RIAA and tjassoc,
I just joined the orchestra, so I have to be on my best behavior. A season pass is $40 for single, $65 for a couple, for participating chorus members. For the listeners, it is free, but contributions are welcome. For the singers and musicians, it is really a sight reading exercise due to budget limitations which go for the rental of the church, music, and goodies to eat at intermission. Even with just sight reading, the performances go pretty well. The impressive percussion section is at the left as you walk in, so if you crave excitement, sit near them. Listen to the solo singers rehearsing at the piano in the right front. Looking forward to meeting you too, RIAA. Regards, Russell.
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You know since I am so close to Princeton (last worked in Pennington) Im thinking we can make it a Threesome. Wont that be a joyous occasion?? Before you get too comfortable in your chair at the Church make sure you gaze your eyes upwards into the rafters directly over your head. I might just be up there with rope in hand ready to ring some bells. |
I'm humbled and grateful viber6, very much looking forward to meeting you!
Thank you again for you kind offer :-)
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tjassoc,
Also, the singers rehearse with piano early at just after 3. This is an opportunity to hear them at close range. I am amazed at their power as well as musicality. Trained classical singers don't need microphones. The audience sits way in the back, behind the chorus who are projecting their sound away from the audience, so you will get 10X more impact during the early rehearsal.
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tjassoc,
I am looking forward to meeting you. Get there earlier, a little after 3 when we set up. You can sit with me in the violin section for at least a little while, but the orchestra may be squeezed tight so it may not be possible to seat you there through the performance. But meanwhile, we can have some fun as I play solo for you in the lobby, the men's room (although the tiles in the BR make it too reverberant, but at close range it is fun and exciting). I like the sound in the small church. Filled with the chorus of people and musicians, the reverberance is toned down, but the sound is still fresh and exciting. Regards, Russell.
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I thought this thread was great before . . . .
Did I say I can't believe viber6's kind offer? |
Viber6 - I would really enjoy the opportunity to share an early evening of music. I live in central NJ and am finding your offer hard to believe (meant in the most complimenting way)!
Count me in, I am very much looking forward to the experience.
Thank you for your kind, generous offer!
Most sincerely, Thomas Foti. |
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@mikepaul
Clarification: I meant the total cost of the turntable as equiped - table/arm/cartridge. |
I will wait and see what block audio will do. I have been told that it kills gryphon amps.
We shall see. |
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Maplegrove, Those are the 300 Momentum's at HigherFi for 30K...not the 400's. 300's are a big step down and the upgrade is 15K+ to 400 so its not a bargain at all. |
dracule1 and dasign,
I never owned any Apogee speaker, but heard them enough at dealers to reject them without further consideration because of their dull sound. The major factor in any panel dipole speaker is sufficient distance to the front wall. The Apogees I heard had plenty of distance in back of them, although I don't remember them being toed in. Toe-in is most important, and in those days I didn't realize how critical toe-in is. I don't like to disturb anyone's setup out of respect, but I am simply able to get a good idea of the effect of toe-in just by moving in front of the speaker as I listen to the tonal balance in mono. Apogees just didn't have good implementation of ribbons. I will keep an open mind about the Alsyvox implementation of planar magnetic technology. It is a pity that Apogee went under. Many wealthy audiophiles think that something isn't any good unless it is expensive, so Alsyvox may be capitalizing on that attitude by pricing their products very high. Good ribbon or electrostatic technology is not expensive, and doesn't require R&D as much as dedicated dynamic drivers with low distortion such as Magico is doing.
I heard the original ML CLS. It was vastly inferior to the CLX in the HF. The CLS was an example of the inferior design I have referred to--large curved panels. The CLX uses a narrow curved panel for the mids/HF and a larger but still modestly sized flat panel for the lower range. The narrow curved CLX panel has less time smearing than the faulty geometry of the large curved CLS panel was. WC is realizing that the larger Neo panel has rolled off HF compared to the CLX. The Neo has a more bassy type of tonal balance.
