Magnepan, Ohm, Spatial or ??

Open the first link, then click on right arrow half way down on first picture to see other pics.

Although the Ohms in both those rooms are only a few feet apart, the soundstage extends wall to wall, a good 18-20’ in both cases with players very well located specifically within with most all recordings. Good mono recordings will image with a very lifelike, somewhat dimensional presentation, from dead center of the wall regardless of where along the wall the Ohms are placed. The Ohms do mono recordings better than anything in regards to a lifelike presentation. The bottom portion of my L shaped room extends about 10’ to the left of the bigger Ohms in teh first pic, the F5 series 3 (12" driver, refurbed Ohm F cabinets). The smaller are 100S3 (8" driver) in refurbed Ohm Walsh 2 cabs. Both series 3 drivers are 1 generation older than current X000 line.

I liked the Spatials very much and they made the cut  when I heard them but only a single demo in a hotel room at a show so my exposure is limited.

@rickytickytwo...   I am with you on the open baffle preference.  Ohms are actually baffle-less designs, with the "cans" sitting proud of the cabinet.  Bass frequencies fire into the top of the cabinet and fire out of a vent at the bottom above the plinth.  But most of the sound fires off the back of the cone and from the free air tweeter.

@mapman 
Awesome

Yea the Ohms with the Walsh style wave bending drivers where the sound is emitted from the rear of the driver are kind of a open baffle hybrid design where the cabs come into play primarily for bass delivery.

Pretty sure the design is patented and nobody else does it this way. German Physics uses wave bending omni Walsh drivers but those cover the higher frequencies (which are more directional to start with) not the lows whereas Ohm is the opposite. GPs like most omnis including mbl require a lot of distance to walls to perform but not Ohm because sound is physically attenuated inside the cans in wall facing directions by default. Nobody else does that for you....you need room treatments for similar results close to walls.

Just don’t look inside the cans.......UGLLY!!!! John Strohbeen is the guru who figured out how to do this cost effectively without customers having to witness the resulting mess by hiding it in a very clean looking "can".

They do quite well at delivering a lot of good bass out of a relatively small package and go loud with suitable amp without ever showing any signs of stress, better than most.

Driver and cab size determines bass levels possible and suitability for a particular room size.

@mapman 

I see you like Musical Box.  :-)  Bummed they didn't come to Pittsburgh last year.....

I'm pretty much sold on the Ohms.  But I made arrangements for my wife to listen to the Spatials in MN when she's out there.  Want to do that first.  

Yes I am a big vintage prog rock fan and saw The Musical Box do their simulated 1972 vintage Genesis live show a few years back. They did the entire Foxtrot album start to finish and it was simply awesome.

Then I came home and did a replay with my Ohms.  :)

Can't imagine not liking the Spatial sound.  

WAF between Spatial and Ohm, especially once you get them located properly, is a lot different so that will be interesting.   The Walsh speakers in particular with the newer cabs tend to not draw attention to themselves which some will like and others not as much.

(((@audiosaurusrex Are those rollers on the bottom of the speakers so you can move them out of the way?? THAT IS AWESOME.)))  Placing speakers on rollers or rubber sponges will only blur the sound.It's like taking a picture while driving on a bumpy road or a moving target. try to pound out a horseshoe on an anvil it works try it in the mud and it doesn't.
 Perhaps your speakers are too bright and blurring them is to your preference but it is a band aid as mentioned above you may also want to  check out the latest Vandersteen 2 Sig 3   Best JohnnyR

WAF between Spatial and Ohm, especially once you get them located properly, is a lot different so that will be interesting.  

@mapman 

Wife wants the Magnepans!  

Does she like them almost half of the way into the room where they sound best or close to the wall where out of the way?

Martin Logan makes several large panel electrostatics which provide really excellent  sound.  Some Best Buys have them on display.

@mapman 

Out of the way, of course.....

That's why I ruled them out.  

Get a pair of used Ohm's.  Save the cash, and Ohm's support is damn good.

That is, if you can find a pair to your liking.

I wouldn't mess around with the Maggies if you listen to any rock.  They do what they do quite well.   But that is just me.

Ha right well if any consolation my wife likes speakers out of the way and no wires showing.

LOL!

