That doesn't really make sense. It sounds like you want to be on a never ending search for middle grade amps that don't really satisfy you as long as they are re-sellable. Why not find one that's really good, save up the funds for it and live happily ever after. The merry-go-round of components does get tiring after a while, and at some point, it will just be
different flavors of the same thing. |
Not many are that big and heavy. I seem to remember Symphonic Line Kraft being about that big. |
Geoffkait,
Listener fatigue doesn't have to come from distortion, it could simply be that the listener is tired of hearing the sounds of the music, whether or not they are distorted. |
fsamb,
I have never heard those speakers, but if I needed speakers, I would by them without hearing them, because they are designed like my Klipsch Epics, but look better in some ways. the 215's are huge and mind boggling. They must sound fantastic. My speakers, which are same setup and efficiency work great with 8 watt 300b set as well as 100 watt class AB and 40 watt class A.
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roxy1927,
Where did that come from? |
He's made his amp preferences very clear. |
Luxman will win...my bet. |
whitecamaross, I'm surprised, like others, at some of the brands you have overlooked in solid state, and one is Lamm (it only uses one small tube). Another would be Balanced Audio Technology. Have you ever considered these brands? |
whitecamaross,
At the level your system has reached, I think that top level ATC speakers would really take advantage of the great amplification that you are using and show things that even the Dynaudio Temptations are unable to do. I know that they are very good and you have a lot invested in them, it's just a thought for the future. The dome midrange in the ATC speakers is incomparable, as well as all of the other in-house manufactured drivers. The power and dynamics at high levels will make many other speakers sound pale, and their neutrality at any level is pretty rare.
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Well, you know that you'll get rid of it...it's just a question of how fast you get rid of it. |
I think that the preamp is the face of the system, and the amp is the soul. Soul in this case being more important in our subliminal perception. |
whitecamaross,
While you're experimenting with speakers, why not try one of the upper end horn speakers. If I read between the lines correctly, you value dynamics and a live feel. I believe a good horn speaker would really open your eyes and make some of the alternatives sound pale. I think that it should be a part of your investigation for your own sake. |
The Pearls are very open and lifelike for sure. I haven't thought of them for a long time. |
whitecamaross,
Interesting as well as enlightening for me to read your last post to miketuason. The comments that you made regarding various brands being mid-fi as opposed to high end really woke me up in a way.
You (seem) to view brands as a vertical continuum, bad at the bottom, mediocre in the middle and excellent at the top. There is certainly some element of truth in that. Those brands (or individual models from a brand) may exhibit noise, audible distortion or truncated high or low frequencies. Those things are measurable and obviously undesirable.
As time has gone by though, I think that I have come to view it in a more horizontal way; that is, separate but equal. You mention the inferiority of McIntosh to several other brands for instance, but inferior (my word) in what way? For you, it may be a perceived lack of resolution let's say, but that slight lack of resolution may be exactly what makes it easier to listen to for another person.
I think that particular post finally made me consciously aware that every component, but let's say amplifiers in this case, has a blend of audible characteristics that may appeal to an individual, and there is really no way to say which is "better", only which you think is better, which of course listeners of similar taste may agree with.
Finally, I should disclose first that I am a McIntosh amp user; (among others) but having said that, I think that it is a narrow view to believe that Mac users purchase them solely for the meters or appearance. I think that most of us enjoy the appearance of our gear, but I don't believe that many of us buy gear based solely on its appearance. |
Well, that response from whitecamaross seems to verify what I was saying in my last post. Always talking about good, better, best without quantifying why that is other than you like it best. It's not a scientific way of going about things, but then it shouldn't be. This is about enjoyment. My point is that I don't think brands that you don't like can necessarily be classified as mid-fi simply because you don't prefer their sound signature. I owned a Pass 250.5 and really disliked it, but that was just my taste. |
"The new solid state preamp C52 is the beginning of a new story for McIntosh. It really can compete with the best pres out there."
techno_dude,
That's impossible.The experts just told us that Mac is mid-fi.
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riaa,
While I like some Mac pieces, I'm actually not a "fanboy". Three years ago, I bought a used MC 452 and didn't like the way that it worked with my system. I used the money I sold it for to buy a 300b am that I still have. I also have a vintage Mac that use occasionally.
My point with whitcamaross was not to defend Mac, but to question the reasons that we dub a brand "mid-fi", and also to question what the actual meaning of that term is. Is it inferior performance, or just performance that its not to the listener's taste?