Yesterday I played violin in a church orchestra, the Princeton Society of Musical Amateurs devoted to performing large choral works. We did Carl Orff's Carmina Burana, a big piece with lots of percussion, plus baritone, tenor, soprano solo singers. I sat about 30 feet from the percussion section on the other side of the stage. The startling clarity of the metallic instruments like cymbal, triangle, chimes and even the tightness of the mid bass from the tympani drum which had the impact of a metal hammer banging an anvil, was in stark contrast to the woolly DULL veiled sounds from most audio systems. At my distance, most of the percussion sound was no higher than 85 dB, although there were probably instantaneous peaks of 100 dB which were rare. The extreme clarity was not because the HF were any more brilliant than I am used to, but because the rest of the freq range was equally fast and coherent with the HF. The whole thing was crisp, fresh air. This can only be revealed by an electrostatic speaker of the highest quality implementation which conforms to the principles I have spoken about. I have an open mind to see what implementations may come from ribbon or planar magnetic designers, but forget about dynamic drivers. Dynamic tweeters can be SOTA, but more massive dynamic midrange and LF drivers are hopelessly inadequate to keep up with the speed and low distortion of tweeters. And forget about large powerful amps which have more devices than low powered amps and tend to have higher distortion as the price to be paid for more power. The objective is quality, not quantity. Anyone who says otherwise should just do the listening and participation that I do, instead of hanging out with audio salesmen who have interests in selling high priced gear and may have little musical training and experience.
If anyone wants to meet me at the next concert 4 PM Dec 16, we are doing the Handel Messiah at the Princeton, NJ Universalist Church at 50 Cherry Hill Rd off Rt 206. I sit at the 2nd stand in the 1st violin section. I always welcome people to sit with me in the orchestra to experience what I am talking about, although the place may be packed for this wonderful great event.
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pokey77,thanks for that info , although the "total system price of 15k" might be missing a "0",lol... no problem. i looked everything up..very interesting. thanks again! |
There are a pair of Momentum for sale at Higherfi for 30k |
@mikepaul
Hi Mike, I've heard the new Progression stereo amp with the new Progression two-box preamp; paired with Sasha 2s, ARC Foundation Phone Pre, Luxman table - approx $15k total. System used Nordost interconnects and Transparent power cabling and line conditioning. I heard it at zero hours last Wednesday and it was very very good. Then on Sunday and it was the same - ultimately controlled at all volume levels. Very high resolution with extended and delicate upper registers, beautiful midrange, and well-controlled but textured bass. I realize the Progression is a step up but it has fairly similar specs and if you like the industrial steam punk look, it is a beauty not only to behold but to listen to as well. I think the pre/amp combo is right around $44k, so, not inexpensive.
I have heard the D'Agostino Classic Stereo amp (late 2017) with Nagra Classic Pre, DCS, Aurender, Sabrina's but liked the Nagra Classic amp quite a bit better. The D'Agostino Classic Stereo amp, the one time I heard it, was very good midrange on up but the vice grip on the bass suffocated the texture on the bass and that is why I liked the Nagra better - it had a little less control but lots of texture and palpability. The Nagra Classic pre & amp were $36k at that time. |
WC; I suspect that since the Neoliths are relatively new, limited number produced so far and "expensive", this could explain why there isn't a Neolith owner's thread yet on the Martin Logan Owner's club website. I haven't seen much written about the Martin Logan Statement2 speakers either. But, in my opinion, the Statement 2s are up there as the best speakers made. You need a very large room for those. Have you contacted the dealer or Martin Logan about the issue you are having with the highs on the Neoliths? enjoy |
Does anyone have any opinion/experience with D’Agostino Classic Stereo or Classic 2 Stereo amp?
Obviously it is his lower level line, but it has good specs :
Power
300 watts @ 8Ω
600 watts @ 4Ω
1,200 watts @ 2Ω
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Viber6/Dracule1,
Which Apogee speakers have you owned? What ancilliary equipment were driving them?
Dracule1,
Which refurbished Apogee retailers cannot set them up properly?
I had my Apogee Duetta Signature rebuilt by Rich Murry from True Sound Works. My DS have natural and extended treble since I followed the original Apogee installation procedure. Second, Apogee restorers typically only restore the speakers and ship them back to their owners.
There are only 2 official US Apogee restorers, 1 on the East coast (Music Technology, VA) and 1 on the West coast (True Sound Works Audio, NV). Do you really think they will drive/fly half of the USA to their Apogee owners to install them? This would be a local sales store responsibility. As you know, there are none of them left, due to Apogee going out of business shortly after being bought up by a VC company.