That "in the middle of the room" stuff about Maggies is way exaggerated.

mapman, thanks for the 'house tour'..*S*  I've been wondering what/where/how you've been set up, knowing you're an Ohm fan....

soundchasr, my spouse likes our SMGa Maggies too....half-way into the room is a non-starter, but for the sake of martial bliss I've a devious plan.  Some will cringe, but....'X' for Y...;)

The rest of my thoughts on Walsh speakers is known to most, so I'll just hold my tongue on that. *S*  One can do as well, but will spend more to do so...imho....

Happy listening, soundchasr...👍...whichever way you go....

@asvjerry what are your thoughts on Ohm? 

I bought my Magnepans circa 1986 from a shop called Audition in Birmingham AL.


That shop was owned by no other than Jim Smith who literally wrote the book on speaker setup and was Mr Magnepan at the time (Mr. Avant-garde more recently).
Jim himself may have demoed and sold them to me. Not sure about that.


That was the only time I walked in a shop and bought speakers immediately when hearing. The sound was that good.
The speakers were located almost dead center of the listening room.


I’ve been to other Maggie dealers since and the setup is typically just a few feet out from the wall but they never sounded as good as that day in Alabama again to me.


I tried hard to reproduce in my room at home but never quite achieved the Jim Smith magic.

mapman, DC in the typical room usually has zero SAF...*L*  Unless the spouse is an audiofilly or one is single...;)  But since Maggies' are dipoles, I'll bet they sounded great....

soundchasr, honestly, Ohms are a terrific commercial omni speaker line.  Something for every room size, nearly every budget, and their trial policy allows one to 'test for fit and taste'.  I have recommended them in the past.  Being a dipole & omni type, I have my own favs as most do.

Give 'em a go...they have their own preferences as to placement.  But with patience and a bit of 'push 'n poke around' you'll likely be pleased.  Some have commented that they pair well with a sub, but that's up to ones' urges for bass on tap....;)

Personally, I don't own a pair.  As a young jerk about town, I happened to hear a pair of the original Ohm type F speakers in the early '70's.  I've heard nothing since that has struck me as comparable.  I have some technical and design 'issues' with the current Ohms, but that's just my problems. *L*

For the past few years, I've been working on DIY'ing a Walsh speaker with some success.  I listen daily to a 'bookshelf' 2 way version, used as monitors for my 'puter.  A small sub beneath my desk provides the 'bottom' from about 150hz.  Not perfect, but they do work....and imho, rather well.

There's a free-standing pair of a similar nature, with a larger sub as well.  These undergo 'alterations' as I waste my limited spare time improving them.  A set of 4 are in the works; two to receive alum. cones, and two with titanium cones.

All 4 will receive existing Walsh tweeters.

The original Ohm patent has expired....quite a while ago...

As mapman pointed out, looking under the 'can' in an Ohm will surprise.

Imho.....disappointing.....but that's just me being 'technical' about a Walsh. *S*  'Purism' has it's price....

But that doesn't stop them from being a great speaker....and you asked *S*. 

Thanks @asvjerry do you have any you recommend in my price range? Although I’ve been leaning toward Ohm and Spatial I’m far from making up my mind. I’m still trying to figure out how to demo some of these including Wharfedale and Vandersteen. Everyone has been so helpful and there are so many choices! 

Jerry are you talking about the original Walsh driver patent Expiring (I’m assuming there was one) or the newer one for the “Walsh Style” CLS design that JS and Ohm have used since the early 80s?

I know there are other Walsh drivers in the original mold like GP DDD driver. I don’t think they could have done that if an original Walsh driver patent were in effect.

The original Ohm A and F Walsh speakers sounded great but the single driver full range design was brittle and not suited for the masses. Hence the CLS approach or DDD approach which only covers higher frequencies.

I’ve always found the OHM CLS design to be virtually indestructable. I’ve put mine through a lot of abuse over the years and nary an issue. They just get louder more dynamic and clear the more juice you throw at them so JS nailed that flaw with the original design.

Dale Harder is the guy who claims to have solved a lot of the original Walsh driver issues with his newer designs but don’t hear much about those. Would love to hear them though. Hoping he does CAF sometime.

John Strohbeen at Ohm pays a lot of attention to getting that certain sound he is looking for (his favorite seats in Carnegie Hall) but keeping costs minimal to achieve it. IMHO. He could care less about “high end”, only about getting better sound to more people.

I’ve been to Carnegie Hall and felt quite at home there in regards to what I heard. 🏅

I, too, had a set of Ohm Fs that I purchased in 1975 or so. I've never heard anything since that came close to throwing a magical, ethereal, 3-D sonic image that just floated in space. I regretted selling them almost immediately.

