Magnepan, Ohm, Spatial or ??

I have Magnepan .7 now; previously had 1.6. For my taste they handily beat any box speaker in their price range. What I discovered after farting around with them for years is that a near field listening position makes them sound a bit dull. I've treated my room fairly well and so far the .7 whips the 1.6 on everything except treble extension. I also lust after the 3.7

@helomech 

I also had the Spatial M5 Sapphire for a few weeks and couldn’t stand them. They had none of the magic that the Vandy’s have. AND the speakers were damaged in shipping returning them to Spatial and Clayton put me on the hook for the costs. If it wasn't for the buyer protections on my Citibank credit card I would have been out the $2300 or whatever the costs were. Buyer beware.....

"Strange. I had quite the opposite experience with Clayton and Spatial. While I ultimately didn't keep the speakers due to room constraints I had at the time, the transactions were smooth and painless. "

My experience was also wonderful. Right up to the point when the speakers returned back to him damaged. He remained cordial and civil but seemed quite ok with me being out $2950. 

I don't wish to derail this thread. If you want to discuss further please DM me. 

Dutchydog,

I understand that these speakers of yours had a nice “base“ to sit upon, but how did they reproduce bass?

One more thing, punctuation can be your friend if you let it......

@dutchydog - 
But if they were the best speakers you ever heard what happened? :-) 

 I used to own a pair I thought that they were the greatest speakers I have ever heard the base was unbelievable try the ohms either the two or three and if you don't like them send them back they have a 120 day trial.

Thanks @mapman 

Can't vouch for seller but there is seemingly nice pair of white Spatial M4 just up for sale here today for a very reasonable price.   I was half tempted....would be fully if I needed another pair of speakers.

Thanks @helomech.

I also had the Spatial M5 Sapphire for a few weeks and couldn’t stand them. They had none of the magic that the Vandy’s have. AND the speakers were damaged in shipping returning them to Spatial and Clayton put me on the hook for the costs. If it wasn't for the buyer protections on my Citibank credit card I would have been out the $2300 or whatever the costs were. Buyer beware.....

Strange. I had quite the opposite experience with Clayton and Spatial. While I ultimately didn't keep the speakers due to room constraints I had at the time, the transactions were smooth and painless. 

To the OP, 

Having owned the Spatial M4 Turbos and M4 Triode Masters, Magnepan 1.7is and .7s, Vandy 2Ce Sig IIs and 1Cis, my bet is the M5 Sapphires would be the best performance value in your space. Of all the speakers I listed, the Vandy 2CE sigs were the most disappointing. I couldn't get them to sound good and my 44-year- old Large Advents outperformed them in many regards. I still own the .7s which I prefer to the 1.7is. The .7s have a rare and addictive musicality but are not as dynamic as Spatials and obviously less efficient. 

If the M5 Sapphires are indeed an improvement over the M4 Triode Masters, they'll outperform most of the aforementioned speakers in three main respects: bass texture, detail, and high frequency distortion. The 2CE Sigs don't hold a candle in those areas. The Maggies can manage much of the bass texture but lack the resolution of the Spatials. 

A comment about Ohms v. Magnapans. Mapman describes this well -- the Ohms present a wonderful image regardless of the listener' position in front of the speakers, even in "difficult" or asymmetrical rooms.

I contrast that to the Maggies (I owned a pair of 1.6QRs) which work great IF the room is right. I loved them at my prior house which had a larger, symmetrical room with plenty of room to have the Maggies out from the walls. In the current house, they were a nightmare and quickly got sold.

Take that experience into consideration when choosing speakers. Some makes are far more forgiving than others of the room they are in.

Jerry,

Yes, everything sounds better with a Lava Lamp.

Those are classic Boston A40s along the side wall, one under chess table. I am original owner and refoamed a couple years back. Great little speakers! I use them for sound off wall mounted TV above the rack. Driven by a $80 Fosi Class D bluetooth integrated amp about the size of a pack of cigarettes. Sound is very good! That is my third standalone system that is mostly for 2 channel A/V but still pretty competent with music.

I don’t do surround sound. Too much hassle and I am mostly a music guy.

