My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by pokey77

@techno__dude
Seems you revel more in making a scene than in playing cordially with WC and the folks on this thread. The idea broached above concerning working on your internet civility demands your attention.

@whitecamaross 
FYI - I have not heard Alexia 2s with subs, but like @Kren0006, have heard the Alexx, and also the XVX, with the Wilson subs. It is amazing what they bring to the game. Though I don't own any of the three speakers, I've heard all three many times as they are located about five miles from my home. Not with Gryphon (would like to), but with D'Agostino and Pass and maybe the Luxman separates. I've also heard at least the Alexia 2s with T+A, which is also pretty special.

Jay,

Did you mention in your latest video what your newest dealer product is? Looking forward to learning about that.

 

edit: I just finished the video and think I remember you making comment about the next brand you will rep but no naming it yet. Like I said, I'm looking forward to learning about that as I'm sure many others are too.

With all due respect, "Let's just watch the videos or simply leave this thread", is the best bit of advice I've seen in here in a while. If you don't like the channel, you are free to move on to the next one.
@whitecamaross

Re: the Mike @ Suncoast interview, Mike sounds like he has a good pulse on his audience and would be a great person to do business with. Dealers who are only selling components do not help the hobby, but those who focus holistically on system and room can provide a much greater value service to clients and a system that ultimately sounds much better.

BTW, I'm in SoCal and do not know Mike and have never done business with him. But I do have a dealer that shares some of Mike's same business acumen.
@kren0006

@viber6

In terms of subscribing, you need to click on the little bell next to the "subscribe" button to get notifications.

@viber6 

@kren0006 

Kren wrote in regards to what Viber said, “the common meaning of "synergy" as used here, is some magical combination of bite and warmth. "Wrong” I also, as well as Ron do not understand Synergy to consist of bite and warmth and I'm sure that Jay does not either. Synergy is just that combination of gear and wire that brings the sound that suits one's personal preference. We ALL have our own personal preference. Let's stop with the implied conversation that there is or probably ever  will be one true correct music reproduction. For each of us, it is what makes us feel good, what envelopes us, when we listen to music. Some like detail more, some less; some like warmth more, some less. Find your personal preference and understand that it is just that, YOURS (it is not universal - there is no wrong or right).

@viber6 

"Ron17, I also criticize his assessment of MSB.  No, I never heard either MSB or Playback Designs in my system, but my criticism is that he doesn't understand the sound of live, unamplified music.  He mainly listens to rock/pop, and has only a rudimentary knowledge of classical music." What does this have to do with anything? Do you understand how critical this is? These are the kind of comments that bring the focus on you. You may not agree with him, but you also don't need to call him out on the internet as if you have the one truth. Regardless of live music experience, we all listen at home the way we want to, not for someone else. We build systems for ourselves, not others.

@viber6 

 

It is clear from your comments that you desire to set everyone straight, including me. Please understand that you have your POV, I also have mine. Mine is based on many many years of participating in this hobby, attending many shows, dealer visits, and of course, interacting with those in the hobby. Please stop trying to twist Jays comments to support your arguments and just agree that what you value in music reproduction is different from many in the hobby. Doesn't make it wrong or right, it just makes it your preference; and good for you.

 

Please, now, let's get this thread back on track.

@viber6 

I understand your bent toward taking someone's comments to make them fit your argument. It is getting old.

I have been to hundreds of concerts; mostly rock but also symphony and jazz shows. I have an intimate knowledge of what live music sounds like. However, I don't believe it is a must to understand that and have an audio system. What you must understand is what you like and then build a system that meets those needs, whatever your experience or preferences. Build your system the way YOU need/want it to sound. And don't be critical of what others systems sound like or what they prefer. There are ways to communicate your likes/dislikes without the being disagreeable. Let us be civil and enjoy sharing what we like. That is the point of this thread. Again, I ask that this thread get back on track.

@whitecamaross 

Let me just say, I've truly enjoyed following your thread. I'm sure many others do too but just do not post. The fact you've done all you've done, spent all you've spent, and continually updated this post just because of your love for this hobby is a thing of character. And I really appreciate that. And the fact you report like you hear, that is what we want. We don't need anymore "professional" reviews. Tell it like it is. Rock on!
@whitecamaross 

You said "think of my thread as another source of information besides the typical lies of magazines that always claim every component is amazing". That is why I love this thread so much. Magazine hyperbole is ridiculous.   
@whitecamaross & @4425 

And to 4425s comment. I haven't heard the DartZeelstereo amp. But I did hear the mono blocks with the new preamp and Evolution Acoustics speakers. The source was a reel-to-reel tape deck playing Lines on My Face off of Frampton Comes Alive. All I can say was wow!!! I heard this at the Los Angeles Audio Show and it was one of three best systems that day. The mono's made such effortless power; they have a power meter on the front and they were making from just a few watts to over five hundred on peaks. It was really glorious. I know this is a different ballpark in terms of cost, but I would assume that the stereo amp would have a similar house sound. I kind of put it out of my mind since they are not in any realm of affordability for me. I can still hear that fine system in my head though.

