Magnepan, Ohm, Spatial or ??

Can't vouch for seller but there is seemingly nice pair of white Spatial M4 just up for sale here today for a very reasonable price.   I was half tempted....would be fully if I needed another pair of speakers.

Jerry,

Yes, everything sounds better with a Lava Lamp.

Those are classic Boston A40s along the side wall, one under chess table. I am original owner and refoamed a couple years back. Great little speakers! I use them for sound off wall mounted TV above the rack. Driven by a $80 Fosi Class D bluetooth integrated amp about the size of a pack of cigarettes. Sound is very good! That is my third standalone system that is mostly for 2 channel A/V but still pretty competent with music.

I don’t do surround sound. Too much hassle and I am mostly a music guy.

Yes and an inversion table. Ohm’s image like champs to the side and upside down. :)

You will notice neither of my two most common listening spots are dead center in front of the Ohms. Not needed. Imaging and soundstage is coherent and tonality balanced anywhere in the room in front of the speakers.

THe blue chair is my preferred listening location. SOundstage there extends a good 20’ left to right and narrows as you move left and loose exposure to the area to the left of the speakers. That is the "coherent" part of the Ohm CLS driver at play.

Most interesting of all (at least to me): with mono recordings the central image is tightly focused in the middle of the rear wall to the left of the left Ohm, just left of the sliding door. REcordings sound like the band is set up right around the middle with ambience similar to what you would hear in a small jazz club, like The Village Vanguard (my room is smaller but similar shaped). I’ve actually been there and compared.    Mono recordings are another particular strength of the Ohms.   So many I enjoy now that never could prior.

Could never get the old Magnepans to work well in this room when we moved in. Basement of our old townhouse which was just a wider and bigger rectangle was easier, but I always missed being able to feel as well as hear the music with planars.

Yes. 

Here is links to my reviews of my Ohms I did here years back when I got them FWIW:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-ohm-acoustics-ohm-walsh-100-series-3-speaker

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-ohm-acoustics-walsh-5-series-3-speaker

Regarding room treatments, I would only spend effort on that after all else is dialed in and only as an option.

If you find the bass to be a bit much or not articulate or obscuring the midrange, do try the isolating pads under the Ohms.

In my L shaped room where I typically sit and listen at one or two locations 12’ or so back in the long section of the L, I did add 3’X3’ decorative absorption panels (also Auralex off Amazon I think, very clean looking, wife has never said a word) at the primary reflection points on the side wall. That helped to reduce and focus the soundstage a bit by reducing strongest sidewall reflections. VEry inexpensive and easy to try if desired. I can post pics if desired. My right speaker in particular is less than 3’ from the side wall).

By primary reflection point, I mean the location on the side wall where reflected sound would be directed at my primary listening position (with Ohms you might listen from most anywhere in your room and sound should remain coherent and soundstage in place, only from different perspectives).

That is the extent of room treatments for me. I strive to setup my stuff to best use the room at hand, not try and fight it. Like yours, none of my rooms are purely devoted to audio so you have to take a somewhat more practical approach with room acoustics.

I’m guessing because that looks like a pretty lively room with wood floors so better to not put something too big in there.

You can always add bass but not take it away very easily though isolating from the floor can help make more bass less intrusive.

You do not need big Ohms for good bass in most cases but you might want to add subs in some rooms  if shooting for the lowest octave with smaller ones. Especially with a tube amp driving them.

Ohm Walsh actually need less distance to walls than many others.  They are specifically designed for that by default. 

They will do a wall to wall sound stage normally so giving them room to breathe does have benefit in that sense.

On upper levels I put my ohm 100s on Auralex subdude pads to tame the bass compared to foundation level. 
Isolation from suspended plywood floors is almost always a good idea IMHO. 

JS is the expert but in lieu of his calculator I was thinking no larger than 1000s in there.


Another cool thing about Ohm Walsh is that room size determines how big and how much. They all sound similar set up well.

All 3 are good. 
Get a pair of each!  🤑

Yeah I know waiting is no fun.

Microwalsh do come up used on occasion if you keep an eye out.   They are small and easy to ship so there is maybe that.  1000s or older 100s are just a tad larger.

Will the new speakers have to be in the same corner location?


Corner placement like that provides a big bass boost so keep that in mind.

