@thieliste Thanks for posting the link to the Gryphon Mephisto paired with CH Precision linestage. Very precise and detailed presentation. What I found most interesting though was the 4 (2 stacked in each corner of the front wall) traps. What I believe those to be are AVAA C20 Active Bass Traps. https://www.psiaudio.swiss/avaa-c20-active-bass-trap/Very interesting technology for controlling and absorbing room modes (excessive bass) between 15 and 150hz. I am currently researching these units for my listening room.....Anybody know anything about these units? |
techno, the moderators gave you a time out a while back...is that where we're headed again?
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I have the same CM shelf for my amp. I remember it taking at least a week to settle in. During that week it would sound bright one day and a little bassy the next, so it's too early to critically listen. If it sounds too bassy it could also be the Dragon HC PC's. Compared to Odin1 they have less top end energy and more bottom end energy.
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"Real NEUTRALITY is ruthless and it will piss you off too. It doesn’t care about you or your preference. Real neutrality isn’t in the form of coffee with creamer but rather just pure black coffee which some of you can’t stomach because you get heartburn or acid reflux."
Sounds like viber's cup of tea.
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Sounds like you have had very few "colorless amplification".
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Presentation #2 sounds clearer, sharper and more transparent and I think for the short term I would choose #2....however with long term listening #1 would be easier to listen to and less fatiguing. Boulder gear is just so transparent it seems difficult to improve on the sound with aftermarket PC's and isolation.
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@viber6
Still waiting for you to reveal what review you read where the reviewer stated:
" The Magico M9 can produce lots of bass, but the reviewer implies the overall effect is a big sound which is unfocused."
I Googled Magico M9 review and came up with two reviews, both were extremely positive. Here are a few quotes from Jeff Fritz (Soundstage) July 21,2021 review.
"I heard the vastest sense of space I’ve ever heard when listening to reproduced music—the “sound” of the listening room morphed into a performance space. The experience was almost like that of a good planetarium—the soundstage didn’t exist as an entity in front of me; it was a continuous space, unbroken by boundaries that would define depth or width or height. This was beyond simply room-filling. It was space-defining."
"There was no compression in the highs. I thought to myself, After this, hearing any other high-frequency reproduction will seem stilted by comparison. I could not believe my ears—it was simply the finest high-frequency sound I’ve ever heard."
" I wasn’t just hearing vocal inflections and microdynamic shifts within those vocals; I was gaining a microscopic view into the performance that I’m not sure even the artist could have known was there. I marveled at how closely I could “watch” the singer, how awesomely transparent the midrange was. I can’t even conceive of how any distortion—certainly not of the audible variety—could have crept into the reproduction of this tune. It was the best I’ve heard it by far."
"The bass and piano were kept separate in space, almost as if they were being reproduced by separate speakers—I can’t imagine this speaker ever being congested. The scale and sense of power that the system produced with this track were beyond anything I’ve ever heard"
"The bass power was, again, essentially limitless. The entire room flexed with the energy that the M9s were projecting. I walked up and placed my hand on the woofer cabinet as the bass was rattling my brain and felt . . . nothing. The cabinet was completely at rest, even as the entirety of the room was struggling to contain the bass power. This was the deepest, most intense bass I’ve ever heard. Sense a trend here? Is it?
The best, that is. Yes, it’s the best sound I’ve ever heard. What’s really crazy about my experience is that I don’t feel I tested the limits of what a pair of M9s can truly do."
And from Wayne Garcia (The Absolute Sound) April 19,2021
"I can’t recall any other speaker in my experience so lacking its own signature, one so breathtakingly pure and uncolored, so free of smear, hangover, driver and cabinet noise and coloration, one so stunningly coherent across such a complete frequency range—this, mind you, while sporting pairs of 15″ woofers."
"What’s more, as you might easily guess, the M9 can effortlessly play at concert hall levels and convincingly recreate the size of concert venues; yet, it can also whisper, ever so softly, while sounding surprisingly delicate and scaled-down when the music calls for it. And though its extraordinary resolution clearly vaults the M9 to a special plane, the speaker doesn’t come across as sounding like impressive hi-fi; instead, it just disappears. After the first few tracks my shoulders simply relaxed, my mental checklist turned off, and I was fully immersed in the M9’s musical magic."
