@kennyc - I agree with your sentiment. I attended the launch of the new Lampizator Horizon DAC in LA in February and reported the results. The purpose was just to provide information regarding the DAC and my impressions of it. The discussion was not productive and somewhat vile due to the affordability of the Horizon. It got so bad I asked the moderator to take the thread down.
Super high-end is not everyone but there is no reason to crap all over people that can afford to buy these products. BTW, I ordered a Horizon but I have no plans to post a member's review on the product on Audiogon.
Regarding DAC's, I have owned the Lumin U-1 Mini, D-2, A-1, X-1, and the Lampi Pacific. I can tell you that each in order had improved performance and SQ. So, good quality DAC does matter and it all depends on what you can afford and want to hear in your system.
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@ronres
Thanks for sharing the video.
Along with other audio components. I also have been tracking what is the best DACs available, then trying to get the best options within my budget. The seemingly top DACs are in the +$100k mark (MSB, Aries Carot, Wadax) and is out of my price range. However, the new TOL Lampi Horizon at $45k sonically plays at their level which seems like a “relatively” sonic bargain. Unfortunately, I’ve noticed that many on this forum seem to resent reports of gear priced out of their budget which makes me hesitant of sharing my component finds and choices. I understand the reluctance of not wanting to hear of desired gear one cannot afford, but in “high-end” audio progress in knowledge and technological achievements march on. I’m of the camp to learning whatever I can then using the info to better my audio chain within my budgetary constraints.
I’ve been closely researching high-end audio DACs to plan my DAC upgrade path as funds allow. I currently have a Denafrips Terminator, and will get upgrade to the Lampi Baltic3 which is a sonic bargain. Eventually my end game may be the Dream DAC, but if the stars align perhaps a Horizon.
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Since Rx8man owns one of the DACs we manufacturer, he has had the opportunity to understand what makes a DAC sound the way it does. The separate power supply is around 25 pounds. The R2R DAC is surrounded by higher quality parts then are in the high priced DACs in the video. Price has nothing to do with sound. If you really want to hear what a reference DAC can offer, just contact me or come to our Listening Room in Northern New Jersey. Bring your DAC over for a comparison.
Happy Listening.
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Not saying my vinyl and CDs are lacking but the streamer takes it even higher. BTW, now using bluos with Quobuz since I have given up on Tidal's MQA. All that to say how this streaming journey has reached such incredible levels with such a reasonable setup and in such short time. Used to be that on this site, analog ruled, but it is evident that the tide is changing. And if you haven't yet tried the digital streaming world, you owe it to yourself to do so asap. I once said I wouldn't and I am a living proof of how wrong I was.
@baylinor Good onya for keeping an open mind in giving streaming a fair shot and that you’re now reaping the considerable benefits of doing so. There’d be many more happy audiophiles out there if they too could manage to get their head outta the sand and give streaming a try. Also, congrats on ditching Tidal and its invasive and intrusive MQA crap and discovering Qobuz. I switched a couple years ago and am so happy I did.
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@baylinor
Just ordered.
6 days from Israel to Texas! Fedex international.
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There a fact to these DAC's no matter how much you spend they can only get so good. Yea there are a lot of details that make one sound good. However the bag is open on the that people that design them all know the same stuff. Ground, Timing, Data recovery, great low noise supplies, a great analog section, flexible butter Worth are Bessel filtering, Up sampling, and correlation or stacking. Paying to much does not get you any more but a weird name.
Get a Sonic Transporter and a Optical Redu you'll be glad you did.
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Owning a custom made tube dac with separate tube regulated power supply, my hearing tastes are in line with Ron's fwiw.
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“spending $30k+ on a DAC that could be matched or surpassed in performance in 5 years by a $2000 DAC”
@soix
That’s $500 a month of pure joy over the next 5 years, hell I’ll jump all over that than freakin wait 5 years for that $2K DAC. Those who can spend $30k today, don’t give a damn about its depreciated value in five years 🤣
If you are worried about depreciation, buy real estate!
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Unless you’ve got FU $$$ and are ok with throwing it out the window, spending $30k+ on a DAC that could be matched or surpassed in performance in 5 years by a $2000 DAC is insane to me. Assuming that timeframe you would’ve spent $6000+ per year to own one of these DACS and then it’s a highly-depreciated audio boat anchor. No thanks. A more mature technology like turntables, yeah I can get more behind that, but in this rapidly evolving era of DAC/electronics technological innovations — no thanks.
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None of those DACs on that list interest me. The only one I would even consider would be the T+A one at their crazy price. They seem to at least have some technical chops behind the research they do and thus maybe able justify the price in my eyes.
SD 3100 HV Reference Streaming DAC (ta-hifi.de)
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Davidten I believe MikeLavigne is also one of the founder of WBF , I might be wrong.
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WBF thread on this offers far more context. Note the highly differential setups.
Ron Resnik, co-owner of WBF (whose video is the one posted in the opening post), goes into much more detail... including his personal preferences.
DAC Audition Impressions What’s Best Forum Thread
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No Esoteric included either.