As far as your snarky comment is concerned, I have heard plenty of gear in my time. |
wc,
So it seems that you are saying that you don't mind mid-fi in things other than amplifiers. |
jetter,
Everything is part of the system, and if he does not recognize the value and contribution of things such as still points, then part of his system will remain "mid-fi" as he calls it. |
I thought Yoko was bad... |
"I heard that newer McIntoshes are rebadged marantz units with a few more upgrades?"
Talk about fake news...
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corvette01,
Sorry, I didn't mean to be mysterious, but most people familiar with McIntosh know that they manufacture all of their stuff in Binghamton NY. They don't have a relationship with Marantz.
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grannyring and charles,
Well (and elegantly) stated as always. Seems obvious, yet we seem to need a reminder occasionally. Thank you.
John |
riaa,
Yes. We see photos when a member posts a link to a photo on photobucket or a similar site. Haven't you seen that?
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thezaks,
I agree with everything you said, and you were too kind.
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It's amazing what a pair of "mid-fi" monoblocks will do! Good for you. |
Yes Charles, I was being sarcastic because WC and RIAA had both proclaimed Mac to be mid-fi, but I guess the wallet doesn't lie! |
p59teitel,Your are right about resale, but I also agree with jafox. A smaller Symphonic Line amplifier is the best solid state amp that I have ever heard. I don't know what their secret is, but they are really great. I can't imagine what those giant Kraft amps are like.
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techno_dude,
Maybe so, but electrostatics have a much longer history than plasma TV’s, and whether or not you or others think they are inferior to the best dynamic designs, they have their fans, and likely always will.
I myself favor dynamic speakers.
viber6,
You made some excellent points. Bigger isn't always better; unless it's under the hood of a white Camaro SS.
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There you go. It might be sooner than expected; and they would be a nice start. |
"I’m not taking anybody’s 1974 horn speakers lol." I'ts funny. Now that I understand the type of sound you like; clear, impactful and dynamic, I can just envision you being delighted with a pair of high end horns, and asking yourself why you had never tried them before. Who knows, some day it might happen. |
mrdecibel, I must (respectfully) disagree. (somewhat) The directivity of horns may be wide; some more than others, but it is also controlled, and in my experience makes the room less of a problem. Those are big speakers though, and might be a problem in his room as you say. I'd still love to see WC try horns! No more amplifier headaches; just choose the one that has reasonable power and sounds best. |
dguitarnut,
Shadorne may have spoken in error, but he is far from a troll. He oftentimes offers useful experience and information; and as a comparatively new member to the forums, I think that your judgement is harsh and unwarranted.
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viber6,
I think that is an insightful summary of those 2 brands. |
wc,
One question...Is it still mid-fi?
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riaa, Sure, whatever you say. You make the same faulty argument as Viber. Anyone who likes Mac is either too poor to afford better, or just blissfully ignorant. |
viber6, I’m sure that I am not anywhere near you regarding intelligence or experience. (seriously) Having said that, I think that you just made two mistakes in your argument. Firstly, you state that most Macs are overpriced for what they are. Since "what they are" is subjective, their value to each owner will be different. You then state that Mac lives by its glitzy appearance and marketing hype. That’s probably impossible for any brand of anything over the long haul, but it certainly is not true of McIntosh. I’ve seen giants fall in it’s wake in my system, and by the way, the meters annoy me a little. |
Not all tube gear has poor resale value, and some of it is very reliable. My 300b amp has gone for years without maintenance; and speaking of poor resale value, look at Soulution for one. |
rickdog,
That may be true, but neither of those amps would be of much use to WC unless he decides to experiment with more efficient speakers. (horns?)
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riaa,
I can hardly believe what I'm about to say...but I agree with you completely!
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riaa,
Nothing brings people together like a common cause...and a little laughter. That was funny, thanks.
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What happened to Albert Porter going to all the shows and taking photos for Audiogon? I miss that. |
#1 sounded better. A bit more focused on the treble, and somehow more intimate. |
I used to come to this thread to see what WC's latest discoveries were, and then I started getting bored. Now the most interesting thing on this thread are the fights between viber and riaa. Keep it coming guys! |
+1 kalali. I'm also curious about that . |
What do you know? Maybe McIntosh isn't so mid-fi after all! |
I think this thread has lost it's way. I guess it was about time. |
Wow...what a surprise! It sounded just like my computer speakers... |
I guess I misunderstood too. I thought you were going on to a new life on youtube.
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