Looking for my Final Pair!!

Bruno's comments contradict Raul's conclusion. Bruno teaches that a larger cone can get the job done with less excursion (which means 'lower distortion' in this case). The Klipsch has a 15" woofer, which is a larger cone resulting in less excursion. Bruno then uses the example of a 1KHz tone intermodulated thru Doppler Effect (with a high excursion cone); the Klipsch woofer is crossed over at 700Hz.

Because the Klipsch horn is well active at 1000Hz it masks the lower level distortions of the woofer at the same frequency in the same way that this occurs with many other loudspeakers. Bruno's comments support the idea that the Klipsch is a lower distortion loudspeaker insofar as its woofer is concerned.


We can see from this conversation that so far no particular argument has been leveled at the woofer itself. If there is a weak argument (re. Bruno) for distortion it would have to be about the crossover frequency not the woofer.

Occam's Razor is the oldest scientific principle. It teaches that given two explanations, the simpler one is probably the right one. We have Raul's remonstrations as the complex explanation, and we have the far simpler explanation: In a nutshell Raul was/is simply wrong; we see this in spades from Bruno's text, which explains why the Klipsch is a lower distortion design.

You make critics and as always with out facts. Please bring/show here your first hand experiences with measures that proves your " muddy sound eliminating ANY perceived advantage ".

Lol!! ROFLMAO! Raul, first, you don't present measurements here, so you're asking me to do so yet in the same breath, asking for anecdotal perception.


But if you want a nice anecdote, you know I show at audio shows. One year at RMAF we had a ballroom. The system in that room had to be able to play the entire room. John, of Classic Audio Loudspeakers, thought it would be fun to bring an electronic crossover and bi-amplify the system. So we had an amp on the woofers and another in the highs, each driven by the output of the crossover. Recordings I knew well just didn't have the detail that I knew was there, and also knew that the speakers and amps could easily do.


So we removed the crossover and ran the speakers full range (since they have a proper crossover anyway) and the problem was fixed. The simple fact is a crossover can rob the system of resolution.


Note the word 'can' in the sentence above; it suggests a possibility;  not that it always does. You have to be careful of the setup. You took my comments out of context without the important qualifiers. You can't just use any crossover; some work and some don't; if they rob the system of detail you're better off without.

@dave_b Just for the record, Raul took my comments out of context.

.I have done that experiment with all of the speakers I’ve owned in my current home.  I have always preferred full range on mains and sub adjusted accordingly by ear 👂. With REL I have a wonderful blending which delivers deep taught bass.

@dave_b The use of a sub is good, but in order to really take advantage of that, you'd have to make sure no bass is getting into the Cornwalls. That's probably best done with an electronic crossover, which can easily muddy the sound, eliminating any perceived advantage (although there are vast differences in crossovers). So while Raul's suggestion holds water, it has that downside and it should be noted that it applies to any speaker that has bass information on the woofer cone. Its nothing that applies specifically to the Cornwall.

Again, Raul is using an Appeal to Authority logical fallacy, and again fails to explain why this relates to the woofer of the Cornwall in particular. Both quotes don't really say anything about this particular driver.


Its well-known that crossovers help reduce IMD and Doppler Effect distortions in loudspeakers. Both the quotes Raul has used to far to try to make the Klipsch look bad are educational, but Klipsch has a crossover too and for the same reason.


Raul, If you want to find a way to criticize this speaker, perhaps look at seeing if there are any measurements that show breakup of that woofer within its passband. Use something that actually relates to the speaker rather than innuendo.

"" Practical example s of Intermodulation Distortion (IMD) measurements Intermodulation distortion can also be used effectively to evaluate crossover designs. If a transducer is excited with a fixed low frequency test tone, for example near resonance to cause large diaphragm excursions, and another test tone that sweeps up in frequency, the resulting distortion will indicate both amplitude modulation distortion and Doppler frequency modulation distortion.
The Doppler phenomena in loudspeakers occurs when a high frequency source is shifted by a low frequency. Look at the IM distortion for the fullrange loudspeaker with its single driver trying to reproduce the entire frequency Fig. 21a Harmonic Distortion components are attenuated by filter networks while 3rd range (Fig. 22). There is a lot of 2nd order difference frequency components remain the same level as the excitation frequencies, order IM distortion. This is quite audi- fi andf2 (assuming 100% distortion) 12 ble in the midfrequency range. If a chamber music duet with a cello and a flute is played through a single driver, the driver might cause the high frequencies of the flute signal to be modulated by the low frequencies of the cello signal. ""

That CW woofer is just terrible even that you said " low distortions ".

This appears to be a classic example of an Appeal to Authority, which is a logical fallacy. Anytime a logical fallacy is used, the result is false by definition.

While the topic he quotes is correct, it is unrelated tRaul's conclusion; the woofer in the Cornwall is of course crossed over. This prevents the Doppler Effect and distortion components this driver would make (which would otherwise show up at higher frequencies); instead the midrange horn is doing that job. Put another way, the woofer is not a 'fullrange loudspeaker' as described in the quote.

Sorry...VK80i is going back!

Does it do this with nothing at all tied to its input? It might not be a malfunction so much as a ground loop or the like.

@m-db While I've had no desire to replace the speakers, that is because I've not heard anything better. But I did get them updated in that time- dual woofers, new crossover and field coil drivers.@roxy54 If you don't have some goat meat handy its a good idea to not feed the troll. I've tried that and it never ends well.

Leaning Spatial Audio X3’s...talked with Clayton for about an hour!  Great guy and very knowledgeable.

@dave_b Clayton will treat you right.

Looking for my Final Pair!!

You know that's funny right? because audiophiles.
But seriously I've been running the Classic Audio Loudspeakers model T3 for the last 22 years and while I did get them updated, I've felt no desire to replace them. They are 98dB, 16 ohms and flat right to 20Hz. The first breakup is at about 35KHz so they are very smooth, also fast owing to the field coil drivers.