Back to the synergy issue for just a moment. I think the cabling and matched equipment idea has significant merit. I went through a bunch of equipment in my limited price range in order to find the best for me sound from my 3.6 Maggie’s until I paired a McIntosh tube preamp with a pair of MC501 amps.
My thought became McIntosh is always comparable with itself and for me and my limited budget it is true. No reason that high end equipment would not make their gear match as they control the design Of their matched components.
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I would like to throw in my two cents on the "Live" versus heard in your room discussion.
While expensive systems can recreate many things, they cannot recreate all live performances.
I have heard the Allman Brothers "Live at the Fillmore from every possible source, i.e. CD, SACD, R2R in 2 and 4 channel, vinyl and cassette. The over/under is 3,000 on how many times I have listened to that album (take the Over).
I also saw them on that tour in a concert hall in the fall of 1971. That sound cannot be recreated in your home. It can be really really good, but not the same.
Now I so believe you can make Eva Cassidy or Dave Brubeck sound like they are in the room, but it is a different sound.
Happy Listening |
WCSS,
I have followed this tread off and on since the beginning. I am in complete agreement with you as it is Your journey. Some folks with agendas have been a thorn for a long time IMHO.
I need to thank you for all the work and insight provided. You are the only reviewer I trust. Putting your own money into the journey has demonstrated a love for knowledge amid a search for great sound.
I have been away for a while, and learning you have a pair of big Maggie’s makes me smile and look forward to your shootout upcoming.
Again, missing your acquisition on 20.7s (I think), did you ever consider the 30.7 models or did you get a great bargain on the ones you have. Just curious about the process and forgive my failure to read about six months of attacks on you to catch up. |
WC, I concur completely with your analogy. I have read this thread from the beginning and live vicariously through your journey, Thank You.
My system is not in the same ballpark, perhaps state as your equipment, yet I feel a kinship of sound (and cars) as I went through many changes until I arrived at my modest system centered on Maggie’s.
Room placement and electronic synergy to your speaker of choice has always seemed major in my eyes. I have always taken the Road Less Travelled, witnessed by the Lotus Europa I restored when I retired.
Thanks again from a major fan in South Georgia!! |
I have read this entire thread, but missed one thing. In all these discussions of audio at the high end, no one ever speaks of vinyl and turntables as a source.
I was contemplating adding a turntable into my system to be able to enjoy some of my albums that have been in storage for 30 years.
I am not trying to create contoversy about costs and relative merits of tone arms, cartridges, etc. Just curious about the lack of discussion regarding this source. |
WCSS,
I know you are in Florida, were you close enough to where the 30.7 Maggies weee being demonstrated?
I understand you are all in on the Neoliths, but hoped you had heard the 30.7s for an opinion.
Thanks SO much for sharing your journey. I could never do more than 30k for an entire system, and live vicariosly through your exploits!
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WC,
I concur with your thought to sell the Plinius. Time to move forward and see how the Titan compares with the big Pass amp.
Looking forward to more feedback on how the Titans sound after more listening. I suspect they will grow on you as time moves forward. Hope you had a chance to check out my small songlist I recommended as I think it shows off your system.
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To those who think concerts are a hour and a half, you never experienced the Allman Bros Band.
Being old I saw them early on with Duane Allman, and many other iterations theough the years. Their average concert was 3 hours and in London in 1974 they played for 4 hours, ending with a half hour version of Whipping Post as the last train was leaving shortly.
Many of us are like WC and enjoy extended listening at volume. There is a price to pay over time, but I would not trade my experiences.
Different strokes for different folks as they say.
All that said I enjoy early blues as well, listened to Willie Dixon’s Spoonful today as recorded by Howlin’ Wolf many years ago. |
WC,
I am most interested in your most recent acquisitions, particularly the C2600 preamp.
I look forward to your experience with it and the MX160.
Thanks again for aharing your continuing journey!! Life is Never dull in this space!
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I am most interested in the C2600 report from WCSS. Given the nature of McIntosh used equipment holding its price, I am considering moving up from my C220 to the C2600.
One other thing to also be mindful of, is understanding that the C2600 is substantially less than some of the other preamps that have been used in the journey.
Thanks for including a piece of gear that is a bit more affordable!
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I believe it is interesting that 25k is classified as the high end of a
“budget” system. The classification of high end being more than the cost of many homes at 200k to 500k makes that segment unavailable to all but the very rich.
Where is the person of average means to get high quality audio? It is my suggestion that a really great system can be had for 5-10k. Now that means some used equipment, but that is good with me.
About half my system was purchased used.
It is my firm belief that people of means can chase the last 1%, but the marginal cost versus marginal gain as you pass into the upper reaches of cost is minuscule.
I have heard the Doors music on very high end systems, quite excellent 20-25k systems and from the experience of sitting on stage with them playing live in Germany. It was much different than all their recorded music, no matter how fabulous the equipment was. And I still love listening to them now.