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@viber6,
I almost completely agree with you about Apogees sounding too smooth and rolled off. Unfortunately, 99% of the time they’re not set up correctly. IMO the only person who knew how to setup Apogees was the late Jason Bloom who owned the company. He knew the correct electronics, cabling, and speaker positioning to extract the most realistic resolution I’ve heard from a speaker. None of the present refurbished Apogee dealers can set them up correctly. Worse thing you can do is drive a Apogee with tube amps. Every single instance I’ve heard them with tube amps was an abysmal failure. Apogee is somewhat of a unicorn. It can take you to the heights of nirvana when done right, but it is rare occurrence.
I havent heard the CLX yet, but if it’s an improvement over the original CLS, it would be a very special speaker indeed. I’ve heard the Kingsound King, but the setup was in a small hotel room. Hardly fair to come to any conclusion based on that. But I do remember the high frequencies being one of most transparent detailed sound I’ve heard, save for perhaps the Maggie ribbon tweeter. |
ron17,
"It pays to have a pro (especially with speakers) help with set-up." I couldn't agree more. When I owned Wilson Audio speakers it was great to have a dealer set them up. I live in the San Antonio, TX and would pay money to have a dealer setup my Monitor Audio PL500 II speakers. Does anyone know a dealer in my local area that would setup my speakers? If so, please send me a PM.
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@WCSS
My last 3 pairs of speakers were a ported design and because of room/placement constraints I've struggled with too much bass in the (36-42hz) region. I sold my Aurender music server and bought an Innuos Zenith mk2 SE so I could use Roon and the parametric EQ portion of Roon's DSP Engine. That worked fine but I really don't like having to use EQ in a 2 channel system (great for HT though). So I started searching for a speaker that would be a better fit for my room. When you wrote about your Magico's and your impressions of them I thought the sealed cab design and lack of low bass would be a better fit for me and my room. I found a great deal on the YG Carmel 2's (the smallest floorstander YG makes) which are 1, a sealed cab design and 2, flat down to 50hz, -5db @ 40hz and -10db @30hz. The YG's were lean in the exact areas my room produced too much bass .... a perfect fit for my room. I now have better tighter more defined bass and don't have to use EQ anymore. I find the YG's very detailed, highly refined and imaging and soundstage are crazy good (way better than my prior speakers).....One of my closest friends owns a hi-end audio store so I asked him to help me set-up the YG's. We spent 3 hours listening and moving them until they were nowhere near where I had them set-up. It pays to have a pro (especially with speakers) help with set-up. He wants me to listen for a couple of weeks before he comes back for a fine tuning......For me (so far) the best jump in SQ has been finding the best speaker for my room and musical tastes. I will probably be adjusting and tweaking cables etc... for the next few months...will update later.
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Thank you for the input WC. Very much appreciate your dedication to this forum. |
I’ve owned those pieces. I am going to say that you are better off with a Luxman 900u. Those pl500s are very very good speakers. THe 1.2kw are unnecessary but what I remember is that the pl500s sounded really good biamped. Try getting a second Hegel and do vertical biamping with them. The platinum will be far better sounding if you do it this way.
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WC, I was referring to McIntosh MC1.2KW mono amps, not Pass Labs. I have Monitor Audio PL500 II's and Audio Research Reference 5SE preamp. |
@ron17 stop hiding with those yg speakers man. You know I want to hear more of your impressions. For instance, what do you like the most about it ? What do you wish it did better?
I could try yg speakers this year. You never know :) |
Thank you for following my thread ihasaguy. I am glad I have another follower here. Let me know if you have any questions that I can help you with.
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Eversaudio: what speakers and what preamp do you have ? Hegel is good and better value than pass 350.8. Quite frankly, I’m somewhat disappointed with the 350.8. Owned it twice and it didn’t make any sort of impression other than its construction. I feel like the .5 pass amps were more enjoyable. They had more sweetness and nice mids although the lows weren’t great but it was just a more enjoyable series. I don’t plan on getting more .8 pass amps unless I strike a deal on a 200.8 or 600.8. Other than that, I’m done with pass. The Hegel h30 is FAR FAAAAAAR a better amp for the money than the 350.8.
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@Ihasaguy
"electronic synergy to your speaker of choice has always seemed major in my eyes" This is THE most important factor. |
Quick question WC...in your opinion, do the Mac 1.2kw's better a pair of Hegel H30's? I currently have one H30 with chance to get another. I also have a chance to get a pair of 1.2kw for a great price. Your thoughts would be highly valued. I am guessing two Hegels are the way to go. |
WC, I concur completely with your analogy. I have read this thread from the beginning and live vicariously through your journey, Thank You.
