Kooky
Looking for my Final Pair!!
Been through the high end maelstrom for over 30 years and although I have enjoyed the ride, I desperately want to find speakers that exude dynamics, tone and presence. I want to be transported to the Village Vanguard where The John Coltrane Quartet are performing any night I desire. I want to feel the timbre of his sax 🎷. When I close my eyes I want to be enveloped by the atmosphere of the space and awash with the impact and emotion being expressed by the musicians. I don’t want to hear what the engineers hear after they mix a recording...I want to be in the studio when the tracks are being laid down! So far, Tannoy Heritage Arden have come to my attention, Klipsch Cornwall IV’s, JBL S4700’s or perhaps Spatial Audio X3’s? Help
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Dear @dave_b : Cleeds is rigth and even CDP goes beyond due to oversampling rates.Only as an example Spectral electronics goes to frecuencies as high as Mhz, yes Mhz: so what are you talking about? an spectral is not the only equipment with wide frecuency ranges. Wilson goes at around 22khz ( +,-3db. ) but does Focal drivers handled usable frequencies over 25khz. "" The only speaker I heard that did the top end extension correctly was my Maggie 3.6’s "" "" wned speakers that went out to 45khz and beyond...if anything, the frequency balance was tipped up! "" Looks as you , one way or the other, has a " problem " with high frequency sounds beyond 2okhz but live MUSIC harmonics goes beyond that figure. I know that you are entitled with the limited frequency and high IMD distortion levels in those IV and maybe is that fact the one that impedes you can look the whole forest, you are seen only one pine on that forest. Enouigh, because the worst " deaf man " is the one that does not wants to hear as the worst blind man is the one that does not wants to see. At the end in reality I don’t care what you like to listen. I’m only sharing my opinion trying to help " some one " with a non biased attitude and wide open mind. R. |
Hello, I did not see any reference to room tuning. Fixing your room will go a million miles further than buying better gear. Reach out to Norm Varney at AV Room service. He is the authority when it comes to playback room acoustics. He has written a lot of publications. If you have not tuned your room and you have good gear take the next real step. It will amaze you beyond belief. You want a system that sounds like the recording. it is not possible without address the play back room. |
I have to agree with cliff12, even though he lobbed his billboard into a thread he has no interest in, as Ozzy mentioned, that at a certian level of committment the serious audiophile must get serious about the room. In my experience most well furnished symetrical rooms don't need too much, but if you don't have symetry your missing a large percent of the picture. It's always amusing to hear about cable nuances from guys that have one speaker in their bathroom and other in front of their dishwasher. So still no comparisons to the Oragutans? |
@bjesien I agree completely. You have to look no further than the systems page on this forum (and others) to see that some people don't have a clue how to set up a two channel system in a room. Throwing $$ at the problem by buying expensive equipment is not the answer. Room treatment and thoughtful setup and placement is key. But cliff12 came out of left field with a post that looks suspiciously like a shill. |
There's a SUPERB article in Sound and Vision written by David Ranada about why NOBODY has yet proven not only that either DVD-Audio or SACD are superior to one another, but that EITHER is (AUDIBLY) superior to regular 16 bit 44.1khz. In the article, they cite tests which PROVE that there IS audible difference between sound heard which contains "ultrasonic" frequencies (above 20khz, where DVD-Audio and SACD succeed, but cd fails). The test also proves that the differences heard were INTERMODULATION and HARMONIC distortion WITHIN the "audio band" (below 20khz) caused by the ultra-sonic content "beating against" frequencies below 20khz. In other words, (and this is something I've suggested and suspected before) when people hear "big differences" the nature of the difference is that systems which reproduce lots of energy above 20khz are generating LOTS of distortion products below 20khz, and it's the distortion products which we hear, and which cause some to declare that there's "much more detail, and air". When a crossover was introduced so that the frequencies below 20khz, and those above are being reproduced by separate drivers, the distortion disappears, and along with it the "enormous differences"! |
Ozzy I think we all face the diemna on this site of trusting each others ears, experience, intentions and motivations. Now we have someone like cliff that adds a whole new dimension. Is this company his friends? This is one of the few industries where you can buy 10 large worth of cotton batting and velcro from a guy with a 1980's computer program and be considered a friend. I guess I'll look at his post favorably because there is some truth to it, but I'm suspicious. :) |
daveb, I actually tried a bought an inexpensive set of planar magnetic supertweeters to augment my speakers last year, and found them to be disappointing. The ones that I bought sounded sort of "dry". However, 3 weeks ago, I finally bought a set of the Townshend ribbon supertweeters, and I have to say that they are as good as I had heard that they are. |
Not a bad idea dave_b. I would never buy a Townshend product for the same reason I would never buy a Walker product. Their marketing is insulting and most of their products are totally worthless if used as directed. Adding supertweeters to loudspeakers is a matter of taste not accuracy. These tweeters run down to 6 kHz and will be very audible. This might make some people think they are getting more detail but what they are really getting is a brighter more confused treble. Unless you can get the super tweeter within 1/2" of the tweeter in the loudspeaker they will be perceived as two separate drivers. Can you tell if there is only one trumpet playing vs two? You want the speaker to speak in one voice. You will notice that in line source speakers using dynamic drivers like Bob Carver's Ultimate Line Source the tweeters are stacked in a line very close together. In this way the are forming a single line source. With an add on tweeter you will always hear it as a separate source and it will always sound...artificial. Experiments we did way back with Decca ribbon tweeters bore this out and we stopped selling them as add-ons. |
