whitecamaross..you have given honest and amazing input. thank you!
you assigned the krell duo 300 a favorable grade. do you have experience with the top krell illusion preamp?
i am awaiting delivery of the duo 300 amp and illusion pre-amp.
i will run them thru martin logan 13a’s in conjunction with a meridian 808.2 cd player and auralic vega dac.....also,running very good MIT cables
i haven’t auditioned the krell stuff. this is a leap of faith. your thoughts?
thanks
mike
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thank you for the response. i will definitely keep the 350.8 in mind |
whitecamaross,
What a fantastic thread. So much info to chew on! Have you listened to an Audible Illussion preamp? I haven't tried many preamps but this is a stellar unit. If so, how would you compare it to the ARC REF6? thanks mike |
Fsonicsmith...do u have all ARC gear? What speakers?
I have the ref6 with a krell amp duo 300 but I am considering the ARC 150 SE
I use Martin Logan 13A speakers. I love the sound of my system but after I got the ref6 I became an ARC super fan.
Mike |
doesn't the boulder need to break in?...sounds like you are passing a judgement already. it's brand new and you have played it at a low volume level. my gear sounded way different at lift-off.
all your questions should be answered over the course of weeks if not months. like you said =you have to become familiar with it's sonic signature.
really enjoy your thread! good luck!
mike |
Jonaiken.
What speakers do you have now. And what are your source components
mike
|
whitecamaross am still surprised the martin-logans ( 15a and clx) were not good enough for you. especially with the superior electronics that have been utilized. i have the 13a's now paired with audio research, krell ,meridian and mit. amazing, amazing sound( to me). and i have been using m-l's for decades. i can never go back to a conventional speaker system "sound" --no matter how "good". but that's just me. but once people experience stats many can never go back. not starting a speaker war. just surprised that you didn't get hooked. mike |
whitecamaross this is fascinating thread. i wish that i was your next door neighbor because i would spend more time at your house than mine! lol...anyway ..wow! big change! have you ( or will you ) audition the martin logan neoliths prior to purchase? i know that you were very pleased with m- logans in the past so i can foresee you loving the neoliths down the road. but, you seem to have a broad appreciation of many types of speakers. so all bets are off if they will last that long..lol i,myself, am committed to the martin logan brand and i can't seem to relax and give conventional speakers a chance any longer. i fully understand that that they offer things that others speakers can not. but the reverse is also true. i still believe that some sort of sacrifice still must be made when choosing a speaker type. whether it be dynamics,sensitivity, bass power, transparency etc. the big question: will the neolith conquer both worlds. through your ears we all hoping to find out!!! mike |
whitecamaross thanks . at least we get to share our experiences in this forum. and ,truthfully, your reviews are so detailed that i think we all have gotten a real flavor of the stuff you have acquired over the years. and, especially, if any of us have actually owned some items that you have described it just adds to our perception as to what you are hearing across the board...that's why this is such a great thread,imho! mike |
Congrats on your sale. ...good luck moving forward. ..excited to see this through with you.
mike |
whitecamaross
i have followed the entire thread, but i can't recall what sources you use. i.e. CD player and / or analog front end, streamer /dac etc..
what is your main listening source? brand/model
thanks
mike |
Whitecamaross
i liked the car analogy. and let's not forget your purpose to all this: find what is musically satisfying to your ears. NOT to do everything in your power to make the boulder amp/brand fit into your system.
i will use a car analogy myself: a ford compact with all the fancy gadgets..or a stripped down camaro ( i think i can guess which one you would take--lol)
in other words, why the hell do i have to upgrade all these peripherals i.e.;cables,power conditioners and whatever else to compensate for an unsatisfactory piece of gear !!!
an amp should most be persuaded by a superior preamp and superior source. you have that,for sure. the result is then translated thru your speakers of choice.
imho, i believe that you have already crossed the path many times of having a great amp preamp and so forth.
and at this point ,with your favorite gear plugged in, it is time to create you"signature" sound.
how? revisit square one! SPEAKERS.
mike
|
Ref 10?....I can understand that. When i got my Ref6 it became the one piece i could never do without. The best piece that I will ever own.
Congrats on your revelation.