Yes and an inversion table. Ohm’s image like champs to the side and upside down. :)

You will notice neither of my two most common listening spots are dead center in front of the Ohms. Not needed. Imaging and soundstage is coherent and tonality balanced anywhere in the room in front of the speakers.

THe blue chair is my preferred listening location. SOundstage there extends a good 20’ left to right and narrows as you move left and loose exposure to the area to the left of the speakers. That is the "coherent" part of the Ohm CLS driver at play.

Most interesting of all (at least to me): with mono recordings the central image is tightly focused in the middle of the rear wall to the left of the left Ohm, just left of the sliding door. REcordings sound like the band is set up right around the middle with ambience similar to what you would hear in a small jazz club, like The Village Vanguard (my room is smaller but similar shaped). I’ve actually been there and compared.    Mono recordings are another particular strength of the Ohms.   So many I enjoy now that never could prior.

Could never get the old Magnepans to work well in this room when we moved in. Basement of our old townhouse which was just a wider and bigger rectangle was easier, but I always missed being able to feel as well as hear the music with planars.

Absolutely look at the Larsen 6.2 model and also the 4.2. Both sound fantastic and are easy to place, right up against the wall. They are also light and made with high quality veneer cabinets. The only possible objection is that they are rather odd looking. I love my 6.2s. 

*stage whisper*

I suspect the lava lamp has some discrete influence on room acoustics....they keep showing up in audiophile installations....

What looks like a small sub under the chess table may have an 'ouija board effect' on the chess pieces, since the 'other player' is a wall panel....

That...and the sudden appearance of what seems 'an exercise device'....perhaps an 'exorcism attenuator', to control room 'funda-mentals'.... 

*'normal voicing*

I guess the lounge chair on the left 'stands in' for an acoustic panel, given the 'open area' to the adjacent room...

*looking innocent, gazing @ my shoes....*

;)

Yes. 

Ah.  And you could notice a difference when you put them up?

Link no good

@mapman pics would be awesome. 

Here is links to my reviews of my Ohms I did here years back when I got them FWIW:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-ohm-acoustics-ohm-walsh-100-series-3-speaker

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-ohm-acoustics-walsh-5-series-3-speaker

@bigslacker, Yup.  Selective cell padding, to restrain random rogue reflections 'n resonances...

The 4 R's...(3R)+nR, formula-ishly....'the bane of audio appreciation' or something like that...*G*

Regarding room treatments, I would only spend effort on that after all else is dialed in and only as an option.

If you find the bass to be a bit much or not articulate or obscuring the midrange, do try the isolating pads under the Ohms.

In my L shaped room where I typically sit and listen at one or two locations 12’ or so back in the long section of the L, I did add 3’X3’ decorative absorption panels (also Auralex off Amazon I think, very clean looking, wife has never said a word) at the primary reflection points on the side wall. That helped to reduce and focus the soundstage a bit by reducing strongest sidewall reflections. VEry inexpensive and easy to try if desired. I can post pics if desired. My right speaker in particular is less than 3’ from the side wall).

By primary reflection point, I mean the location on the side wall where reflected sound would be directed at my primary listening position (with Ohms you might listen from most anywhere in your room and sound should remain coherent and soundstage in place, only from different perspectives).

That is the extent of room treatments for me. I strive to setup my stuff to best use the room at hand, not try and fight it. Like yours, none of my rooms are purely devoted to audio so you have to take a somewhat more practical approach with room acoustics.

Sorry haven't read the whole thread, but don't forget about room treatment. The best speaker in a bad (acoustic-wise) room, won't sound their best. Best of Luck.

3 dogs!  *L*  I guess one is either 'camera shy' or doesn't want it's 'image' distributed without a 'press release'....;)

Our Sunny is useless as a portable diffuser, prefers to be 'under' furniture.....or underfoot....

Agree with maps, hold off on a sub.  Placement and rotation will be the primary project...inches and angles....

Pet positions are up to them, as usual....*L*

There is switch behind the binding post cup which is set to neutral. I guess if a little more bass is desired you can move it to + a little less - . If more bass is wanted then try a sub. 