That said, I really like my Ohm 1000s. For $2K, there is nothing else that I would own.

Just wanted to 'type in' for the nanosec....busy @ the moment, but I'll ramble @ length later....

Yes, there's a lot to cover here...Cheers, Jerry *S*

@audioconnection 
so my Spatial M3 Sapphires that some posters asked about are not on rollers. They are IsoAcoustic Gaia Footers that couple the speakers to the hardwood floor. Amazing Results using them. I was a Vandersteen owner for 30 years and thought I would miss their warmer sound. The Spatials give me more of everything plain and simple

soundchasr, that there is so many choices and options is either paradise or hell. *G*  That does give rise to the 'spirited discussions' in these forums  I've listened to many over my years; few of the current ones, next to none of the vaunted 'phile megabuck selections.
I quit the audio stairway to heaven some years back.  It was becoming too expensive of a habit to maintain...geoffkait comment elsewhere that it has all the elements of a drug addiction, so one does need to keep ones'  perspective in hand. ;)

Anyway....keep your conscience and wallet in mind...unless you fall in love.  Then you're doomed and on your own. *L*

mapman, Yes....there is/was a patent on the original Ohm/Walsh drivers:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3424873

I'm basing what I do on this, the 75 deg. cone slope, but reducing the size of the 'main cone'.  There is a point where the cone shifts from a radial radiation pattern to a pistonic motion to create your major bass fq.  

Those get handed off to a sub, both physically and via xover.
In this case, actively.

The same goes for the higher fq.  Where the CLS uses its' 'Tufflex Transmission Block', I opt to actively xover to another smaller Walsh directly above the main cone.

This cone is modeled after the Infinity 'ice cream cone' driver, of which I owned a pair of the tower version.  It was basically a 'super tweeter'; my biggest issue was that it was 'upside down', best enjoyed sitting on the floor....😏

Actually luck to have an extended series of conversations with one who actually engaged in building the prototypes on (you guessed it) a kitchen table....  I'm lucky to have a more 'refined' place for my efforts...

By having the cones vertically aligned, I get to dodge phase and time distortion.  And since I literally 'tri-amp' and have an active crossover (Behringer DCX2496) that can do almost anything I'd care to throw at them.

Some of us have rather unique obsessions....;)

Dale Harder opined that my cones were too heavy, which I readily agreed to.   The originals were 5 mil litho aluminum, which I got a sleeve of 100 sheets gratis from a friend 2 decades ago.  Since I've moved on to 2 mil alum and titanium.  The tweets are 1 mil alum, and a PIA to form; look at it hard, and it creases...

Dale ( http://www.hhr-exoticspeakers.com/HHRhome.htm  ) does the closest thing to the original Ohms that I (and likely anyone else) does...

The prices are what I would call reasonable for owning any of his units.
His 'normal gig' is owning a company that (I believe) makes laser equipment....HHR ES is his labor of love, and it shows. *S*

I've never had the chance to hear them.  He 'does' shows occasionally, but likely only those that happen to be nearby.

Imho, the original Ohms suffered from being 'ahead of their era' in terms of the available adhesives and material tech and application.  Dale appears to have managed to solve that.

The single driver conundrum is a hard nut to crack, even with direct radiator drivers.  With an omni, the stakes grow higher...

JS would probably be the first to agree with that.  He (and Ohm) have arrived at a reasonable and rational compromise that works, and does so at a series of price points vs. unit sizes and capabilities.

I used to own a pair of ESS AMT1c, the largest speaker pair I've owned.
Like many who note that they'd wished to still own 'X', I'm part of that crowd too. *S*  And the Kenwood LO7 mono amps that drove them.
At that time, I began applying room eq with an Audio Control eq that had a calibrated mic.

That was 3 decades ago.....time flies...

I'm just striving to have perfection with a smaller footprint, and a SAF of 9/10....literally, a stark column.

Think lipstick, writ large.

BTW...when there's 4 of them, in a 'surround' arrangement....immersion is easy, even in 2ch.  Loud is good...each main cone is eq to a 10"+  driver.  Big issue was cooking the voice coils...

"Ah, the stench of a cooked former...." (*sigh*  Back to the workbench...)

