I would get the Gryphon Pandora because it’s made for the Gryphon amps:
When connected via Gryphon’s proprietary Green Bias Link to a Gryphon power amplifier with Green Bias function, Gryphon Pandora can control available Class A output, reducing power consumption and running the amp slightly cooler for less critical use. This feature adjusts the amplifier bias in relation to the preamplifier volume control for exactly the right amount of Class A power on demand as needed with massive instantaneous power reserves ready and waiting.
Sorta like why the Luxman amp sounds better with the Luxman preamp |
Best way to keep up with this thread is just scan and read only WC’s posts which is what I do. Usually it’s only 1 or 2 per page. |
People are so nice on forums |
I got stucked once on a muddy back road in Georgia.....but i found some sticks and rocks, put em under my tars and voila...I was unstucked! Lol and before you knew it I was plucking away again on my Stradivarius at the Atlanter sinfony orkester jest in dear nick of time for Baytovens second bowel movement. Lol
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I actually had a Bryston 2.5 SST2 for a year or so and even though it sounded nice it was no match for my next amp which was a Pass Labs Int-60. It’s first 30 watts is class A which is what utterly destroyed the Bryston to my ears. This was pairing up to Tekton Lore Reference speakers which when I tried to sell even at 25% of the price I couldn’t find buyers. My son ended up with a nice set of free speakers. This is why WC doesn’t want Tektons.....lol
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My Diablo 300 puts out half the heat my Pass Int-60 did.
I have an Ansuz X power cord connected. |
There again I’m not a fan of the Sabre chips based dacs
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I find the AES/EBU interconnect works best between my Lumin U1 and my Chord Dave. The Dave is my end game Dac in combination with my Gryphon Diablo 300 and Magico S3 Mk2.
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Nice spam Viking! Do people not realize that they are as welcome as robo-calls and that they have the reverse effect? Or at least on me.
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You are comparing a $16K MSRP integrated to a $62K (58+4) MSRP combo of mono blocks plus preamp.
Compare statement products to make it a fair fight.
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I had both the Diablo 120 and the Luxman L509X side by side. The Diablo 120 blew it away from a resolving and live like presentation standpoint. The L509X sounded more like listening to a great stereo recording.....very smooth, with the loudness control coming in handy for those late night low level sessions. For me it was no contest so I ordered the Diablo 300 hoping it would be at least the equal of the 120 which of course it was plus more. Disclaimer: YMMV. |
Fabbe
That’s exactly as I describe my Diablo 300..........live music....all the dynamic range of the music comes through and it is a high resolution presentation.
The 590 AX mk2 Luxman has a beautiful smooth fluid hi-fi presentation....like a great stereo.....but not live. Had them side by side.
Yes.....the Diablo looks like well, like it came from hell....lol.
And the Luxman 590Axmk2 is a gorgeous unit, the heat vents are a work of industrial art.....and the controls,meters and buttons are very retro....maybe too old fashioned for me, reminds me of my old Receivers from the 70’s
The Pass Int-60 was mentioned. It was the integrated I pitted against a bunch of others. At around $6k street price it’s the best buy of all. And like the Luxman it’s a gorgeous sculpture at least for my tastes. It has a more tube like sound than the other 2 if that’s what you like. Also it’s made here in America and service is second to none in my experience.
YMMV .......disclaimer
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Choice of cables fine tune’s your amp a degree further. It can remove or accentuate harshness .. another variable in this hobby. Luck of the draw when comparing amps and using same cables. Changing speakers is like back to square one. |
That opinion is based on the speakers you have it paired with.
Comparing the Diablo with the Luxman 509X attached to Magico S3Mk2 speakers it was the opposite. The Luxman came across as boring with an old 70s receiver vibe to it while the Diablo had this 3D live performance extremely high resolution sound. Even my old Pass Int-60 at half the street price of the Luxman was to me as capable a performer.
When you change speakers it’s like performing a reset on all sonic parameters for the most part and the subsequent honing in to your likes and preferences. |
It’s definitely a very polarizing design. You either love it or hate it with a vengeance. The WAF and room decor integration difficult but then many speakers have that problem.
It would be interesting to do a true blindfolded speaker test where aesthetics don’t come into play and you have no clue what they look like.
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Those side firing woofers can present a big problem with some rooms.
Shame you can’t try some Magico M3 with the Diablo 300....or the Luxman.....you won’t find deep discounts on current Magicos usually.
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When you try to flip old used speakers that weigh several hundred pounds each and have to be crated and shipped presents a different set of challenges over just amps and preamps and other supporting electronics. You sorta have to marry speakers and divorce is very expensive lol. Listen to your prospective speakers at a dealer. If you love a certain brands sound like you do Wilson’s you should stay long term or move up that brands lineup till you reach the proper max size for your room. I have no desire for Maggie’s, Logan’s or horn speakers because as great as they may be in the proper room in my small 11x14 space would not work. I owned Tektons, Harbeth and Magicos before I found my sound. I moved up from Magico S1mk2 which I loved to the S3Mk2 for a bigger presentation and could not be happier. Nothing bigger would work in my non dedicated room....I think lol.