Mike |
The wire world gold eclipse 7?!!! |
Is the new component.......alcohol? |
|
Whitecamaross and fsonicsmith..thank you both for your input!
mike |
Whitecamaross....yes I have to seriously consider the simaudio 860A...the krell is excellent..but the synergy might be a little better with the sim...the krell is a little high strung in my setup. Still good...but could be better ( more refined)
thanks again for your insight
mike |
whitecamaross
my head is spinning from glossing over this thread.
i think we all need a mini-summary of your favorite gear to date.
maybe a top 3 in each category: speakers,preamp,amp etc.
i realize that there is a lot of variables involved so a detailed synopsis is not requested ...
just a quick list?
thanks
mike
|
thanks so much for posting that list, whitecamaross. this has been an incredibly informative thread. a totally new twist on the"professional" reviews . i think we really obtained a legitimate flavor of all the gear that you have tested. but ,in addition, it has also been a "fun" thread. no hostility or craziness. i am especially grateful for that!!!! keep rollin' mike |
whitecamaross as much as i would love to see you follow through on the neolith i can’t help but feel that they might not live up to your expectations. (considering the $$$$$) that is a lot of time and expense and trouble to set this whole thing up . selfishly i want to see it through ,but i would hate to see your efforts and visions go unfulfilled. i have the m-logan 13a..and i have listened to 11a,15a..they all have the similar martin logan "sound". none disappoint ( if m-logan sound is what someone is drawn to) i don’t think the 15a is worth 10 grand more than the 13a imho. i guess it would/might be required only if the listening room is extra large. mine is 15’ by 16’. will the neoliths be two or three times better than your 15a's? that's the million dollar question. these beasts will need room to breath. i realize you do not need to be advised of all of this. but i think as individuals ,we all have imagined at some point where our individual musical chairs would have ended somewhere in the past 25 pages of this thread. if i stepped in your shoes,my system,comprised of your gear,lol, would be: the martin logan 15a’s , audio research ref10, pass labs 350.8 i already have a nice meridian 808.2 cd player and pro-ject 12 xtension tt with palo santos cartridge. at that point i would call it a day and talk to ya in 10 years!! lol good luck! mike |
sleepysurf
regarding the 13a vs 15a... i have the 13a's and they are perfect for my room size.
i listened to both and the sound is similar as i have been saying but there is just MORE of it as you advance thru the model lineup--11a 13a 15a
my car analogy: porsche cayman or porsche cayman s ......same great car, one has more HP
throwing a pair of 15a's in my 15' by 16' room would be like stuffing an 8 cylinder in a miata.
that said, i listened to the 15a's at my dealer's xtra large room and they sounded super great. if and when i have a much larger room i would trade up and get these.
i would never consider a conventional speaker as the martin logan brand has offered much of what i am looking for in the sound i prefer. but,to each his own.
one speaker cannot provide everything, but my martin- logan's sure dot most of my I's and cross most of my T's
mike
|
Jonaiken..i never had the pleasure to hear any of your stuff,but obviously top notch.
doesn't seem you will need to upgrade anytime soon. ...or ever.
mike |
Ok..the 13a's......the same speakers that "didnt last 12 hours in my house"
Wow this had to be some deal ,especially the way you destroyed these in the past...."going from 13a to 15a was MASSIVE jump"
Ok i get it.new room etc etc..confused,but i will go along |
whitecamaross, 13a's will absolutely tell you all about electronics downstream. although my system sounded good, in a similar circumstance as yours, i called a very well respected hi-end place and asked them what the trade-in value was for my 13a for 15a's. instead of just trying to make money from me, he was puzzled as to why i felt i needed the 15a. he said i have a world class speaker and i should look to see about upgrades within my system instead. so that's what i did. and one of those pieces was a ref 6 which ALLOWED the rest of my components and speakers ..to be great!!!! without a superior preamp, which i now firmly believe is the heart of any system, the sound system will never reach it's full potential. your ref 10 reaction was similar to my ref 6 reaction..lol. your ref10 (lucky you!) and 13a's , i believe , will ALLOW you to instantly recognize any signature sound any of your components or speakers provide. looking forward to your reports! mike |
whitecamarossi know you are familiar with martin logans but i have to mention this quick 13a setup tip....the first thing a lot of listeners do is toe in the speaker and blast them right towards the sweet spot. i listen to mine about 8 or 9 feet apart center to center...but the KEY is that i position them straight ahead and toed in ONLY about 1 1/2 inches..that's it! these speakers are so transparent and provide so much info that pointing them directly at you overloads the senses and overwhelms the listener. this will create a more relaxing listen but still allow the speaker to shine all of its' attributes through. no disrespect to you by me mentioning this. i just have to throw this out there for you or anyone else who has these types of speakers....( of course--to each his own--- i understand that!) just my02cents if you haven't already ,give it a try. let me know. mike |
i just put my REF 6 on the curb. the welding machine i "stole" from the hi-end audio place down the block is waaaay better!!
the highs! the lows! the in-betweens!