Dear @mijostyn @cliff12 : Both of you are rigth and Mijos I don’t know if millercarbon is reffering in his post to you, me or some one else but if he reffered to you then he is wrong for say the least. "" The low frequency -3dB point of the first order crossover is set at 20Khz "" that’s came from Townshend site and been a first order crossover is the main culprit of what you posted about that 6khz frequiency response but as critical of that fact is that that supertweeter can’t be at the rigth distance from the speaker tweeter. Something to take in count too is that the ribbon driver design in the ST has a way different frequency dispersion than horns. But it’s useless for both of you posting in this thread when it’s surrounded by some pseudo MUSIC lovers and pseudo audiophiles that unfortunatelly have very low knowledge levels. At least it’s what they showed and follow showing. Go figure that at the other frequency extreme ( bass range ) is a Rel sub working ( in the wrong way. ) from around 30hz so the 60hz harmonics is listening at the same time that 60hz main speaker frequencies ! ! ! Unfortumnatelly too that some are swiming in the stupidity sea and for what I can see never will go out of that sea. R. |
You really shouldn't talk about ignorance Raul. Don't look down on others thinking that their opinions and experience are of less value than yours. And while your holding yourself in such high regard, at least learn to spell so that we down here can understand your proclamations. And by the way, even Townshend says that supertweeter placement on top of the speakers is fine. |
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Rocky losses 23 times before coming the champion a you put it back in box first day? People on this site help and maybe you just don’t want spend on amp and it easy to do send it back. Daniel son got hit in face by Johnny and still would try to make amp to hear work with speaker. You need Mr myogi you take back out and fix amp. |
I've owned two BAT preamps and a friend had a BAT SS amp for years. That said, BAT would NOT be my first choice today. Or even second. But I bet that integrated would sound pretty good and give dave a taste of tubes. But there are far better tube amps for far less money IMHO. I'd at least try to make it work. Unless the hum is unbearable, I could put up with it at least long enough to compare it to the Krell. Oz |
I like VTL, Quicksilver, Music Reference, The Carver 275, Decware, Line Magnetic. My current amp is a NOSvalves VRD ST-45. But I have a Raven Audio Osprey on order that might unseat it. Of all the tube amps I have owned there have only been three that I couldn't get rid of fast enough. VAC PA 100/100 Sonic Frontiers Power 2 Cary SLI-80 |
Delta Bravo, while your flight plan is sound, you need to adjust your angle of descent. The Cornwalls "are in another league completely than the JBL 4429s?" Really? Sorry man, I'm not buying what you're selling. I think it's great that you're deliriously happy (for now) with the Cornwalls but you proclaimed that you were deliriously happy when you bought your "endgame" JBLs too. Personally I like both speakers but would reverse the order of preference. Hey, I hope you've found your "final pair." But given your fickle history, I don't believe for one moment that you have. |
So I’m now Delta Bravo? How very...military of you 😅. The 4429’s were a revelation for me in what a horn based box speaker could deliver. The B&W’s were a last gasp at the crazy high end neurotica segment of audio dreams...but where the Cornwall’s better the JBL’s are in terms of scale, clarity and wide deep soundstaging. They are just more alive and present sounding! Both are highly recommended 👍 |
@jtcf Thanks! I love the old school retro vibe look, smell and feel as much as the sound. It’s really difficult to get full bodied dynamic sound with low distortion and great clarity in a speaker system these days. Soundstage is huge, which was a big surprise to me, given that they are large boxes. In an imperfect world, the Cornwall’s can offer a sweet warm embrace for my audio soul whenever I need it...and I need it a lot! |
If noise is a concern, you should check out the Audio Note Cobra integrated. I'm using the Cobra with CW IV speakers, it's dead quiet (no hum and barely any idle hiss). As an added bonus, the amp has an integrated DAC based on the Philips TDA 1543 chip. It's a recent addition and I'm blown away how good it is for relatively short money. |
Dear @dave_b : "
full bodied dynamic sound with low distortion.." Low distortions? unfortunatelly way wrong your statement and that's why I post about because is wrong. Btw and only for your learning ladder: http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm R. |
Dear @dave_b This is a high-ligth of measured works made by Bruel&Kjeuer about sound/distortions. Unfortunatelly the ggraphics can't be seen here but the expert explanation speaks by it self: "" Practical example s of Intermodulation Distortion (IMD) measurements Intermodulation distortion can also be used effectively to evaluate crossover designs. If a transducer is excited with a fixed low frequency test tone, for example near resonance to cause large diaphragm excursions, and another test tone that sweeps up in frequency, the resulting distortion will indicate both amplitude modulation distortion and Doppler frequency modulation distortion. The Doppler phenomena in loudspeakers occurs when a high frequency source is shifted by a low frequency. Look at the IM distortion for the fullrange loudspeaker with its single driver trying to reproduce the entire frequency Fig. 21a Harmonic Distortion components are attenuated by filter networks while 3rd range (Fig. 22). There is a lot of 2nd order difference frequency components remain the same level as the excitation frequencies, order IM distortion. This is quite audi- fi andf2 (assuming 100% distortion) 12 ble in the midfrequency range. If a chamber music duet with a cello and a flute is played through a single driver, the driver might cause the high frequencies of the flute signal to be modulated by the low frequencies of the cello signal. "" That CW woofer is just terrible even that you said " low distortions ". R. |