Plus not to mention when you change speakers you have just pushed the reset button on most if not all your previous research. |
WC....if you loved the Sasha’s you should consult with dealers or even with the manufacturer and get the largest size Wilson’s you can get away with in your size and type room. If you like that big dominating bass get a speaker that leans in that direction and sized properly.
Speaker placement is critical for bass along with room treatments. Are you using a frequency meter or app to find listening position? Or maybe hire a professional to set them up.
I have “no problem mon” with Bob Marley stuff and cranked up enough I have all the bass I want out of my Magicos. There again they are sized and placed correctly with help from my dealer which makes the whole thing worth every penny. If I move my seating position forward or backward I can make the bass overwhelming or underwhelming.
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You you should hear the Gryphon Diablo 300 with Magicos........my nirvana at least.
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shadorne.....So who makes the SOTA proclamations, this dogma? The Pope or maybe the Dali Lama? Where can I find this SOTA info? Google? Or you? |
@ Shadorne
The Giya 1 maybe be SOTA in a larger room than WCs . He states it’s too large for the space. You cannot say that SOTA is confined to only the biggest and most expensive top of the line speakers. SOTA in a 11x14 room like mine would be a much smaller speaker like a Giya 3 or the Magico S3Mk2 that I have.
You might can get the Giya 1 to sound as good in a huge room as a Giya 2 or 3 in a smaller room.....maybe.
What is your definition of SOTA ? In a manufacturers line one speaker can be better than a more expensive one, ie Magico Q3 considered better sounding than a Magico Q5
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Audio labyrinth can you provide data that the Q3 out resolve S5Mk2 when they have all the newest drivers and Q3s have 8 year old technology? Have you heard them side by side or is it just hearsay? Magicos improve every generation not only in drivers but enclosures. The hearsay I hear is just the opposite...that the Q3s are more in the league of the S3Mk2s. Also the M series have no resemblance to the Q series, in a different league altogether.
But all that said..the Q3s represent a bargain in the used market going for less that the S3Mk2s that I own.
Cheers..... |
I have owned the Bryston 2.5 sst2 and although it is an excellent amp that punches way above its class it lacks in power to drive bigger relatively inefficient speakers. They were fantastic with my Tekton 96db speakers but when I replaced with Harbeths it lacked oomph |
I use a Dave tied to a LUMIN U1 with tidal streamed from my ipad and this made a huge difference as opposed to my MacBook Pro to the Dave vía USB.
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The Neoliths might last as long as the Vivids........lol
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Shadorne is a troll......he is the infinite audio expert............take his worthless word for it. If you can’t offer facts keep you mouth shut if you can’t contribute to the thread. |
There is a pair of Dag Momentum’s 300 on Agon for 29K . |
+2 Mr. Bill....this is WCs adventure and that’s what I want to read about.
This whole page only has one 3 line comment by WC and the rest is rambling chatter with out much relevance to the thread. Too many self proclaimed experts giving each other advice.
Now....let me tell you that having played backup guitar to Eric Clapton I believe I know how an acoustic guitar should sound like. (Kidding) |
I agree .......lots of the conversations do not belong in this thread.
Some folks need to geta life.....or at the very least a thread for their boring verbose diatribes. No one gives a ..... if your son has a masters in aerospace engineering or your qualifications to give an opinion.
I myself am the chief engineer at Tesla in charge of aerospace and HiFi engineering but I don’t like to flaunt my double PhD. Lol |
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I’m sure WC is not really interested in DIY quality speakers......when he is considering getting SOTA Neoliths.
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Not much excitement there. |
Soulution 700 monos on the way WC? My guess.
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Awesome...........now double posting..........besides being irrelevant to the thread.
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Guys.....everyone of you say that cables make a difference correct? So this establishes that we hear subtle audio qualities. I have moved up several ladders like WC. Most have noticed as you move up these ladders wires generally get better until you hit a major design change (ie copper to silver to gold etc etc).
If your ears prefer silver you may like x brands silver implementation over Y’s.
I still have cables from relatively obscure origins that I have to about give away if I want them gone. I can turn over my Ansuz or Crystal cables for reasonable money.
Same for speakers. My return to Hifi had me starting out with Tekton Reference Lore and a Bryston B135-sst2 integrated. After paying freight and fees I recovered less than 25% of my investment after a year of actively trying to sell the Tektons. The fella who bought them is happy as a clam along with a $150 dollar Sony home theatre receiver and says he can’t imagine a better sound. Got Harbeths and when I sold them I recovered about 60%. Bought Magicos then moved up and recovered 75%. Now in each case they were all current models when I sold them. This is why generally you shouldn’t invest in certain brands unless you want to keep forever.