WOW WOW WOW!! |
whitecamaross
i think you are finally on to something. ==your aiwa bookshelf speakers, and i will add a sanyo welder system, a sansui something-or-other, i will also borrow riaa's vintage "close and play" turntable from 1968
..all tied together with 38 gauge radio shack premium speaker wire
..we will then make sure the whole system is hardwired into top of the electric pole outside the house to realize the systems full potential....!!
( i challenge anyone who claims they hear a difference between this setup and theirs!!)
then i am going straight down to the scrap metal place and hope i can get a couple of dollars for my over -priced ,over-rated audio gear.
|
mcintosh
all fart and no poo |
|
No such thing as a keeper in the whitecamaross universe. Especially under 5k. |
so i guess the wilson's are a keeper then?
..or, now that you have found your ideal pre/amplification setup it now time to once again play musical chairs with different pairs of speakers again? |
Heard the krell solo 575 monos at a friends house paired with a ref6 and 20.1 magnepans. Very nice. Krell Is overlooked nowadays but still very good. |
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WC,...thanks for the update.
Curious. What was your opinion of the Focal Sopra 3? Both in relation to your Wilsons and standing on it's own merit.
thanks
mike |
|
this thread is like the movie "2001 a space odyssey".
it's left to your own interpretation.
|
Whitecamaross...in your opinion ,is my krell duo 300 in the midfi category also or somewhere in between?
Thanks,your opinion is greatly appreciated!
Mike |
ref10/krell 700cx=BOOM
instant classic!!! |
audiolabyrinth and WC..i would imagine you guys are using a 30amp dedicated?
i mean ..the expensive power cables.you know?
|
Focal Sopra 3 is an excellent speaker.
If I didn't love the Martin logan sound,they would be my box speakers of choice.
The orange ones sound the best....lol |
WCSS....just by chance i happened to listen to the Focal Sopra 3. i was at a dealer to pick up my turntable.
as you might remember, i love the martin logan sound. he had a pair of 15a's set up in the adjacent listening room. so i was able to audition both. the electronics were mcintosh ( not the biggest mac fan but it sounded good) . music was streamed. again, not ideal. but....
i won't describe the Sopra sound but they left me an IMPRESSION on me. WOW!
i had listened to many cone driver speakers along my personal journey and this is the one that i could live with. overall i preferred the 15a's. but that's just me.
i own the M-L 13a's , and i could never give them up.
the focal?
can anyone say "second system? hmm lol
mike |
WCSS.....So, I guess you cancelled the Focal Sopra 3's ???? |
i'm very anxious for the WC Focal Sopra 3 review.
for me personally, i will get a good feel,speaker-wise,of WC's impressions since we both will have shared listening experiences with martin-logan and focal.
my 2 top speaker choices!!
(wished i lived next door!! gggrrrrrr..lol)
|
"i favor holographic imaging, detail, soundstage size over bass"
WC, your quote fits the description of Martin-Logans like a glove.
You had the 15a's waaay back in this thread. Please let us know where they fall in your pecking order after you audition your new speakers this week.
thanks
mikepaul |
whitecamaross...more important than anything: how is that AUDI BLUE??????? |
sounds like the focals will not be opened...grrrr oh well |
ok but musically...how does it sound
i know i know..give it a chance |
WC..if you love AND hate it...it's no good.
i left my ex -girlfriend for that same reason...
next up! |
WC....just because you critically review a speaker or amp or whatever and feel you found something better, that does NOT diminish the previous piece of equipment!!
nor does it mean the piece is no good.
it’s falls within the avalanche of reviews you have described.
i think we all understand that.
if you keep the focal or magico does that make every post / review irrelevant? no.
does it make one or the other bad? or crap? no.
initially, you bashed the m-l 13a’s compared to the 15a’s.
does that mean the 13a’s turned into polk speakers??? no
the bottom line is that no matter what anyone says is: does a speaker or amp sound good to YOU!?
and is this what you EXPECT from high end audio?
and does the money spent meet expectations?
i have some equipment that you reviewed in the first few pages..13’s ,ref6, etc.
is it junk now because you moved on from them...uhhh...no
i am thrilled with what i have.
and you are enjoying a "high end merry -go- round".
we are all happily on the carousel.
mikepaul |