My system is not in the same ballpark, perhaps state as your equipment, yet I feel a kinship of sound (and cars) as I went through many changes until I arrived at my modest system centered on Maggie’s.
Room placement and electronic synergy to your speaker of choice has always seemed major in my eyes. I have always taken the Road Less Travelled, witnessed by the Lotus Europa I restored when I retired.
Thanks again from a major fan in South Georgia!! |
I don’t think there’s any plug and play on any car either. I’ll go back to the car analogy. Are You familiar with the dodge demon? It claims to have crazy hp and that It can run a 1/4 mile in 9 seconds. That said, find me one that has ran that 1/4 mile yet. You need seat time, learn how to launch it off the line and keep tweaking its suspension and launch control and do a proper burnout in order to see if you can crack 9s in the quarter of a mile. Just because the car can run 9s, it doesn’t mean my grandma can run 9s in it too.
This has been the issue with the Neolith. As good as it is, it can still sound like a turd if you don’t have the proper set up. There’s no reference speaker that is idiot proof my man.
the more of a “reference” a speaker is, the more attention you need to pay to it. It’s easy for manufacturers to make a speaker sound good with any type of music. They simply shoot for a specific sound signature across the board and that’s it.
Ive only owned the speakers for 3 days. I can’t say I know everything about it yet. |
At these prices, it’s almost a crime they’re not plug and play...
Admit it or not, at the moment it’s more plug and pray..lol |
@WCSS
Maybe you shouldn't post anymore first impressions....Some people get too worked up over them! lol |
Techno: you’re summarizing preliminary information.... I said it above, the speakers are still:
1. on wheels rather than spikes which will allow me to tilt them forward and lower them in order to get the panels to hit you in more of direct angle.
2. All I’ve done is move them 5 ft from the front all. I’ve not began to move stuff out of wall that’s behind them
3. Yes, anyone buying a speaker of this caliber should expect to bring the rest of the set up to the same level. Do you buy a porsche gt and expect it to grip the road the same if you used Chinese tires? Do you expect a race engine to produce the same horsepower on 87 octane Rather than using the recommended race fuel?
4. THe sweet spot is far from narrow. That was one of my first comments above.
5. Why would anyone compare the highs from a panel against the highs of a beryllium tweeter? Two totally different technologies. It becomes a matter of flavor at this point.
This experience is indeed what I signed up for. I wanted to experience with my own ears the trade offs from different speakers.
I love Wilson’s dynamics, hate its bass. I love mágicos highs and don’t love its bass. I love the bass/mids from the Neolith but highs will need to be fixed to my liking by experimenting with more combos. The Neolith demolishes the mids and lows from the magico s5mk2 and Wilson sasha2 even if you used a pair of Sasha’s and s5mk2s playing all at once they still won’t come close to the fullness of the Neolith. The mids from the Neolith are on a whole different tier group.
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So in summary,
the Neoliths seems to lack HF compared to the Magico, and HF is not as good as a narrower real ribbon tweeter can be
the Neoliths seems to need an hydroelectric centrale to make them sing, a 45k sota Momentum Dag brute force seems lacking at the job
the Neoliths don’t image like they’re supposed to unless you find the exact sweet spot in the room , which it seems was not totally found yet.
the Neoliths are not as dynamic as Wilson.
Well, reading between the lines, it’s a total complete success. I really feel the urge to buy me a set of sota Neoliths.
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cleeds,
Of course, you are technically correct that all freq diminish with distance, and my choice of word, "evaporate" is mistaken. However, HF have shorter wavelengths, so air absorption of HF is more pronounced than at other freq. because more wavelengths occur with the same distance. You can hear the different tonal balance of an instrument from different distances, with the sound being duller further away. I commented on my experience in the concert hall at the 5th, 12th and 25th row. Another effect is the reverberation from all freq bouncing around many times, but the shorter the wavelength, the effect is accentuated. In addition, you can listen at the door outside the apartment where someone is playing music. Then open the door and stand at the same distance--the sound will be much more brilliant in the HF. The reason is that HF are absorbed more than lower freq by any material such as air, door, etc. If you want to play some music loud in your apartment, you will not bother neighbors as much if the music has more HF than lower freq. because the HF don't make it thru the walls. What bothers them most is low freq boom and shaking of the walls. In summary, all freq diminish with distance, but HF diminish more than lower freq.
