shadorne.....So who makes the SOTA proclamations, this dogma? The Pope or maybe the Dali Lama? Where can I find this SOTA info? Google? Or you?
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
Jafox: i Haven’t really had time to evaluate the cables. I’m going to be doing that as soon as the dust settles with my speakers. As far as magicos, I was told constellation amplifiers is what I need to get. I was already in talks with my connection in regards to the centaur II 500 stereo amp which retails for a whopping 55k. Not sure if I’ll go that route or just get the Taurus Monos instead which are 39k. For now I need to try both speakers with my ref10/simaudio 860a and the diablo 300. If the magico beats the focals then I’ll begin to think about constellation amps next but if I end up with focals then I’ll stay with my current front end. |
Some very nice amps spoken of in these reviews! I would like to try the pass lab and jc1 amps. Can any body offer an opinion on Meridian 559 and 558 amps? Supposedly only have a sound to noise ratio of 100 db, however I had read they don't push the boundaries for the over stating of specs. I have both the above in an all Dynaudio system with c2s, a confidence centre and 4 x contour sr s. Apinions on the Meridian amps in comparison to the high quality amps mentioned? |
@sciencecop I am surprised the NRC amp cannot drive 4 ohm load at high frequencies - very little power required as the tweeter is 94 dB sensitivity - so at 95 dB SPL perhaps only a couple of watts? So I am still puzzled - perhaps the sensitivities or linearity simply doesn’t match the woofer and mid range so balance varies with SPL? Seems more likely that the voice coil is heating up and resistance increasing and sensitivity is dropping as power increases? Could it be crossed over too low for the tweeters capability? @dguitarnut I think WCSS is chasing SOTA in amplifiers and therefore I assumed the same in speakers. Both speakers (focal and Magico) are excellent and better than 99+% out there. But NEITHER are top of the line even for each manufacturer...so I think SOTA applies here to Vivid G1 but not the other two. Also the performance niggles that I point out are minor and irrelevant to most people except someone (WCSS) who has tried 30+ high end amplifiers and is replacing an already very good speaker (Vivid G1)! For record, I state again - both the Magico and Focal discussed here are on the whole absolutely outstanding speakers...just not quite SOTA. |
WC already knows that shadorne. He just wants to experience it. To know if the Focal or Magico can compete with the G1. To know which of those two is the best in his room. And we, his followers, are looking forward to read his conclusions. Why, because most of us don’t trust reviews of magazines, and most don’t have the connexions or the means to be able to bring all this gear into our rooms to make those tests. |
Thanks techno. That’s what I’ve been trying to tell everyone here. The vivid audio g1 is incredible and huge sounding. That said, I’m going to try and see if the next 2 speakers will be satisfactory in my room and what compromises I have to make. Sopra 3 is supposed to be outstanding and I suspect more forward sounding than the magico. This could in fact lead anyone to believe that the sopra will have more detail than the magico and magico may sound warm in comparison. That said, I am going to listen for hours on end to both and then choose. |
07-22-2018 6:24pmWCSS, Here is a standalone Room Perfect for sale, FYI; https://www.ebay.com/itm/232858283808?ul_noapp=tru Buy this and your room problems are Solved |
@ Shadorne The Giya 1 maybe be SOTA in a larger room than WCs . He states it’s too large for the space. You cannot say that SOTA is confined to only the biggest and most expensive top of the line speakers. SOTA in a 11x14 room like mine would be a much smaller speaker like a Giya 3 or the Magico S3Mk2 that I have. You might can get the Giya 1 to sound as good in a huge room as a Giya 2 or 3 in a smaller room.....maybe. What is your definition of SOTA ? In a manufacturers line one speaker can be better than a more expensive one, ie Magico Q3 considered better sounding than a Magico Q5 |
Agreed, Magico S5 is also SOTA. It is all relative anyway. I would be happy with Magico S5 although I don’t aspire to SOTA as my goal is more towards classic design with history and proven track record - designs that have withstood the test of time. The S5 is a really Great speaker (sorry if I repeat myself multiple times) |
So the s5 mk2 will be the first time I own magico. Don’t know what to expect and don’t know if I’ll find it better than Wilson in my room. That said, I’m not just looking for bass in my room. I’m specifically looking for a huge soundstage, detail, holographic imaging which can be done in my room. Even if the magico fails to deliver all the bass id want to have, it doesn’t mean it loses. It has to present a larger picture with far more information than I have ever heard before for me to consider it a winner in my room. i favor holographic imaging, detail, soundstage size over bass. |
