1. Atma-sphere
Amps that are suitable with 5% of all speaker systems.
2. Merlin speakers
Blah, really boring
3. Synergetic cables
Fat ted is all show and no go
4. Koetsu cartridges
Really?
5. Machina Dynamica
Everything is PT Barnum stupid |
"07-05-14: Twb2
Ayre?? Not my experience! Sound quality, reliability and customer service from Ayre are absolutely superb IMO. All my Ayre gear (and I have a lot) was purchased used, so value is excellent as well. However, I don't like dealing with their dealers."
If you are looking for a good Ayre dealer, try one of these: Audio Connection, Audio Center and Audio Alternative. Audio Connection is my favorite, but the other 2 are also very good. I've done business with all 3 and always had a good experience. |
Ok, so some of you are saying a certain manufacturer's product is the most "overrated." Folks, the problem with the subject matter here is that in general, most audiophiles and enthusiasts mix and match speakers, amplifiers, preamplifiers, cd players, turntables, cables, DACs etc. from a variety of manufacturers. How can you tell if the poor experience that you formulated your "overrated" judgement on is the poor (overrated)performance of a manufacturer's component(s), or because the product did not match up well with the rest of the products (gear)in your system?
If we were talking about an all Ayre system, or an all Levinson system then judgements are more valid. Or, if someone is pairing B&W speakers with the same system that B&W uses to evaluate the speaker's sound, or the audio system that ZU Audio uses to evaluate the sound of their speakers, then judgements like most "overrated" would take on much more validity. But instead, most of us are using completely different mixing and matching of speakers, amps, preamps, cables etc in our homes than the manufacturer that designed and evaluated their product before putting it on the market.
On a practical level, in most cases, having a system all from one manufacturer with the same cables, or having the same system and cables as the one used by the manufacturer for evaluating their products is usually impossible for various reasons. |
The real question isn't "what equipment is overrated?", but "why is it overrated?". If you can get to the "why" of it, you'll have some info that is of real use. |
None of this will ever make sense because this group will never agree on the definition of "overrated" as relates to audio manufacturers, which the OP should have defined as part of his question, in the first place. I found these definitions of "overrated" by the Urban Dictionary to sort of sum up the futility of this thread; A word which recently has been used liberally as a way of discrediting something without having to give a proper justification, most often when someone finds they have a disliking for a popular phenomenom and is resentful of those who embrace it. Often used by anti-trendies. and So due to personal opinion and anyone who hates anything that's well known, no matter how brilliant something is, if it gets a lot of media attention then there's always someone who will think it's overrated. and finally, an example; Person A) "I'm gonna watch my TV..."
Person B) "TV is overrated"
Person A) "I want an Xbox..."
Person B) "Xbox is overrated"
Person A) "Jesus, shutup"
Person B) "Jesus is overrate-"
*punches in face* |
Elizabeth is correct, the only thing the average American hates worse than the truth is reality.
US education from K-12 is essentially one long propaganda fest
to ensure this mindset endures for a lifetime.
Also extended to BA level in majority of colleges. |
I think overrated is when the component-in-question's performance can be had elsewhere for half the price.
Look-and-feel is another issue. |
I'd submit that when a manufacturer rates their gear at a certain level of performance, and the gear does not deliver, then they are over rating it. |
Dweller, I think that "performance at half the price" is only part of the equation in a value rating system. It's in the nature of our free enterprise system that someone is always trying to deliver a better mousetrap for a lower price. Often, they succeed in the beginning. The history of the high end is a long list of companies that offered good sounding products but ultimately failed because they underestimated expenses and couldn't grow their business past a certain threshold. There are so many "high value" audio products that are shoestring operations run by one guy and little more. You bet that business model can initially undercut the pricing of Audio Research, Conrad-Johnson and other established players. Good luck trying to get replacement parts and service ten years from now though. Maybe that doesn't matter to some consumers but it does to others. |
|
Runnin: So you're saying that a manufacturer should buy ad space and say "buy my stuff because it's so ordinary."? |
+1Syntax,Burmester, very disappointing sound quality given their
reputation and praise. It was very hifi and not natural at all. |
|
I have heard Zu, Wilson, and a bank of speakers from Focal and each of these manufacturers are what I call 0.5 to 0.33 brands. That is, they are mid-level competitive against competitors at 1/2 to 1/3 their cost. So... a 4K Focal speaker tends to compete well against $1500 - $2000 speakers but is way over-priced . These three brands are very overrated. |
Any time I read and advertisement or read about a product that starts with the word" Reference" I know it is bull%$##@ |
What about if the word Reference is something other than the first? Is it still BS, or is it credible? |
I would have preferred a more focused question of which manufacturers over-promise and under-deliver, and cite at least two instances of this occuring. |
Plasmatech your more focused question would make for an excellent thread! |
"07-15-14: Plasmatech
I would have preferred a more focused question of which manufacturers over-promise and under-deliver, and cite at least two instances of this occuring."