I’m guessing because that looks like a pretty lively room with wood floors so better to not put something too big in there.

You can always add bass but not take it away very easily though isolating from the floor can help make more bass less intrusive.

You do not need big Ohms for good bass in most cases but you might want to add subs in some rooms  if shooting for the lowest octave with smaller ones. Especially with a tube amp driving them.

I wouldn't worry about subs until I heard the speakers. I was wondering why the 1000's were suggested when your room measurements are 1976 cu ft which is above the top end rating on those? 

Ohm Walsh actually need less distance to walls than many others.  They are specifically designed for that by default. 

They will do a wall to wall sound stage normally so giving them room to breathe does have benefit in that sense.

I should have plenty of room, don't you think?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TBakr2TnzCuo4ZH16

@martykl 
Do you find the subs are necessary with the Ohms? Or just a preference?  Wondering if I should be looking at subs.

Ohms are very special speakers, IF you can give them the breathing space they need. If not, I’d go with a good electrostatic or panel speaker

 You won't be any better off with a panel speaker. They need as much or more breathing room than most others.

Oz

@asvjerry three dogs. Two Danes and one Mastiff. They absorb a lot of sound... and food.

Talked to Richard Vandersteen last night. He was not helpful - told me to get the Treo CT. LOL.

My wife couldn’t get to Anticables this week to see the Spatials so going to try again in 2 weeks.

Ordered the Ohm 1000s.  Three month turnaround according to John.  He's sending color samples.  

The placement of a speaker is critical to its sound. The idea is not to equalize or change the characteristics of the speaker by placing it in different positions,but to get the speaker to interact as little as possible with the room.
The Larsens speakers where designed in a real house in a real room.
You should take advantage of their risk free trial period.
For more info Drvinyl.net or Audioskies

My original Ohm Walsh 2s don't need any breathing space but I give it to them. Panels? They need a lot of room away from walls. Just my experience.

off-topic:

Dog #2 is a brindle! *VBS*  Ours is a Plott/Pitt mix, smart and loves everyone.  Loves anything edible more...;)

Happy to see the Ohms are still in contention....

Ohms are very special speakers, IF you can give them the breathing space they need. If not, I’d go with a good electrostatic or panel speaker 

A pair of 12” Rhythmik subs with Audyssey DRC

room corrected subs

@martykl What subs? 

Auralex subdude pads

Oh good. More stuff to buy.  :-) 
Looks like a good idea.  

I interchange Maggies and Ohms with room corrected subs. The presentation is just different.  With some material I prefer the Maggies, but for most it’s Ohm.   The biggest difference  (to my ear) is the weight and body that the Ohms deliver.  On massed voices (for example), the Ohms are dramatically more realistic sounding (again MHO)

On upper levels I put my ohm 100s on Auralex subdude pads to tame the bass compared to foundation level. 
Isolation from suspended plywood floors is almost always a good idea IMHO. 

I've got wood floors.  If the 1000's don't work I assume I could just get the 2000s.

The question is whether the 2Ce's are too big for the room......

John is great and knows his speakers.  I tend to think he sizes "one" down.  BUT I like bass a bit (not crazy, but I do like it).

Also, if you are in a basement, or on a concrete floor that can really change the bass response.  I have speakers that if they are on my second or third floor - almost boomy.  In my finished basement... tight, punchy bass.  

Not sure I would be afraid of the 2000's... 

What size room?

I have a set of Ohm 1000s and love 'em. No problem with bass or volume in my setting.

JS is the expert but in lieu of his calculator I was thinking no larger than 1000s in there.


Another cool thing about Ohm Walsh is that room size determines how big and how much. They all sound similar set up well.

Just talked to John at Ohm.  He really thinks I need to consider the Walsh 1000 and that the 2000s would be too much.  I'll take his word for it.  Think I'm going to order them tomorrow .....and possibly a few others....

If I could figure how to get them here all at the same time, I'd probably do it.  Only way to really compare them.

All 3 are good. 
Get a pair of each!  🤑

My wife tried to meet up with Paul at Anticable today (as she's in MN for a couple days) to listen to M3s but it didn’t work out. Trying again tomorrow.