Many of these speakers, including some of the smaller models, do require a bit of distance between them, and the listener, otherwise you can pick up discontinuity between the drivers ( ime ), as well as bass issues and tremendous, unrealistic image delineation. None of the speakers WC is trying, are designed for nearfield listening. Holographic imaging and soundstaging are 2 of WCs important and desirable characteristics he is looking for, and he might realize a larger room with any of these will be needed. The G1s do need a larger room, and WC was sensitive enough as a listener to hear that. The only way WC will know, is to try, and he ( and I ) am enjoying his journey. I give WC kudos for all he is doing, and I am enjoying his findings. It does not matter if I disagree with any of it. This is the 1st Agon thread I open every day. WC....Thank you, and Enjoy ! MrD. |
Also the performance niggles that I point out are minor and irrelevant to most people except someone (WCSS) who has tried 30+ high end amplifiers and is replacing an already very good speaker (Vivid G1)! Really? I need to go through a boat load of 100+ lb amps and speakers over a 6-month period to understand the relevance of the minor differences brought on by changing such products? Many of the differences WCSS describes between amps and speakers I can achieve simply by changing of a pair of tubes in the line stage, phono stage, DAC, amp input, etc.
Or maybe even a NOLA Contender at a fraction of the Magico price? |
Hi whitecamaross, fascinating journey which I eagerly follow. Have read it all. Don't let someone like dep14 talk down the importance of a power cable or any cable for that matter. I am sure he means well. He, like many others, can not understand how a few feet of expensive cable at the end of miles of supply cable can make a difference. A reasonable assumption to the uninformed. But it is not the last bit of cable connected to your amp. The way your amp sees it, it is the first bit of cable it connects to. And rather an important one as this is how it derives it's power. There is a lot more to it than that. Tons of info on the internet. The quality of components you are dealing with call for and will do justice to quality cables. I politely encourage you, when the dust settles, to experiment with some seriously good ones. Hey its easier than changing out mammoth sized speakers. |
"Hi whitecamaross, fascinating journey which I eagerly follow. Have read it all. Don’t let someone like dep14 talk down the importance of a power cable or any cable for that matter. I am sure he means well. He, like many others, can not understand how a few feet of expensive cable at the end of miles of supply cable can make a difference. A reasonable assumption to the uninformed. But it is not the last bit of cable connected to your amp. The way your amp sees it, it is the first bit of cable it connects to. And rather an important one as this is how it derives it’s power. There is a lot more to it than that. Tons of info on the internet." Nice spin. Look, I’m not saying use lamp cord. But a good medical grade cable ought to do the trick. Many amp MFG suggest going straight into the wall, yet there is a huge business out there selling giant power plants. I could care less if you put your money into it. You are much better off putting $1000.00 into room treatments than a $1000 power cord. But, whatever makes you happy. If you have endless funds, hell go for it. Speakers/Room/Source/Amp But feel free to explain it to me. |
WC, am I to assume you do not want to open them, because they might lose some value if you need to sell them ( based on you liking the Magicos ) ? This is quite understandable, as you know better than most, the resale value of this level of equipment. If this is the reason, I would wait. Enjoy ! MrD. |
It is definitely understandable if resale value comes into play - not opening the Sopra 3's could save some money. However, this is WC we're talking about here :-) If anyone thinks that one of these two pairs of speakers is the final destination for WC, my bet is that you are absolutely wrong. Sure, he might end up mightily impressed with the Sopras or the Magicos, and he might even keep them for a while, but he will most certainly not keep them long term. It's just not his way of doing things, and let's face it, it's why many of us are here tagging along for the ride. I definitely enjoy it! With that said, even if WC returns/sells the Sopras without opening them, it does not mean that he won't consider them again in the future. Thanks for the fun and entertaining ride WC! Dave |