For reference, I really like ARC with Wilson. And I love all-Mbl systems too.
@whitecamaross 

Rock on Jay. Do it your way. Nearly all of us can handle that.
Been following this thread for some time. Always was glad when there was a new post. So, now that you are done with your amplification quest, I wish you the best in dialing in your system for your own specific needs. Congrats!
@guidocorona 

I agree with Guido. Would be interested if the Shunyata can provide the same depth, detail, and air that direct to your dedicated line does.

I also agree that this thread should be fun. Let's let it be fun and a place where we all talk audio respectfully. It is WCs thread and so we need to let him do it his way. You can PM him with ideas or criticism, but let keep the negative talk out. I think most of us would like it better that way.
@whitecamaross 

"Can’t maintain 2 threads. I prefer only one thread where people can follow my journey." Agreed. I was stoked to see it active and will be following along.
I don't have a dog in this fight. I own TAD Class D amplification.

That said, I've heard both the Luxman M-900u and Dag Momentums many times in the same room. Yes, they are my dealers amps, but as Charles is saying, the Momentums are significantly better than the M-900u, whether with digital or analog. Don't get me wrong, the Luxman stuff is really good and the Momentums are not 3-4 times better, but I don't know anyone who thinks that the Luxman is better. In fact, I know one person who had the Luxman pre/pro combo for a year, maybe two, that moved to the Momentum integrated 2-3 months ago. YMMV.

Also, I've never read or heard that the Luxman M-900u is euphonic. IMHO, it is nowhere near.

WC, I haven't had the chance to hear the M-900u in mono configuration. Could bring it closer, maybe even much closer to the Dag Momentum. Would be interested to hear them in mono.

Finally, it would be nice if the bickering would stop. I'm sure WC would appreciate that. This is HIS show, let's be respectful and thankful he is sharing it with us.
@viber6 

Out of respect for WC, I'd like to keep my adventure out of WCs thread. To answer quickly, I have the M2500 amp. With the matching preamp and E1 speaker, there is good snap and sparkle with excellent tone and texture and a three-dimensional soundstage. If you'd like to know more, you can IM me.
Over my laptop speakers, #1 is more linear. #2 the vocals seem exaggerated. I'd choose #1 easily. My mileage may vary if I could have listened on my rig.
@whitecamaross 

40s to 50s with Toy Matinee playing just now. Usually 50-60db and a good bit louder when no one is home. I just checked and have had a 68db peak while playing Impossible Germany by Wilco at maybe moderate levels.

I just coughed and that was a 79db peak.
@whitecamaross 
I understand you wanting to stay away from the expensive stuff. But a tall speaker that sounds very good is the Alexx. Very high resolution but in a totally different league than DAW or Alexia 2. Also, I've heard the Alexandria XLF a number of times (taller like the Alexx) and it isn't anywhere close to the Alexx.

I replaced my entire system (minus power cords) around a year and a half ago. As I've replaced power cords, added a EtherREGEN, etc, the resolution is so good that I can listen at levels significantly lower than I used to and am equally happy; really just much more happy. @jetter  - it is pretty amazing that this is happening but I really enjoy listening a lot lower than I did with my last system. Maybe my last system just needed a lot of volume to be satisfying. I can say now that I can listen as long as I'm allowed and I never get fatigued. In the past few months I've had many 4+ hours sessions with at least one at 6+ hours. I just get up to eat or hit the restroom cause things just sound so good. Listening in the 50-60s db range with peaks probably low mid 70s. WC, I know you have a highly resolving system. I'm just adding observations of my experiences with my gear in my room.
@speedbump6

Agreed. Wish that he'd take the not so subtle hint.

@whitecamarross

I think, like one other poster said above, you are pointing to system synergy. This is really one of the single most critical elements in a system singing.
@whitecamaross 

Are you still using the Luxman C-900u/M-900u combo? I believe I remember you saying you bought the combo three time? That's very high praise.
@whitecamaross

I like ARC. But I think your better bet is to get the Boulder and try for as much synergy as possible. I’ve heard the Ref 10 but not compared it to the Ref 6.