Its an interresting question, but how do you define over-promise and under-deliver? If you're talking about sound quality, for example, its subjective. I don't see how you can define something like that unless you rate things on an individual basis. |
That would be a good question, except for the fact that only a tiny percentage of the people here have enough experience with the super high-priced stuff to put forth cogent arguments. It's much more fun to just say why you believe the stuff you can't afford isn't as good as claimed. However, now that I think of it, I had an Esoteric X-05 CD/SACD player that I thought was abysmal. Just flat, no depth and absolutely not analog-sounding as the Stereophile review said it was. I've never heard anything higher up in the line, so I can't say the entire brand is overrated, but that box certainly was, IMO. |
Chayro, wouldn't it be great to be there when the reviewers
were listening to the X-05 piece and hear what they were
hearing? Maybe they have no ability to discern SQ? Or, is
lack of synergy and system dependency the overriding factor in
the poor performance of an otherwise quality component that
you heard in your system? The sound quality of mid and high in
components from system to system is mystifying to me. |
|
It could be anything. That's why I don't buy anything anymore without an audition. It's too difficult to put together a system based on reviews or reputation. I bought the X-05 at a great price from a local guy who upgraded to the X-03. It was in mint condition, looked beautiful and I really wanted to love it. Oh well. |
Magico is a definite. I want to know if the reviewers would like them without the advertising dollars. I have a VPI and not a fan of them, either. |
I used to mod Xovers I have so friend thst has Harbeth 30.1
What a joke the whole Xover parts are pathetic the capacitors are maybe $4 each if you are lucky ,not even an air core inductor
This is why they are very limited on output the inductors snd capacitors
Get over saturated. And the cabinet,.reflection city look how wide it is.
If it were not for the midrange material they would not be anything .the tweeter us not seas best by any means.a $$1,000 to build maybe ,for a speaker charged $6500
Thatis really taking it to the consumer !! |
Just navel gazed the posts and one major point still sticks out that has already been highlighted in this blog: " overrated how and/or compared to ?...... " And ..." Thus overrated ..... because why?"
Intuitively any such posts are going to be absent of any empirical terms of reference that I can think of, and default to heavily biased personal value judgements
OK .. Fair enough.... But instead of just casually listing a manufacturer and its piece , let's use a rifle instead of a shotgun and actually frame the opinion under these general terms that boil down to,
- Here's what I heard / looked at,
- Here's what I considered, and
- Here are my conclusions.
Now we can have a meaningful discussion IMO. |
Bose and B&W are probably the two that own more market share than they probably should in an ideal world. |
Strange, nobody has mentioned Sony or Panasonic which I think both make a very wide range of excellent products. |
09-22-14: Geoffkait
Strange, nobody has mentioned Sony or Panasonic which I think both make a very wide range of excellent products It's really contradictive to the subject. Overrated is "higher rated" per given performance. Wide range of excellent products that are indeed excellent can't be considered overrated. |
At this point I'd have to say Ayon and Wilson. And by virtue of Audiolabyrinth's understated claims that Taralabs is the mythical Shanri La, the holy grail of cables which will transform $690 speakers into $35,000 reference tranducers, i'll add Taralabs to the list. |
07-04-14: Harri009
Every Wilson speaker under the Maxx line. + 1! |
Tara Labs used to offer once affordable and reasonably priced products. Then they 'upgraded' and became full of snit. |
It is hard to call low-cost gear overrated, IMO. Nevertheless, there are a couple of names that come to mind here: ASI cables and Grover Huffman cables. Too much hoopla for too little performance.
It is easier to call high-priced gear overrated. A number of items come to mind here: the EMM CDSA SE CD player was a $11,500 total dud. IMO, it simply rode on the wake of the name Ed Meitner. Gabriel Gold cables were a total dud. Some of their prices have since come down to visit us on planet Earth. The AMR DP-777 blew up twice. They had design problems but instead of disclosing this to customers they decided to cover up the fact.