Also early reflections work against soundstage and imaging when speakers are very close to walls.

So you have a double whammy with the current speaker placement

Often when placement options are constrained, less can be be more.

In that room, with very close to corner placement, in the Ohm Line, I would keep it small, along the lines of Microwalsh. If needed add a sub later. That gives you some flexibility in adjusting the bass levels.

Neither Ohms, Vandys, Maggies or Spatial are designed to go directly in corners. Other more conventional and more forward firing directional designs would frankly work better. Best thing would be to have the discussion about your room with John Strohbeen if you have not had that already.

If you can go out just a another foot or two or three into the room then that opens up more options.

The Ohms can work well with only a foot or so to walls, so some space from corners/walls is needed but not a lot.

I have never seen Vandersteens set up near corners, usually more towards the center of rooms/walls, so you might want to check that.

Maggies will be very compromised that close to rear wall though side walls matter less.

Spatial not sure about those either in corners....

Another good option might be just smaller monitor speakers on short isolating stands like Isoacoustics, similar to the Vanatoo setup in my wife’s sunroom (less is more in that room as well due to lively acoustics and limitations in placement). That would be very inobstrusive and provide more flexibility in placement perhaps. Also add a sub in this case afterwards perhaps but only if needed.

No corners will deliver more bass so that is right.

Those speakers (what are they?) appear more directional/forward firing so soundstage and imaging might work OK there.

It is always a tradeoff....walls/corners deliver more bass but early reflections kill soundstage and imaging. For the best of both, speakers must be somewhat away from walls (how much varies by design based on dispersion pattern) and deliver proper bass levels there.  Using a separate, adjustable  powered sub with crossover to handle the lower octaves provides flexibility.

Not familiar with those Vandy models but have heard Treos I believe it was in a much larger room in a mid room setup and liked those very much.

Matching speakers to room especially bass levels is important. You can always add more bass via subs if needed but too much is harder to deal with.

Soundscape in Baltimore is a dealer I am familiar with that has sold Vandersteen for many years. I believe they sold Ohm Walsh prior as well I was told back in the 80s prior to direct sales only when Ohm was still sold through an independent dealer network that went under largely and almost took ohm with them.


You might give them a ring and see what they may offer. I see several Vandy models on their sale website page.

Jerry are you talking about the original Walsh driver patent Expiring (I’m assuming there was one) or the newer one for the “Walsh Style” CLS design that JS and Ohm have used since the early 80s?

I know there are other Walsh drivers in the original mold like GP DDD driver. I don’t think they could have done that if an original Walsh driver patent were in effect.

The original Ohm A and F Walsh speakers sounded great but the single driver full range design was brittle and not suited for the masses. Hence the CLS approach or DDD approach which only covers higher frequencies.

I’ve always found the OHM CLS design to be virtually indestructable. I’ve put mine through a lot of abuse over the years and nary an issue. They just get louder more dynamic and clear the more juice you throw at them so JS nailed that flaw with the original design.

Dale Harder is the guy who claims to have solved a lot of the original Walsh driver issues with his newer designs but don’t hear much about those. Would love to hear them though. Hoping he does CAF sometime.

John Strohbeen at Ohm pays a lot of attention to getting that certain sound he is looking for (his favorite seats in Carnegie Hall) but keeping costs minimal to achieve it. IMHO. He could care less about “high end”, only about getting better sound to more people.

I’ve been to Carnegie Hall and felt quite at home there in regards to what I heard. 🏅

I bought my Magnepans circa 1986 from a shop called Audition in Birmingham AL.


That shop was owned by no other than Jim Smith who literally wrote the book on speaker setup and was Mr Magnepan at the time (Mr. Avant-garde more recently).
Jim himself may have demoed and sold them to me. Not sure about that.


That was the only time I walked in a shop and bought speakers immediately when hearing. The sound was that good.
The speakers were located almost dead center of the listening room.


I’ve been to other Maggie dealers since and the setup is typically just a few feet out from the wall but they never sounded as good as that day in Alabama again to me.


I tried hard to reproduce in my room at home but never quite achieved the Jim Smith magic.

Ha right well if any consolation my wife likes speakers out of the way and no wires showing.

Does she like them almost half of the way into the room where they sound best or close to the wall where out of the way?