BTW, I've read this entire thread and am excited when new posts are available. I'm sure there are many just like me.
@whitecamaross 

This has been a very interesting thread. I logon to Audiogon just to read it everyday and I find the observations very interesting for sure. I'd bet many folks have really benefited from it.

One question: how long did you listen to the Black once back in the system? Did it have proper time to settle? I wonder if perhaps it was in the system for a day or two or at least the five hours you played the Ref10/Hegel combo? Don't get me wrong, I love ARC gear and my impressions of Hegel are also very good as well. But I do wonder if the Black system has had time to settle and do its best?

Diggin' on this thread; keep on auditioning and posting!
I've heard the Momentums a number of times and if I recall correctly mostly with the matching Dag Preamp. This to me is a very good setup for sure. I've also heard them with ARC Ref6 and very good as well with Wilson Audio Alexia II with giant REL subs (mostly sounded good but not always, I’m not sure that the system needed a sub at all). Also heard the Momentums with pre from the same line on Sabrina's with Bricasti M1 DAC and it very very good too. I do like D'Agostino gear a lot but it is priced with the upper end gear. It has a very seductive and refined sound.

@whitecamaross 

Is the Black system still powering the Wilson's? Has it got any better or still not as good as the ARC/Hegel combo?
@whitecamaross 

"All I can tell you is that specs quite often (are) just exactly that... specs. You don’t really know how good something sounds until you bring it." This is so very true.
I never turn off my system, except where needed to change wire, etc.

I had a system for around twenty years where the amp/pre were the same for the entire twenty years. Pretty much ran it 24/7. Never a problem for me
@whitecamaross 

FYI - This continues to be of my two favorite threads on the 'Gon. I'm here every day to read whitecamaross' updates. 

I'm very intrigued by the fact that two of the amps that Mr. WC has owned that he loved so much are Class D. For me, I don't care what Class an amp is, I just care about the sound. I would like that said amp runs cool and that it sounds it's best without a two-hour warm up. That being said, I've heard a lot of systems in the last five years, both tube and SS, and the one that has my ear now and will eventually be in the house is powered by Class D. This system just sounds so real without being dry or fatiguing in anyway. Class D done right, as in really any other class of amp, just kills it. Once I work everything out and get the system setup here at home I will disclose more and also discuss my dealer, whom has literally been the most helpful and patient dealer I've ever dealt with.

Lest you think I'm just caught up in a certain class of amplification, I look most to equipment matching/synergy with the speaker you choose to use. Without this, you'll never hear the best a system can do.

Whitecamorss, thanks again for such a great thread. I'll be back tomorrow for more.........
@charles1dad 

"Too be consistent I am a proponent of actually listening to judge. However measurements/specifications can guide one’s selection process and narrow down the chance of an incompatible amp/speaker match." A great summation of specs and actual listening. Charles, thanks for that. We must never forget that the listening is the most important. And it is about what "you" hear and like. I'd think we all buy gear based on the sound we like and of course why would you do it any other way. Great conversation going on here.
@whitecamaross 

"All My amps are dead weight at this point." Then " Looking into a great opportunity for another set of speakers that came to me just now... stay tuned :)". Wow, this thread just moves right along. Can't say it is boring around here!

@charles1dad 

I do find it interesting that Guido says these amps have a long way to go, even now. I've read before he said they need a thousand hours to fully blossom. I do hope WC does give them a long time to speak their best. I wish I could be there to hear the sound, it must be simply sublime. -I have heard the Luxman 900 amp/pre amp combo a few times and just most recently on the full-sized Blades. Very smooth.
@whitecamaross 

Ok, per Guido, "my estimation of M925 breake-in of 1K to 1.5K hours was predicated on the units being new". So if they had a 100 hours, now you have 300-400 hours? Sounds like you have a ways to go but you are loving them, so have some fun.
@whitecamaross 
@charles1dad 

As Charles mentions, "which model"? I'm curious what amp, and are we talking a Gryphon preamp for synergy as well?

Comeon' WC, share what Gryphon(s) are on their way.

Diggin' on the journey.

@charles1dad 

"There's art to putting a system together and most experienced audiophiles/music lovers acknowledge that." Exactly
@whitecamaross

Wow, the equipment is flying off the shelves - apparently the 509X is already gone. I’ve heard the 509X a number of times and it is really good, for what it is. I’ve heard it with TAD Evo 1s and there was nothing unpleasant but the sound stage collapsed compared to the TAD Evolution separates. And that would be expected at such a great price deficit. Don't get me wrong, the 509X is a really good integrated making beautiful sound and so pleasing to the eye.