Re the DCS, the Apex upgrade significantly mitigates the tendency to sterility in the DCS sound so he would have hated the pre-Apex Vivalid!
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The guy on this survey clearly states the cheapest ones reviewed are in the 30k to 50 k range. At 10k you're not even in the discussion lol
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These comparisons just make me laugh. With 10,000 (?) DACs on the market, who can pick a list of 10 and make the claim "these are the best". It's all pie in the sky until they start doing everything in a blind test. And even then I would want some middle of the road equipment thrown into the mix to keep them honest. But that will never happen?
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This should be called, "Most Expensive DAC Survey Ever!"
This survey is just a collection of hi-fi adjectives with all comparisons being to one DAC or another. Plus a collection of what his personal likes in sound are and what sound attributes he values. Why would anyone care?
What is missing is any sense of comparing the sound of each to actual music in real space for fidelity to the original. Seems to me, this is what the high-end should be about.
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A brief synopsis of one man’s opinion, nothing more nothing less. The two notables DAC’s missing from his review are Merging Technologies + player and Abendrot’s Stute & Hengst.
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I would love to have a $10,000 DAC on my system, especially when I listen to what I have. The thing is My Verey old 'Pioneer Elite SACD' with a Burr Brown DAC sounds SO very much cleaner, fuller, and robust than the Built-in DAC in my NAD Receiver. For that reason, I am hesitant at best to spend any amount on an external DAC when You consider that a DAC that is at least 10 years older does so much better of a job considering what I have on hand.
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@soix , personally an Elise that was in loving hands and maintenance...
Lotto tix that counts, an Exige with a Hartley V8...only one issue for that, tho'
I can do without that which doesn't tempt. ;)
YOMV...have a great holiday, J
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@curiousjim
Isn't it interesting how being rich often also makes you better looking?
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Spot on the analysis for those covered, however, some serious contenders were absent, like Ideon, EMM Labs and Ypsilon.
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The Terminator + is my end all dac ,my brother has a $35k DCS Rosinni
and it’s s noticeably better but not as much as you would think maybe 5-10% at best and not even that in some areas , for $6400 a steal I had it in j6 system for 2 days , andI have tried many name brand dacs ,imo betterthen the chord Dave
which has gobs of detail ,even more so but not as smooth sounding .
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So bring those DAC's over to my house and let me hear them with my equipment, otherwise who cares?
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Transfer of money. 99.9% of people don't care.
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Yowza!
If I had the money those DAC’s and the systems to warrant them I’d be rich and good looking! 😁
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6 days from Israel to Texas! Fedex international.
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@baylinor
Hey,
How long did it take from the time you ordered to the time you received the Pardo power supply?
Thanks.
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I didn't bother looking at any of those dacs. From reading the couple of comments, I can see that they are in a stratosphere I have no interest in. What does interest me though, is how my new streaming/dac set up sound. And it is exceptional. This morning listening session completely opened my eyes. I can honestly say that my streaming absolutely sounds better than my CDs and even vinyl now. The easiest way to see my different setups is to look at my system. But to give you a long story short, not counting preamp, amp, speakers and subs, my vinyl setup is worth 200% more money wise than my streamer setup, while my CD setup is worth 33% more than the streamer setup. And I have been working at this streamer setup for only about 3 to 4 months. The first streamer did nothing for me and I returne it. I then moved on to the new Bluesound Node, hooked it up to the Gustard X26 PRO via DH Labs silver sonic UBS cable and bluejeans ethernet cable to a TP-Link wifi extender. A huge help is my wifi signal is always super strong, usually over 800. The latest addition is the Teddy Pardo linear power supply which is specifically designed for the NODE and has perfect instructions to remove the inner power circuit of the NODE to replace it with the guts of the Pardo and connect it to their box. Genius. Pardo power cable is Shunyata venom 14. Well, at first it was a significant improvement but now with over 20 hours on it, it is simply magical. No exaggeration. I listen to all 3 systems this morning and the streaming flat out beat the other two as unbelievable as it may sound. The overall presentation is bigger, wider, clearer and instruments are clearly detailed all over the wall rendering the speakers to disappear. Not saying my vinyl and CDs are lacking but the streamer takes it even higher. BTW, now using bluos with Quobuz since I have given up on Tidal's MQA. All that to say how this streaming journey has reached such incredible levels with such a reasonable setup and in such short time. Used to be that on this site, analog ruled, but it is evident that the tide is changing. And if you haven't yet tried the digital streaming world, you owe it to yourself to do so asap. I once said I wouldn't and I am a living proof of how wrong I was.
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I am guessing fewer than 1% of members here could afford to buy one or would if they could any of those DACs. Imagine what the rest of your system would have to cost to even consider spending that on a DAC..
It just shows how much that little extra margin of performance costs.
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The more important question is whether you would want to own those DACs?
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Nice brief synopsis of DACs I will never own. Think I could live happily ever after with a Terminator + or maybe even a Gustard R26 while having a lightly-used Porsche Cayman or 911 in my garage for the same price as some of these DACs, but I’m kinda silly that way.
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