Can't imagine not liking the Spatial sound.  

WAF between Spatial and Ohm, especially once you get them located properly, is a lot different so that will be interesting.   The Walsh speakers in particular with the newer cabs tend to not draw attention to themselves which some will like and others not as much.

Yes I am a big vintage prog rock fan and saw The Musical Box do their simulated 1972 vintage Genesis live show a few years back. They did the entire Foxtrot album start to finish and it was simply awesome.

Then I came home and did a replay with my Ohms.  :)

Yea the Ohms with the Walsh style wave bending drivers where the sound is emitted from the rear of the driver are kind of a open baffle hybrid design where the cabs come into play primarily for bass delivery.

Pretty sure the design is patented and nobody else does it this way. German Physics uses wave bending omni Walsh drivers but those cover the higher frequencies (which are more directional to start with) not the lows whereas Ohm is the opposite. GPs like most omnis including mbl require a lot of distance to walls to perform but not Ohm because sound is physically attenuated inside the cans in wall facing directions by default. Nobody else does that for you....you need room treatments for similar results close to walls.

Just don’t look inside the cans.......UGLLY!!!! John Strohbeen is the guru who figured out how to do this cost effectively without customers having to witness the resulting mess by hiding it in a very clean looking "can".

They do quite well at delivering a lot of good bass out of a relatively small package and go loud with suitable amp without ever showing any signs of stress, better than most.

Driver and cab size determines bass levels possible and suitability for a particular room size.

Although the Ohms in both those rooms are only a few feet apart, the soundstage extends wall to wall, a good 18-20’ in both cases with players very well located specifically within with most all recordings. Good mono recordings will image with a very lifelike, somewhat dimensional presentation, from dead center of the wall regardless of where along the wall the Ohms are placed. The Ohms do mono recordings better than anything in regards to a lifelike presentation. The bottom portion of my L shaped room extends about 10’ to the left of the bigger Ohms in teh first pic, the F5 series 3 (12" driver, refurbed Ohm F cabinets). The smaller are 100S3 (8" driver) in refurbed Ohm Walsh 2 cabs. Both series 3 drivers are 1 generation older than current X000 line.

I liked the Spatials very much and they made the cut  when I heard them but only a single demo in a hotel room at a show so my exposure is limited.

Not sure I agree about Maggies having better detail or image specificity.  

I will say that Maggies and Ohms both have unique presentations.

Also that Ohms especially will deliver what you give them and respond to upgrades upstream and tweaks.  No two setups are likely to sound the same.

Maggies excel at inner detail of smaller ensemble acoustic recordings.

Ohms get the edge for overall delivery of all kinds of music.  If you listen to pop/rock or large scale dynamic productions you want the Ohms in order to deliver the excitement.  They can also do delicate beauty though that is probably Magnepan's powerhouse.

Another huge difference is placement of Maggies needed to perform versus Ohm.   

I ditched the Maggies after many years in favor of Ohm specifically due to placement issues and lack of excitement with many things I listen too.

The web site has not been updated in a while.  Glad to hear that’s because business is good. 

I  am in Baltimore County MD.  Generally open to provide a listen to those interested. 

Wow 4-5 months is long for Ohm.  Pandemic I suppose.  Glad business is good.
Ohm usually closes most of July and runs sales prior ie around now. So now is usually a good time to buy ( I did) but this year might be different.

That amp should do quite well with either I would expect.   For me getting the right speakers to fit the room is job 1, then amp match job 2.   
The thing the Ohms do uniquely is the very large sweet area.   They will do soundstage  and imaging coherently throughout the room with most any decent placement.  Spatial will be tougher placement I expect. Both sound great when set up well. 

@coot

I would expect to be able to tame that room using the adjustments right on the 5000s.
Mine are in an L shaped room.
Also what gear is upstream? That makes a big difference in resulting sound as well and most tweaks as well.

I had Maggie’s, replaced with large Ohm F5 s with 12” drivers. Have heard Spatial at shows. Both are viable choices. Ohms work very well in odd shaped rooms. Biggest difference is Ohm will have the large sweet area and may be easier to place for good results whereas Spatial specs as somewhat more efficient and is probably more flea power tube amp friendly though beefier  tube amps seem to do well with Ohm as well.