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Mikepaul: so right now I can’t really say I’ve heard these speakers to the fullest. I don’t have enough current. There’s a difference between having an amp that can drive a speaker and one that can make them sing. Just because an amp can drive a speaker doesn’t mean it can make it sing. Right now I have integrateds that sound awesome but I won’t know how much better these speakers will get until they have more break in and more power.
Block audio monoblocks will be demoed in my home the week of thanksgiving I hope.
200 watts class a will/should make a serious improvement.
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I find it interesting that there’s not a single ongoing Martin Logan Neolith thread over at the Martin logan forum. Not a single Martin Logan Neolith owners thread on any website. I think if I start one I’ll hear crickets lol. Not many Neolith owners out there.
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whitecamaross...But you haven't tried your killer mono's yet,correct? Isn't it still possible to match or surpass the Wilson's dynamics with more power hooked up? Or the Neo just doesn't have the potential to be a dynamic beast? It's hard to fathom. Maybe when you install the Block Monos that will alter the perception? Looking forward to your review. |
viber6
... The next reality is that HF's
evaporate with distance, and it is an objective fact ... Sorry, but sound doesn't "evaporate" at any frequency.
... there are
marked HF loses at greater distances, objectively measured by
microphones as well as heard by educated listeners Of course, all frequencies diminish with distance and you can measure that loss as 6 dB with each doubling of the distance.
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grey9hound,
You still don't know what you are missing, due to lack of close listening experience. A child with better hearing than me is entitled to say that my perceptions are flawed, and would be correct to say that I am wrong because I don't know what I am missing. I would not say to the child that he is wrong, because I THINK that I hear it all, when the reality is that compared to the child, I don't. The next reality is that HF's evaporate with distance, and it is an objective fact that there are marked HF loses at greater distances, objectively measured by microphones as well as heard by educated listeners.
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WC,
For your priorities of dynamics plus good purity, I think the Neo is the best speaker for you. As a hybrid, it gives you everything you want. For those who want the ultimate in clarity and are willing to sacrifice some bass and overall dynamics, the CLX is better. Do you remember the mid/HF characteristics of the CLX to compare it with the Neo? I believe that you liked the CLX even when they were closer to the back wall than your Neo is now. Just imagine the clarity, fresh air and space you would have if you listened to the CLX at the 5 foot distance. I also am guessing that you thought the bass on the CLX was adequate because they were a lot closer to the wall and got bass reinforcement from that closeness. At 5 feet, you would probably find the CLX to have inadequate bass. Then the ultimate system would be the CLX positioned at 5 feet, plus REL woofer, although the Neo would probably still have more dynamics throughout the entire frequency range because of the larger woofers and panels. |
@Viber6
That is your opinion, which , of course is wrong . I am not missing HF info. It is all there . |
grey9hound, we addressed this subject before. I explained my perspective of close up listening. You may never have had this experience, or you just happen to prefer laid back sound, like some people who like pasta soggy rather than al dente. All different tastes, which is OK, but realize you are missing much true HF info which is NOT piercing if volumes are at sensible levels. I know that for your music, you like to play it loud which you can't tolerate from amps that deliver full HF detail and extension. But that is not about true high fidelity, which means low distortion at natural volume levels, not cranked. |
Greyhound: I agree with your comments about the highs. That said, I think there’s one element here that we are all not mentioning: we need to allow our ears to adjust to the new sound. I believe that there needs to be an adjustment period in which your ears need to capture what’s happening. When I first sat down to hear the Neolith I felt like the highs lacked detail. I moved them forward about a foot and more detail began to emerge.
This speaker is the only speaker I’ve owned that makes you feel as if the mids are floating in the air between the speakers. The size of the instruments is much larger; The mid bass is present and with lots of energy. The bass is more than you could ask for.
Whats the biggest drawback so far? Well it’s that the speaker is like a huge canvas. It will expose everything you draw on it and will let you hear it. If you enjoy older recordings that aren’t perfect then be prepared to hear them not so perfect to the point that you feel as if the speaker sounds like sh@t.