I haven't bothered with Dolby anything....yet. ;)

Enough....at this point I've certainly cemented my 'outlier status'.  And I've runneth off at the keys yet again....*L*

Cheers, Jerry
Keep the faith and Play Loud

There is a new version of the vandy 2ce Sig ii avail so may be able to get a very good deal on the existing version - your room doesn’t call for the three, 

PS monitors on stands not the worst idea either 
lots options there including the vandy w the Concentric CT tweeter, Falcons etc 

The Larsen 6.2 is a speaker that gives you all of the things you want+ other attributes that you don’t get from any other speaker in the market.

@soundchasr
I heard the Spatial Sapphire M3s and was amazed with the sound quality for a speaker that costs under $5k.  I know it's a bit higher than your budget but you also won't need an amp with lots of power as you might need with the Maggie 1.7s.  You may also find that you don't need a sub-woofer with the Spatials.

@asvjerry  "Dale Harder opined that my cones were too heavy, which I readily agreed to.  The originals were 5 mil litho aluminum, which I got a sleeve of 100 sheets gratis from a friend 2 decades ago. Since I've moved on to 2 mil alum and titanium. The tweets are 1 mil alum, and a PIA to form; look at it hard, and it creases...

Dale ( http://www.hhr-exoticspeakers.com/HHRhome.htm  ) does the closest thing to the original Ohms that I (and likely anyone else) does...

The prices are what I would call reasonable for owning any of his units.
His 'normal gig' is owning a company that (I believe) makes laser equipment....HHR ES is his labor of love, and it shows. *S*

I've never had the chance to hear them. He 'does' shows occasionally, but likely only those that happen to be nearby."

I sometimes think if everyone heard Dale Harder's Ohm F reproductions, this forum wouldnt exist. Everyone would just own them. My good friend has a pair of his TLS-1's. Just truly remakable instruments. 

@bigman 

Those Larsens are .... funny looking. :-) Interesting though. Time to do more research. 

I think I'm going into the analysis paralysis stage.  

I see another vote for Vandersteen...

This would be so much easier if we could just demo the things! 

I gave my son a pair of Magnepan MMG's which he uses in a small room in his apartment in NYC.  They sound fine.  Go with the Maggies.  

I owned maggie 1.7i's and went to Spatial X5's.  That AMT driver in the X series is phenomenal.  And Maggies are a pain to drive.  I will tell you this....I haven't owned a box speaker in 30 years.

I have a pair of magnepan 3.5r in room 13'x17' and they sound amazing. Very open sound with nice deep bass. I'm using a Krell FPB-600.

I've owned Spatial M4 Turbos, Ohm 2000s, and Vandersteen 1Cis over the years. I loved the Spatials – amazing soundstage depth and ease – but they had a relatively small sweet spot and really needed some air around them to sound their best...I can't speak to the newer Spatial models and what they have done with their new drivers that might ameliorate those "issues." The Ohms provide wonderful, room-filling sound, but IMO they beg to be opened up volume-wise...probably not an issue for you, but it was for me in an NYC apartment (which is why I replaced them with the Spatials, which do great at low volume). The Vandys may have been my favorite of the bunch...zero listening fatigue, spacious sound, surprising bass extension...they just sound "right" – at least when they were paired with a Belles Aria integrated (can't speak to other combos). They just sound meaty and solid to my ears. They're not as fussy as either of the other two re: placement, and are easier to drive than the Ohms. They'll leave some room for your Dane, too. ;) 

soundchasr, paralysis? Nah, no way. This is fun! Right?

Remember, the goal is to find THE ONE, the "perfect" speaker. All the others are NOT THE ONE. If you fail, you will have misery forever - or until starting the process again. Hehehehe…. ;)

(reminiscing, I recall all the wasted energy and effort to isolate the One. Ridiculous, now in retrospect.)

I should offer, in sincerity, that if you have a question regarding any of the speakers I have reviewed for Dagogo.com, feel free to ask. 

 I had 3.5rs and when I would play dynamic hard rock, I’d blow a fuse every time. I also blew two different tweeters with the fuses in place. After the second tweeter replacement it was time to move on. Very good sounding speakers, but not much midbass punch and severely lacking dynamics. I’m sure Maggies have gotten better since then.

Truth be told, I liked my 1.6s with modified xovers better than the bigger boys.

Oz

Any love here for the Wharfedale 4.4?

A friend of mine had the Wharfedale Jade 7 tower speaker a few years ago. The only way I could describe the sound is "odd". Music never seemed right coming out of that speaker, almost a phasey quality. He didn't keep them long.