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@viber6
Posting "Guido and almarg (sadly deceased)" was perfectly clear to me. I had heard almarg had passed and even posted it myself on this thread. But to hear that Guido had also passed was quite disturbing. Being a doctor I sure hope you have more clarity when writing medical prescriptions....just sayin.
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"But take your favorite speaker, and any amp will produce decent sound from that speaker."
I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one.
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Well that's the best my computer has ever sounded....can I come over? |
Shut you up once and for all....yeah right. |
@kren0006,
I agree about the term 'synergy'. To me, synergy means all components and speakers compliment each other together producing an overall balanced, pleasing sound. I believe synergy also involves the interaction between the components, speakers and room. Home audio is so subjective, system synergy to one person might not please another.
As far as Mikey goes, it was fun while it lasted. His subtle but constant promoting of the products he sells vs your unbiased approach was clearly evident.
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Dave I respect your opinion but completely disagree. Mikey described the MSB DAC as "so excruciatingly detailed, it is completely analytical and is devoid of soul". He goes on to say "MSB in their zele to be the most expensive DAC on the planet has gone over the line into an area that I consider parody". "After my experience with MSB's 80k DAC I will now coin them MSB (Most Significant Bitch)"......"So if you would like something that does not sound musical that analyzes everything as an analysis machine then buy MSB. If you want something musical, you're into music and that's why you have a hifi system then buy then use Playback Designs".
Dave, you said "I believe he was trying to be fair in his descriptions"
Trying to be fair? Really? He ripped MSB. Maybe you should go back and view his fair and unintentional promoting of the DAC he sells.
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Thanks Dave...we're cool.
I still think Mikey has an agenda. And that is to discredit costly audio gear and promote more affordable gear....especially the gear he sells. That to me is a conflict of interest. His review / comparison between the MSB DAC and his Playback Designs DAC was a blatant beatdown. That's not a style that appeals to me.
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whitecamaross, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all of your detailed amp reviews. I have a Classe CA-5100 paired with Proac D30R's (89 sensitivity and 8 ohms) easy to drive speakers. I listen (75% 2 channel music and 25% HT). I'm looking to upgrade my 2 channel music listening by purchasing a 2 channel amp for my Proac's and keeping the 5100 for center and surrounds. I have done a lot of reading on the Pass X150.8, X250.8 and the Classe CA-2200. I think the Pass amps might run a little too hot for my application plus size and warm up time I have heard my also be an issue. I love the sound of my 5100 but would like to improve on it if possible. Your thoughts on the CA-2200 would be much appreciated. Thank you, Ron |
whitecamaross,
I am going to take your good advice and demo a Pass X150.8. I emailed Pass Labs and they directed me to Mark @ Reno HiFi for an in home demo. I know your views on the X250.8 and the X350.8 but do you have any experience with the X150.8? Anyone's input on the X150.8 would be appreciated. Thanks, Ron |
jafant, whitecamaross & thezaks,
Whoops I guess I misread whitecamaross' statement.... "
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!" ... I now understand his statement was made prior to any evaluation of the X350.8.... Thank you all for your help and discussions on these fine amps. I can't wait to demo one in my home with my equipment. I will post my impressions. Ron |
@WCSS
So let me get this straight. You said
"If you can’t tell a difference at all then this means I should keep the cheapest PC out of the 3 and sell the rest."
So if we (listening over the internet with our computers) can't tell the difference between the 3 PC's, you will keep the cheapest? Seriously? Are you really going to rely on the sound quality of our computers?
When I evaluate an aftermarket PC on my system I listen for detail, clarity, tonal balance and a deep, tight tuneful bass.
On your last 'cable shootout' I could hear (somewhat) detail, tonal balance (down to upper bass only) and decay (reverberation time). I wouldn't buy or sell anything based on listeners voting after listening over the internet through their computers.....just saying.
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@viber6
Not being able to hear if the bass is muddy, bloated, full sounding, tight, tuneful etc....would be a deal breaker for me....regardless what the midrange and top end are doing.
I do understand this is just for fun though, and the OP would never buy something based on what posters request or whine about.....well except the Wilson DAW speaker.
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@viber6
Of course the bass material was audible in the OP’s room. My point was that you cannot hear the differences in deep bass over most computer systems. Bass (below 100hz) is so important in a system.