The Berkeley 1 DAC. Never mind what the revered Robert Hartley has to say. I have the feeling he may just be cutting and pasting to save writing time. Like Ted Denney for his Synergistic Research Tesla series cables -- and many other products including the famous Cells. In any case, he needs to start using spell check. He continues to write then in place of than. And he needs to use "increase font size" on his site that continues to use font size 4 -- maybe to prevent folks from reading the fine print. |
Vandersteen Audio-1/2/3 models lack speed and resolution but keep selling? Bryston-Are you buying because of the warranty or do you need an amp for your subwoofer? Esoteric-Can find more natural digital playback for much less. |
Manley jumped their prices a lot all at once a while back.
Are they worth the new prices? They seemed to be bargains for the old. |
Dayglow , I agree with you totally ! |
"10-01-14: Dayglow
Vandersteen Audio-1/2/3 models lack speed and resolution but keep selling?"
Vandersteen is a fairly unique company. Most of the time, people aren't setting them up right. The speakers are capable of very high resolution. I put my Vandersteen Model 2's next to my friends B&W 802d's. After going back and forth, we came to the conclusion that my Model 2's have just as much, if not more detail. I also have a pair of Wilson's in my 2'nd system, and the 2's easily outperform them as well. If anyone is interested, download some owners manuals off Vandersteens web site and read through them. They explain in detail, what's different about their speakers and how to get best sound. |
I do hate to slam the big name manufactures. Please some one else do it and I need a laugh. |
Agree totally zd. To be quite frank I've heard different Vandy set-ups range from abysmal (who would ever consider them) to sublime, they can be real chameleons. Set-up and room conditions are critical. They continue to be big sellers for a reason but will not be suitable for everyone but to me come closer than many, IF set-up correctly. I say they ARE NOT overrated because of potential for money spent. |
I know Vandersteen(1/2/3) owners could care less what I think. The reason I posted was not to bash Vandersteen Audio but to let potential buyers know there are better options at each price point(1150/2400/4500). The 2Ce Signature has the reputation of being a giant killer which IMO is an outdated assessment. I have stated before the Vandersteen 5A(currently carbon) is a great last purchase type speaker, so we know what Vandersteen is capable of. I have not heard the Quatro or Treo speakers so I don't know if there is a "trickle down" effect with these models. Lastly I think Vandersteen needs to update(if they value sound over profit) there entry level offerings to deserve the "giant killer" status. |
Well I'm in deep trouble here, I think the 802D is the most underrated speaker, and the most undeservedly bagged speaker in the world, and I'm astounded on a daily basis just how good the MXR/KXR combination is.
Final comment I found the 2CE to be amazing, and couldn't believe the price, at a time I was enthralled by my CLS2z's.
So in conclusion most of my favourite brands have been listed as overrated!! big big trouble I must be tone deaf and deluded :) |
I can easily put my Aerial 10t against Vandy 5a. I haven't heard 7's yet, but kinda have the same feeling that they won't be upto par for the money. 1c is probably their best model in terms of price per performance, but the rest is total 'rest'. |
|
Something's worth whatever the buyer pays for it, right? And something's worth whatever joy the listener gets out of it.
Are Bose overrated? Not really. For millions of Americans, they represent a comfortable level of fidelity for what they cost. Same for B&W or ML. Most people don't care about tubes or IC's or how fast a speaker is. They want sound that fulfills them.
And like any devoted hobbyists, we're nitpicking through gravel to find the perfect rock.
I think a better question is:
Some underrated audio manufacturers?
Reference 3A
Blue Circle |
|
Hello Ebm. Nice to hear from you dude!! Keep on truckin!! |
AVA............merry-go-round |
Transfiguration Proteus (Dead, Flat, Thin and so far away from the real thing like the distance from Earth to Mars) |
I have always thought that MIT and Transparent cables are overrated. I have tried both in my system and they are very overpriced. I have cables from Clear Day that smoke both those cables and is about 75 percent less. |
U HAVE STIRRED UP A CROSS BETWEEN PANDORAS BOX AND A HORNETS NEST WITH THIS POST.
Personally I flipping hate the single ended flea power with horn speaker brigade.
Likewise to my ears I just do not get Zanden or KSL - I may be in minority here.
Out of interest Syntax - you have a Transfiguration Temper - isn't the Proteus an improvement on that? |