The Tektons are a bargain at their price....the Harbeth cost 4X and barely were better. The Magicos were 3X the price of the Harbeths and were quantitatively much better to my ears. Yes......I had found MY sound. The Tektons where far removed from the Magicos......I can’t imagine any Tekton matching the sound of my S3Mk2s same as WC’s S5mk2......sorry.
I replaced the Bryston integrated with a Pass 60-int. The Bryston did fine with the Tektons but struggled with the Harbeths. The Pass had much better control and bass. After acquiring the Magicos which are very fast speakers I started auditioning other integrateds. Gryphons integrated blew me away with their dynamic, live in front of you presentation with the best staging and imaging I have ever heard in my home.......
To think of ever wanting to try unknown brands with dubious engineering no matter the price after reaching the heights that WC has reached is not enticing in any way or form.
With limited funds those are very good options though......but you better plan on keeping them for a long long time. Hope you are happy as a clam too! Lol
I for one get tired of reading about this type of gear. |
Humm.....let’s post in the most popular thread on A-gon for the greatest exposure of mostly an unknown product.
Otherwise there would be little to no interest in these products......what would you call this activity?.......spam? Trolling?
Just saying.....
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The plane has been hijacked and we are headed to Merrill in the great state of Mola Mola..........and hijackings usually turn vicious. |
Not fun anymore ......I agree. |
Viber6. Guido and Technodude have their own agenda and want to impose it in this thread no matter what..... plug 2nd rate gear that no one wants to hear about or cares about. They have been asked politely to stop and they come back with renewed intensity. If any of this stuff was revolutionary it would have made an impact already like Schitt did with their entry level gear and their Yggdrasil Dac. |
I’m a Magico fan so I vote M3s which I have heard over at Suncoast Audio many times with all sorts of amps,preamps and DACs. They always have sounded superb and would be my ultimate goal if I had a bigger room. My S3Mk2s are probably a better choice for my 11x14 foot room and I have no desire for bigger.
The only times I have listened to Martin Logan speakers has been at Bestbuys Magnolia rooms and more than likely not set up optimally. I must admit it’s a bigger sound image but its thinner than I like. if I was a big classical music fan I would be happy with them. What impresses me with Magicos is the quickness and detail of the music with still a lot of meat on the bones sound. The fact that I wouldn’t have the room to deploy them properly is also a big consideration. |
I doubt the thread will come to an end. You can’t put a muzzle on 3 or 4 of the self proclaimed experts in this thread. They will continue expounding on the merits of their yugo class gear no matter what, which I think is worse than a Hyundai matter of fact.
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So techno dude......why did you try to sell your SOTA Luxman combo?
All Audiotroy will say is how good his line of T+A amps are......lol |
I have read that the Rane is quite dirty, not hi-fi quality and designed for commercial live sound applications.
I see sometimes old Luxman equalizers come up for sale which might be a better choice for higher resolving systems.. |
Techno.........then all you would have is $150 New Balance while WC is still sporting Jordan’s.....lol
WC......congrats on the Neoliths and the Jordan’s |
The Roon parametric equalizer is perfect if you need equalization ......not some decades old mid grade sound stage gear. Might as well throw in Teckton speakers into the conversation too Lol.
Yeah......you don’t need that Veyrun when you have a Dodge Challenger in the garage.
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Actually I had the then top rated in its price class Tekton Lore Reference speakers and I assure you the Harbeths at 4 times the price that I replaced them with, and the Magicos at 24X their price are substantially better. Better in audio is a diminishing returns proposition always. There is no way any Tekton can compete with the class of speakers WC is listening to. Sorry but as much as we would all like a 3K speaker to kill these 35 to 80K speakers it’s not going to happen.
And while on the subject of Rane would you really want a $600 piece of anything in your audio chain when WC is agonizing swapping probably 1 to 3 thousand dollar each power cords and Cables? Really? And you keep bringing it up? |
Viber6 open your mind that your $2000 Mytek with probably a $100 dollar power cord no way could hold its own against a D’agostino when just his power cords are as much as your entire setup? Really?
When other speaker designers look at that Tekton DI I bet they laugh their butts off......wow. You really need to reign in the nonsense |
Viber, since it’s Thanksgiving aren’t you going to state that Cornish hens are every bit as tasty and traditional as a turkey specially when served on a Rane silver platter?
Happy thanksgiving y’all......don’t blow out your Tektons or burn up your dinky little amps while showing off your giant killer system to family and friends! Lol....this is fun..........
My thanks to all in this thread for the entertainment provided and the good fortune we have to be free and able to enjoy good music and the means to buy our toys.
And last but not least we all can be thankful for having some of our hearing left and that the tinnitus has not worsened.
Again Happy Thanksgiving! |
My tRANE of thought too.
and when my ac broke last year I chose the one I got cause nothing can stop a tRANE..
Between Hank Williams PRane songs
And Newbury's tRane songs
And blue eyes cryin' in the tRane
Out in Luckenbach, Texas
Ain't nobody feelin' no pain
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