"With the Gryphon, if the mids/HF are clearer than the Constellation, the odds are that the bass is clearer, tighter and more tuneful as well."
Maybe maybe not. I’ve heard cables and components that sounded wonderful from the midrange up but had a muddy, too prominent or too little bass. You won’t be able to hear that on a standard computer.
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Not a great song to judge a power cord shootout over computer speakers. A bass guitar or stand up bass, piano and maybe one less drum kit would have been better. In order of best to good...#3 Odin1, #2 Audioquest Dragon and #1 Audiomica.
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@viber6
"Perhaps the most expensive will be shown to not be the best."
Don't you mean 'best match' for his current components and speakers?
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I thought the 'power cable shootout' was a good way to take our minds off of the coronavirus crisis.....thank you WCSS!
On my computer the Audiomica #3 sounded the most detailed, had the longest reverberation time and (to me) sounded the brightest...then the AQ Dragon #2 followed by Odin1 #1. In fact #1 Odin1 sounded a little rolled off on the top end (over my computer). I was perplexed to hear the OP say that Odin1 was sometimes too bright for his system and felt the need to tame the sound with Cardas IC's.
The takeaway for me is I don't think you can really hear what's going on through computer speakers over the internet....A couple of weeks ago I decided to record (with my iphone XS) one of my favorite demo songs through my system. I immediately transferred it to my computer and listened. The sound was so different, not even close....of course. It's a fun exercise, but not to be taken too seriously.
BTW my cables are all Odin1 with the exception of speaker cables and USB which are both Valhalla2. My computer is a MacBook Air.
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Whoops....what I meant was #3 AQ Dragon sounded the most detailed with the longest decay time (and brightest) followed by #2 Audiomica then #1 Odin....at least on my computer.
Thanks again WCSS for your time putting this together.
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Hi fi palace must be stucked with the Block amp, so most probably it’s time again to deploy a little audiogon thread marketing...
"stucked".....really? |
I was bored....fish in a barrel kinda thing |
And now back to audio talk |
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I have always had a preamp in my system and never tried the direct from DAC to amp route. I listen at low to moderate levels so detail and resolution are at the top of my list of fun things....however if going direct from DAC to amp robs the natural warmth and richness, I will choose a less detailed but warmer, richer presentation every time. From what I could hear in the video the preamp added a more natural 'you are there sound' rather than a detailed hi-fi sound. Listening in person might change my mind because deep, tight focused bass is very important to me also and there was no bass to be heard in that track. I vote for the preamp in. There are ways of tightening things up when using a tubed preamp like isolation and a slightly lean power cord...that's what I would try. Thanks for the video!
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@WCSS
Great to hear that you've dialed in your Focal Scala speakers. Preamp or no preamp?
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I have been keeping up with this thread almost since it's inception. There are not many places you can get an unbiased review of so many different types and brands of audio equipment on a weekly basis from the same reviewer! I have been looking to upgrade my amp for quite a while but have found it impossible to find a dealer who has the amps I'm interested in, much less my speakers to play them through. I had 4 amps I was interested in and thought would mate well with my system, room and musical tastes. I only found 1 dealer who would ship me (at my cost if I didn't purchase the amp) one of the amps I was interested in for an in home demo..... I finally decided to PM whitecamaross and ask for his advice. I (in detail) described my system, room, musical tastes, listening levels and what I would like to improve on over my current amp. I gave him my list of amps I was interested in (all of which he has reviewed in his system). After talking (email and phone) with him MANY times he told me because I listen at low volume levels, the amps I thought would sound good in my home would have to be turned up loud to sound their best. He suggested the Plinius SB-301 mk2 for my application. He had recently had that amp in his system, loved it and was ready to sell it. BTW he had a couple of the other amps I was interested in but didn't think they would be a good match for my needs.....I ended up purchasing the Plinius from him and couldn't be happier. It is clean, powerful, detailed and has control in the bass that I didn't think was possible with my speakers, and all at low to moderate listening levels.... Exactly what I wanted! Thanks whitecamaross for your help and advice.
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Thanks riaa, I always find your responses sweet, bright, euphonic and sparkling....well maybe not bright but definitely sweet, euphonic and sparkling!