Oz

I feel like I need to sh*t or get off the pot, as they say. Right now here’s where I am (and this could change any minute...):

>Spatial M5 Sapphire
- no way for me to demo yet, don’t know about return policy - they never responded. Lots of good feedback about them.

>Vandersteen Model 2Ce Signature III
-Can order from Music Direct and they have a pretty liberal return policy. Sounds (no pun) like a very popular speaker with a lot of people.

>Ohm Walsh 2000
-4-5 month wait time with decent return period Great feedback and looks good on paper.

I have never owned a Vandersteen speaker but I am very familiar with them. Way back an old customer/friend of mine opened a small audio outlet and stocked the Vandy range, his biggest sellers. He often called me to deliver and install speakers he sold so I got to hear and compare many. He also stocked Martin Logan, Eggleston Works and Vivid (which are built in South Africa where I was born and lived most of my life) Vivid are great but their entry level is in a higher price bracket than the entry level Vandies.

The Vandersteen model 1 or 2 are outstanding value. They are open and easy, they image well and also able to crank if provided with ample clean power, though will also perform with a push-pull valve amp. Just lovely with a pair of Quicksilver monos.

Some of the speakers that were traded in were 2 or 3 times the price of the Vandies that replaced them.

If I didn't design and build speakers I would definitely consider a pair for myself. So very highly recommended.

Many Spatial threads over on AudioCircle, where Spatial is a significant presence.  They definitely have some kind of try-at-home deal.

I will add that my Spatial X3s are some of the best speakers I have heard in my home or anywhere else for that matter. I don't have any experience with any of the other spatial models, so I can't speak to that. But if either of the Sapphires are close to what I hear, you should really strongly consider them.

Oz

@soundchasr - The Larsens may be "funny looking" but they have some advantages:
1- they can (have to be) placed right against the wall so placement issues are n/a
2- they have high WAF. I had Larsen 4s, 6s, and 8s in the living room at various times. My wife said they looked like plant stands (a good thing)

Downside: they are not really efficient enough for tubes, unless you use largish PP amps.

I'm a former Larsen dealer and John Larsen is a great guy, interested in good sound and high value for the money. Even though I my preference is for Shahinian Obelisks in my room and with my music I would own a pair of Larsens again in a heartbeat.

I'd just like to thank everyone on this thread for their informative contributions. Ohmm Walsh were unknown to me before this.

I have a love of dipoles and recently made inquiries about buying Spatial speakers in the UK, regrettably there's no distribution here as of last time i checked.
Previously I've owned Alon OB speakers, and still have a modded pair of Alon IV's as backups to my Focals. My only reservation about my Stellas is their comparitive uni-directionality,  but they do have far better power handling and therefore room-filling presence than any OB speaker I've owned or heard so far. But i am certain my next speakers will be dipoles or omni directional. 
Currently I'm very intruiged by the new Bayz Audio Counterpoint and Courante

3 total different things 
  one sticks out from back wall and likes Jazz more so then rock.  two , a speaker that works for rock and jazz but needs to be away from back wall  3 feet.  Three , one can be placed up against a wall 

"...analysis paralysis...."  *L*  Considering your stated options, not a big surprise there. ;)  Speakers (especially) can be like a 'step down' from a spouse/SO....you're going to have to like with them for an extended period of time, and you'd prefer for it to be 'pleasant'...at least. *G*

Summer is the typ time for vacations, large or small.  You might consider a road trip or 2....what my SO & I like to call 'overnight speed tours'. Enjoy what the locale has to offer, as well as a demo date.  Cue up for a pair of Ohms in the meanwhile, and make them the 'last stop' that you don't have to go to...

Unfortunately, speakers aren't like socks.  But, on the other hand, if you knew Exactly what you wanted, you'd be there already. ;)

There's already too many 'tales of woe' over selections made in haste.

Have a pleasant weekend anyway....;)

@twoch  Which one is which?

3 total different things
  one sticks out from back wall and likes Jazz more so then rock. two , a speaker that works for rock and jazz but needs to be away from back wall 3 feet. Three , one can be placed up against a wall

"I feel like I need to sh*t or get off the pot, as they say. Right now here’s where I am (and this could change any minute...): "

I suggest you have a really long hemorrhoid inducing BM.  Don't make a decision out of impatience. 

Here's a question.  Can you get rid of that big black thing??  (the chair, not the nice dog)