Guys, i can easily sell the sopra 3s. They are the hottest color available (Audi blue) and yes maybe I open them, then put the magicos next to them and do comparisons for a few weeks. The issue here is that if I were to say the sopra killed the magicos s5 mk2, people will assume the magico is no good and the sopra is the one to get. That’s not how this works. Lastly, you all need to remember that my front end isn’t exactly cheap so just because a speaker sounds awesome here doesn’t mean you’ll get the same results unless you have the same cables, components and room. |
Lets be honest for the sake of everybody here. The one someone sells is never the one to get. People sell inferior stuff to get superior stuff. The reason you can sell is that your inferior is someone else superior. In this case it’s relative holy grail exchange. But for ultimate purists like me who are tired to sell and resale, we search for the first best. It is the reason we keep returning to this thread. Is WC biased when resaling? Sure he is l like everybody else that wants to get money back to buy something else. So I read between the lines. I will never buy Sashas2 or Vivid G1, because you got rid of them. I will never buy the one you sale between the Sopra 3 and the Magico. I will get the pair you keep. Because I know this thread has always been about the best amp , the best dac, and the best speakers. |
WC--I concur with jafox that every speaker has its pros and cons. I have not heard either one, but suppose the Focal has more bass and the Magico has more accuracy/information retrieval. My taste would be the Magico, but your taste might be the Focal, because you love bass and loudness/large scale dynamics. You said recently that you wouldn't like Bob Marley without sufficient bass, but on the other hand, you value hearing all the words in a song clearly. So you might be bewitched by the clarity of the Magico so that bass QUANTITY becomes a lower priority. The Magico might have superlative bass QUALITY with more information retrieval in the bass, with still decent bass QUANTITY. You'll never know unless YOU try them both. As you always say, published reviews are less valuable than your own evaluations. Maybe the difference in resale between sealed speakers and open box is $1000 or so, but this is the price of your own R & D and the fun of this quest. |
Techno: you know where the problem lies with your thinking? That the one I end up keeping gets replaced yet again by something else so then what do you do ? If I keep the magico and sell the sopras then you’ll get magicos but what If i fly out to Chicago and listen to YG speakers and bring them home and murder the magico? Now what ? You’re stuck with the inferior speaker right ??? So you see how your way of thinking isn’t really 100% accurate :) |
WC...one day I believe you will try a good pair of horns and realize you can have it all. Assuming you have the right room, listening position, front end gear, and so on and so on, you might find your holy grail ( always questionable with you tho ). Just another perspective, and of course a very biased opinion. Enjoy ! MrD. |
WC, sure it is not exact science. The more the waiting, the more the odds of getting one of the cream of the crop. One day will come when this thread will end, as every good thing has an end. Life has to go on. In the meantime I did pretty well. I got the amp you bought 4 times, the 900u. So I hit the nail on his one. I can do the same with drivers. Let us enjoy the ride until a definitive trend shows up in the speakers department. You re the driver, I sit in the back admiring the view. |
I’m glad you got the 900u amp. It’s an amazing amp. People keep messaging me a lot about the 350.8 and Hegel h30 etc and I keep saying the same thing: the 900u smokes both. I have parted ways with the 900u only because luxman is working on the reference Monos which are going to be more than twice the money of the 900u. That said, I am and will continue trying luxman as they release more products in the future. |
Maybe I missed it, but I think it would be beneficial to have pics of your space (I think dimensions were given at some point)? I'm surprised there hasn't been even a couple pics given the length and time invested in this thread. Being the room plays such a significant role in the overall outcome, it would give some sort of reference to others that may or may not have similar dimension/layouts etc.. What plays well in one space (subjective preferences notwithstanding) is almost certain not translate into other spaces |
techno_dude: I respectfully disagree with your statement - "The one someone sells is never the one to get." I've purchased used items that have been absolutely terrific. If the goal is to go for the very best, you better have lots of money and be willing to go through a lot of equipment (like WC), because it's a long-term quest. Not sure anyone will ever get there. And, I was going to mention something similar to what WC mentioned (actually I did allude to it, if you look at my previous post :-). Just because someone sells something and picks up something different (with the assumption that it's better), does not mean that they won't drop that one for another one. Dave |