Point being, all that money spent just gives one very nice view of their music that is most pleasurable, but cannot replicate the original.
I am glad people have an extra 175-475k to spend, but those budgets marginalize opinions and equipment to a very few. My economist wife concurs about marginal cost, marginal gain.
I love watching WCSS’s journey, but it is far more meaningful when items like the OPPO shine through as that is more an Everyman piece of gear. And I appreciate so much his earlier review of many amps that fall into the realm of the “budget” systems in the 20-25k range!
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I just hope one day, when the stars align, that you will have an opportunity to listen to 30.7 Maggies and share your opinion.
I, as Many who follow this thread appreciate your Totally unbiased view of equipment, speakers, amos, pre amos, cables, etc.
You are the ONE source I trust as you are open minded, and just seeking the Truth.
Thanks for all you do and have done for those of us who fillow your path. |
Once again we are walking down the road of perspective. Various posters have different views of what is more important and/or sounds best to THEIR ears. We do not all have the same preferences in sound and due to experience have specific preferences.
There is no absolute and right or wrong is a matter of subjective taste, particularly at the levels of gear WCSS is involved with.
What makes a great analogy is cars as I am old enough to have ridden in a Camaro SS when it was new back in the day. While I love big American iron, I also have owned and restored a Lotus Europa, quite a different vehicle. Is one better than the other, yes at some things, yet the other sparkles in a different dimension. Some people love power, some love handling, similar to audio. At the high end you get much of each, in lower brackets you can get much of one and less of the other. Audio is much the same.
The same is true with audio gear. Thus, there are no absolutes in terms of "Best". Thinking that a personal preference is superior to other's view is just a fools errand.
That is why I LOVE WCSS's journey through gear in a random walk through the top end of what most of us cannot afford. I stole the term "random walk" from a financial reference. There is nothing better than an honest review of all things audio and that is what the journey is about IMHO. I am quite enjoying the ride and the minor bickering is the price I pay for reading all the posts here (not a slam at any poster, just observation).
Rock on WCSS!! |
WCSS,
I know you like to rock out at volume, You Don’t Love Me from the Allman Bros Band - Live at the Filmorr is amazing. About 7 minutes in Duane does a sweet slow solo and the double drummer scone through as well in many places, not to mention double lead guitar with Dickey Betts. Play it Loud one time.
I am not a jealous person, but I would love to hear this tune on your system. FYI, I heard it in person on their tour in 1971, very similar to the recording, except for the major volume difference.
Enjoy your journey!!
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WCSS,
I think it might be instructive if you were able to give a best in class (perhaps 2 or 3) amps, pre amps and DAC, price level.
You have amazing experience across these items in your journey. Not all of us can afford the super expensive levels you have enjoyed. I appreciate your perspective as it is truly one of experience with no ax to grind other than sharing unbiased reviews.
It would be interesting to know what you would choose at a variety of price levels, you can pick the various points.
Thanks in Advance,
A loyal follower of your journey |
Viber6, MrD,
Respectfully, how you listen to music is Much different than WCSS, myself and many others. You enjoy acoustic NON Amplified music, which is a genre I appreciate (I have had season tickets to Andre Previn conducting the Pgh Symphony in Heinz Hall, an acoustic masterpiece).
That said, I love rocking out too the classic equivalents of Clapton with Cream, Derek and the Dominos, Allman Brothers Band, Jefferson Airplane/Starship, etc,
The difference creates a substantial chasm in how various gear represents the genre.
I have sat on the stage with the Doors when they played and Nothing can recreate that sound in the home. It can be approached at a distance, but never close.
Just one guys opinion on the difference between musical choices and replication.
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WC,
One important room design thought. Getting your decision as to how to set up the room, long or short wall, has major implications with regard to A/C.
Clearly, you will want more ducting near your 2 Channel Amps as your journey will continue and getting adequate cooling is important for many amp designs.
One last thought as you are making major changes, have you thought about a generator. I am meeting my guy to size one in South Georgia. Money well spent as hurricane season is almost upon us.
Enjoy the designing of you new dedicated room!
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WC,
I am an old school guy, 70. I put together a HT 5.1 system 10 years ago, in combination with my 2 channel. I tore out all the HT stuff and now watch TV through my 2 channel system.
Not saying you should do that, but consider this thought: If you have world class 2 channel, why not watch TV, movies, etc and listen to the dream system. As opposed to hearing things blow up from behind and beside you with lesser quality.
Just ideas to contemplate. Thanks again for sharing your journey, I live vicariously through your journey and hope it continues for a long time.
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WC,
The journey continues, as it must for you (to our great pleasure watching and learning from your travels).
The price of this is letting some really great components go to others to enjoy.
No one can afford to keep the many killer pieces you have had the pleasure of auditioning.
Like many I suspect, yours is one of the very FEW reviews I trust implicitly as it is all on your own dime for the most part.
Keep on Rockin
Rick |