Is it as dynamic as a Wilson Audio? No it is not but it is more dynamic than any other electrostatic I’ve owned. No speaker has been more dynamic than Wilson. Not even magico. Wilson audio had dynamics that sometimes made you jump out of your chair. However, the bass was another story...
my biggest issue I believe is power. I need serious juice and current. I will tell you that if you all lived close by and wanted to have my opinion about how good is the bass on an amp you have, I’d tell you to bring it and connect it to the Neolith. You would find out right away.
For those of you who don’t know, the Neolith does not have powered woofers. It has passive 15 inch and 12 inch drivers. the amp needs to do all the work.
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dracule1,
OK, I respect your observations of the Wisdom Audio Adrenaline. I don't know that model, but a few years ago I heard the Sage series. However, my impressions of all Apogee ribbon models I heard is that they were excessively smooth, kind of like old school tube amps, and markedly rolled off in HF. Yes, lacking in RESOLUTION, not hyper-resolution. (There is no such thing as hyper-resolution in an accurate speaker without quirky frequency anomalies.) The reason is the LARGE ribbons. A large panel of any driver, whether electrostatic, ribbon, planar magnetic will create off axis HF rolloff from the edges to your ears. This is why the Stax F83 was rolled off compared to the F81--the tall F83 created large off axis HF rolloff from the high vertical parts. But a NARROW quarter inch ribbon won't create any horizontal HF rolloff, because that ribbon has full HF delivery way off axis. But there is still the problem of the large vertical height. Line source promotional material still ignores the HF loss from higher vertical "segments". Even though at ear level you are getting everything, and you can stand and still get everything if there are vertical segments at ear level, if you do some integral calculus you see that the taller the driver, the more off axis segments there are, creating more HF rolloff. Also, sitting too close to a tall line source magnifies the angle of off axis, creating more HF rolloff and a tonal balance shifted to the bass. The remarkable thing about the ML CLX is that it has the highest resolution of any commercial speaker available, except for the flat panel KingSound King. The fact that the CLX can attain this excellent resolution DESPITE one curved panel, leads me to speculate about how great the CLX would be if they just straightened the curve out. That would be a testament to ML's superior membrane/stator technology, if only they straightened it. The disadvantage of the very tall and wide King is the off-axis vertical dispersion I just spoke about. The CLX is a reasonable height and width, to get a focused, non bloated image. My ideal speaker would be a near point source quarter inch square electrostatic to yield no off-axis rolloff, and I would be the size of an insect to hear the delicate tiny volume sound. But the size of the CLX is a reasonable compromise to get enough volume with minimized rolloff.
By the way, someone recently had a valid point that the larger electrostatic membrane enables less excursion than a smaller membrane for the same volume level. Less excursion would create even more linearity and less distortion. However, I believe that the disadvantage of the HF rolloff effect of the larger membrane outweighs the benefit of less excursion in the large membrane.
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@viber6 Tubes are real sounding, not rolled off. Different tubes and Tube Amps have different sound , just like any ss amps and their components and design have different sounds. It is true that it would be difficult to find the right tube amps to work on the Neoliths. Here is some mono tube amps that should do it well. https://www.usatubeaudio.com/product/amplification/atma-sphere-ma-3-mk-3-3/. These are much less than the amps he is wanting ,and well worth a try IMO. I keep getting the feeling that if the treble doesn’t pierce your ears or rip your head off, you think that it is lacking. I and, many others here will disagree. |
@viber6,
yes, I have auditioned the Wisdom Audio Adrenaline several times. Its sound is majestic, but I’ve always heard a subtle coloration or veiling that made it less transparent compared to the best electrostatics and ribbon speakers. You may argue an electrostat is technically superior in resolution, but to me a ribbon speaker properly implemented sounds more realistic and natural. The original Martin Logan CLS was the most transparent speaker I’ve ever heard but it tended to sound too hyper realistic. The Apogee Duetta properly setup just sounded plain real without any hyper resolution. I agree curved electrostat panel speaker has a notable drawback, rolled off high end. I never liked any of ML hybrids. |
Hi WC!
My setup isn’t on the level as yours, but I’d like to leave my experience.
I bought a pair of 802d3 paired with a Krell Evo 402. Sound was right, but it seemed like something was missing.
After my dealer suggestion, I decided to bi-amp them with a JRDG 625 and it was night and day!
Powerful bass, perfect mids and soundstage!
Hope this helps |
