

at that point i would call it a day and talk to ya in 10 years!! lol

good luck!

mike



sleepysurf

regarding the 13a vs 15a... i have the 13a's and they are perfect for my room size.

 i listened to both and the sound is similar as i have been saying but there is just MORE of it 
 as you advance thru the model lineup--11a 13a 15a

my car analogy:  porsche cayman or porsche cayman s  ......same great car, one has more HP

throwing a pair of 15a's in my 15' by 16'  room would be like stuffing an 8 cylinder in a miata.

that said, i listened to the 15a's at my dealer's xtra large room and they sounded super great. if and when i have a much larger room i would trade up and get these.

i would never consider a conventional speaker as the martin logan brand has offered much of what i am looking for in the sound i prefer.   but,to each his own.

one speaker cannot provide everything, but my martin- logan's sure dot most of my I's and cross most of my T's

 mike 




Jonaiken..i never had the pleasure to hear any of your stuff,but  obviously top notch. 

doesn't seem you will need to upgrade anytime soon. ...or ever.

 mike
Ok..the 13a's......the same speakers that "didnt last 12 hours in my house"

Wow this had to be some deal ,especially the way you destroyed these in the past...."going from 13a to 15a was MASSIVE  jump"

Ok i get it.new room etc etc..confused,but i will go along
whitecamaross,

13a's will absolutely tell you all about electronics downstream. 

although my system sounded good, in a similar circumstance as yours, i called a very well respected hi-end place and asked them what the trade-in value was for my 13a for 15a's.

instead of just trying to make money from me, he was puzzled as to why i felt i needed the 15a.  he said i have a world class speaker and i should look to see about upgrades within my system instead.

so that's what i did.   and one of those pieces was a ref 6 which ALLOWED the rest of my components and speakers ..to be great!!!!

without a superior preamp, which i now firmly believe is the heart of any system, the sound system will never reach it's full potential.

your ref 10 reaction was similar to my ref 6 reaction..lol.

your ref10 (lucky you!) and 13a's , i believe , will ALLOW you to instantly recognize any signature sound any of your components or speakers provide.

looking forward to your reports!

 mike



whitecamaross

i know you are familiar with martin logans but i have to mention this quick 13a setup tip....the first thing a lot of listeners do is toe in the speaker  and blast them right towards the sweet spot.  

i listen to mine about 8 or 9 feet apart center to center...but the KEY is that i position them straight ahead and toed in ONLY about 1 1/2 inches..that's it!

these speakers are so transparent and provide so much info that pointing them directly at you overloads the senses and overwhelms the listener. this will create a more relaxing listen but still allow the speaker to shine all of its' attributes through.

no disrespect to you by me mentioning this. i just have to throw this out there for you or anyone else who has these types of speakers....( of course--to each his own--- i understand that!)

just my02cents

if you haven't already ,give it a try. let me know.

mike
i just put my REF 6 on the curb.   the welding machine i "stole" from the hi-end audio place down the block is waaaay better!!

the highs!   the lows!   the in-betweens!

WOW WOW WOW!!
whitecamaross

i think you are finally on to something. ==your aiwa bookshelf speakers, and i will add a sanyo welder system, a sansui something-or-other, i will also borrow riaa's vintage "close and play" turntable from 1968

..all tied together with 38 gauge radio shack premium speaker wire

..we will then make sure the whole system is hardwired into top of the electric pole outside the house to realize the systems full potential....!!

( i challenge anyone who claims they hear a difference between this setup and theirs!!)

then i am going straight down to the scrap metal place and hope i can get a couple of dollars for my over -priced ,over-rated audio gear.


No such thing as a keeper in the whitecamaross universe. Especially under 5k.
so i guess the wilson's are a keeper then?

..or, now that you have found your ideal pre/amplification setup it now time to once again play musical chairs with different pairs of speakers again?
Heard the krell solo 575 monos at a friends house paired with a ref6 and 20.1 magnepans.  Very nice.  Krell Is overlooked nowadays but still very good.
WC,...thanks for the update.

 Curious. What was your opinion of the Focal Sopra 3? Both in relation to your Wilsons and standing on it's own merit.

 thanks

 mike
this thread is like the movie  "2001 a space odyssey".

 it's left to your own interpretation.

Whitecamaross...in your opinion ,is my krell duo 300 in the midfi category also or somewhere in between?

Thanks,your opinion is greatly appreciated!

Mike
audiolabyrinth and WC..i would imagine you guys are using a 30amp dedicated?

i mean ..the expensive power cables.you know?
Focal Sopra 3 is an excellent speaker.

If I didn't love the Martin logan sound,they would be my box speakers of choice.

The orange ones sound the best....lol
WCSS....just by chance i happened to listen to the Focal Sopra 3.   i was at a dealer to pick up my turntable.

as you might remember, i love the martin logan sound.  he had a pair of 15a's set up in the adjacent listening room.   so i was able to audition both. 
 the electronics were mcintosh ( not the biggest mac fan but it sounded good) .  music was streamed.   again, not ideal. but....

i won't describe the Sopra sound but they left me an IMPRESSION on me. WOW!

i had listened to many cone driver speakers along my personal journey and this is the one that i could live with.   overall i preferred the 15a's.  but that's just me.

i own the M-L 13a's , and i could never give them up.

the focal?

can anyone say "second system? hmm lol

mike
i'm very anxious for the WC Focal Sopra 3 review.

for me personally, i will get a good feel,speaker-wise,of WC's impressions since we both will have shared listening experiences with martin-logan and focal.

my 2 top speaker choices!!

(wished i lived next door!!  gggrrrrrr..lol)


"i favor holographic imaging, detail, soundstage size over bass"

WC, your quote fits the description of Martin-Logans like a glove.

You had the 15a's waaay back in this thread. Please let us know where they fall in your pecking order after you audition your new speakers  this week.

thanks

mikepaul
WC..if you love AND hate it...it's no good.

i left my ex -girlfriend for that same reason...

next up!
WC....just because you critically review a speaker or amp or whatever and feel you found something better, that does NOT diminish the previous piece of equipment!!

nor does it mean the piece is no good.

it’s falls within the avalanche of reviews you have described.

i think we all understand that.

if you keep the focal or magico does that make every post / review irrelevant? no.

does it make one or the other bad? or crap? no.

initially, you bashed the m-l 13a’s compared to the 15a’s.

does that mean the 13a’s turned into polk speakers??? no

the bottom line is that no matter what anyone says is: does a speaker or amp sound good to YOU!?

and is this what you EXPECT from high end audio?

and does the money spent meet expectations?

i have some equipment that you reviewed in the first few pages..13’s ,ref6, etc.

is it junk now because you moved on from them...uhhh...no

i am thrilled with what i have.

and you are enjoying a "high end merry -go- round".

we are all happily on the carousel.

mikepaul