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So is this thread going to morph into "My Long List of Cables and My Personal Review of Each!" ? |
You are wasting your breath with this guy....I have never owned an amp that I just plugged into my system that didn't need some kind of tuning of the system to get the most out of it. Whether it was power cords, IC's. SC's, preamp and even speakers and subs. At the Mephisto's level it's going to take way more time and testing...obviously.
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@ricevs
I agree with you on this one. There are a few posters on this thread who take things way too seriously. Audio is supposed to be fun. The videos are fun, this thread is fun.....most of the time.
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@guyl
Seems like my journey has been a little different than yours. I have had dozens of systems over the years. Earlier systems (that were nowhere near as resolving) as my current system, took only a week or two to dial in. In my current system there is much more information to be heard which takes me months of fine tuning to get it just right. Adding a new component or cable now seems to really change tonal balance, bass, soundstage and always integration to my subs.....maybe it's just me being more obsessive about it....lol
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How about getting the Canadians in the mix with their 870a / 740p combo? |
So you can play a 'cover' of a song on youtube without any copyright problems? Is that correct? I know the OP was having problems playing demo songs that posters were requesting. |
Jay,
Oh FGS play something for viber. Let him pick a 2 minute piece of his choice....it would make his year. Your Christmas present to him....it's that time of the year.
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@WCSS
Some people think no power conditioner is best. A while back I experimented with a few conditioners and found them restricting in one way or another. I haven't had the pleasure of trying highly praised models like the Denali though....Since you seemed to enjoy the Nordost line of cables have you ever thought of trying their Qbase distribution strip?
From Nordost's website:
"The essence of the QBASE-Mark II concept is a straight-line AC distribution path, combined with star-earthed topology for connection to a clean ground. By eliminating any form of in-line filtering or active circuitry we maintain the lowest possible AC supply impedance, while a tiny lift in the earth impedance of all but one of the output sockets routes the signal grounds directly to the center of the star and the clean earth terminal."
I have used one for years and have experienced no restrictive issues of any kind. The idea (as probably with most AC devices) is to use you best cable to power the Qbase giving the benefit / flavor of that cable to everything plugged into the unit.
It would be interesting to throw this type of unit in the mix of power conditioners for comparison.....conditioner shootout!
Keep up the good work, very interesting.
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@WCSS
Between your day job, your family, this thread and your YouTube channel, surely you have time to modify a pair of Tektons.
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My takeaway from the latest video posted (Part 2: Jay's Audio Lab & OCD Mikey debate!) is Mikey enjoys a more laid back, warmer, less detailed presentation that smooths over harsh recordings while Jay prefers a more neutral true to life sound. I think I'm somewhere in the middle of the two. I've heard systems that can play anything and sound ok, but I agree with Jay that those systems begin to sound homogenous after a while.....again, personal preference.
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The Boulder 2060..... Oh no what about your back! |
I disagree..... "Louder = Better"
Once you damage your hearing permanently the contest is over! |
Speaker #1 sounds more detailed and accurate. #2 is smoother and probably less fatiguing. I'm guessing #1 is the Wilson and #2 Dynaudio.
Could it be the 1st speaker clip is really DAC direct to amp and #2 is through the preamp same speakers? lol
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@bill_k
Oh...got it thx. Not familiar with Luxman gear. |
With a degree in music performance and playing live music for years in my teens, 20's and 30's I have played / heard a lot of loud music. I damaged my left ear around 20 years ago and now have to be carful of the volume I listen to now. I built a low distortion very detailed system that sounds great at low levels. I listen daily to levels in the 60's with peaks into the low 70's. I learned that the ear adjusts to the level listened to daily.
So many musicians have acquired tinnitus, hyperacusis and have gone deaf from the constant exposure to high volume / levels of music.....Have fun and be safe.
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Speakers 8.5' wide and I sit 9.5' away from them. |
It would be pretty difficult getting closer however I had them 9.5' wide for a long time but I felt the vocals and instruments within the soundstage where not defined enough so I moved them in to 8.5'. Everything sharpened up and became more clearly defined....I also point the speakers almost directly at the listener....so a big toe-in.
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whitecamaross,
I am very happy with my new amp purchase (thanks to you and your very informative forum posts). This year I’m planning on upgrading my source. Have you had the chance to compare the Lumin to the PS Audio to the Sim 650D (if you still have it)? Thanks, Ron
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