I also do like the Linear Tube Audio integrated amps on the tube side but your speaker choices will be more limited there.
Personally, I am a speakers first kind of guy whenever possible. Get the speakers that will serve you well in your room. Consider dispersion patterns among other common factors used in picking speakers.
Though starting with a quality amp that offers good value and can drive anything is also a valid way to go. I don’t necessarily want to have to change my amp everytime I change speakers.
A lot has to do with expectations.....what sounds good to you. Do you like only one flavor of sound best or many? Or not even sure? Its a very personal thing.
Regardless, modern high quality integrated amps take away a lot of the guesswork because everything is integrated for you to deliver a particular flavor of sound well. Lot’s of recent technical innovations that make integrateds a more attractive choice now than ever before.
Myself, I find many flavors I like very much each with +s and -s so that heavily influences how I think about these things. There is no "ultimate sound" that fits the bill for all. |
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Hello, I know you have several speakers. You need to pick one or two and give the models. I know you have the KEF LS50 Meta. Great speakers. I would pick those. Plus KEF has the new matching sub KC62 for $1500. With this speaker the lateral and horizontal movement won’t matter due to its design. The new sub is small but supposedly goes to 11hz. We will see. I say the Hegel 390 for $6000. The sub and the amp are $7500 together. The DAC inside the Hegel is awesome. I talked before about keeping our local shops alive. My local Hifi store in the Chicagoland area is https://holmaudio.com/ They have several brands that were talked about above. Later get some good stands with isolation feet to take this system to the next level. |
Mimas is excellent choice. Belles Aria Signature is better and <$
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Hey if you have ls 50 metas and a sub, you are good to go for most normal and safe SPLs at least up to 90db or so.
I use the 500w/ch BEl Canto monoblocks with mine, but I do not feel need to go super loud, seldom above 90db, and the Bel Cantos never come anywhere close to breaking a sweat, which is a good thing. ls50s are great but still small and only will go so far loud and clear. But, I do not use an active crossover. ls50s are working full range even with the sub. Add that and let the sub do more work and that (offloading some bass off the ls50s) should take things a good bit even further off any decent number of watts.
With ls50s, you do always need an amp with a lot of juice/current delivery no matter what wattage to drive them to their max in regard to tonal balance, accuracy, detail and all the other usual good things that go along with those. |
thus far I am certainly overwhellmed with the feedback sports fans! thank you all.
my eyes have been opened to possibilities I would never have concieved otherwise.
I’m going to read up on the items I’ve no EXP with which are listed here, and reconsider my previous notions on some of those proposed solutions I did not feel buttered my bread at first listen.
I’ve enough EXP to know synergy is key in the amp + spkrs union. with that in mind, monitors are the prefference as I mentioned earlier to be the choice maybe even mini monitors if i go with a nearfield setup.
we’ll see. .
likely the deal maker IMO apart from the feature set and cost will be support.
if a thing has none its not gonna land here unless its something like a cable. I believe makers should be easy to contact and support should yield timely solutions for end users as after the sale service/support is its own statement of & for the product, its designer, build, andat times its performance.
Going forward, the ease of accessibility for upgrades and or support means
a great deal at least to this audio nut.
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Lots of good recommendations. I'll just add Sim Moon Audio to the list. |
Is that Node not an entry level streamer? If it is, I would spend some of that $7500 on a better streamer. 2k more on a quality streamer, Lumin comes to mind, there are several others, will be a much bigger improvement than the 2k more you would spend on the amp.
I did for me.
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@pkvintage lyyes. the BSN 2I is labled entry level . it seemed a good idea at the time.
some of its functionality is not amenable to beign vision impaired. I'm hoping its IOS app will be more agreeable. regardless the llevel of subjective performance attached to a streaming device or its cost, the ability to use the thing via a mobile app will decree what is or is not possible, not necessarily its price. curiosity more than anything else got me to pull the trigger on this, my initial 'streamer'. so..... we'll see just how accessible the high tech genius designers have as well engineered their software. BTW... NAD uses the BS sW in its #33 INT and its cost is a multiple of the 2I. it as well seems a popular enough component to have been listed in this thread as another INT possiblity. it ain't enough to sift thru the hardware choices, the SW too must be accessiblde compliant. |
Looking for a ‘’No braine’r Integrated amplifier under 7500
Look no more than a Gryphon Diablo 120 or 300 nothing!! will come close. Cheers George |
@mapman
I also do like the Linear Tube Audio integrated amps on the tube side but your speaker choices will be more limited there.
blindjim>
if any tube INT is to be the choice it MUST be auto biased.
as 80% of the music we expereince is made in the first 20wpc, and this effort is targeted at a mid to small size room, I’m sure mating most any INT with most any speaker will work OK.
optimum results here will likely be either a matter of buy try and sell, or do the audiogon shuffle, or become flexible or easy to please otherwise with what ever combo is chosen.
all of the speakers I’ve in mind, or currently own would or should work OK with any decent 30wpc amp.
INTs I’m considering punch out power beyond 30wpc.
speakers I’m more interested in are mostly 2 or 2.5 way w/87db Eff, or higher, and usually spec’d at 8oms.
stand mounted and FS.
keeping strickly to my current plan , is the main problem.
for all intents and purposes I can buy within a bit of sanity, ANYTHING!.
anything that is, of course, I can justify. there won’t be a Vitas 30, or a VAC signature taking up space here. that is a given. I’ve heard both and both are very nice, but that entry fee vs sonic results is an unjustifiable endeavor IMHO.
hence my constirnation revolves around this notion: well, if I’m gonna spend XXXX for ABC, why not spend XXXXX for XYZ instead and then use it in the primary rig later on when I’ve relocated?
Then toooo there is this dog other barking at the aforementioned plan, just get yourself a more up to date amp, dA, and …spkrs while using your present line stage and cabling.
?
or buy one of the ‘turn key’ rigs your heard lately which boast an INT and speakers or separates and speakers that run about $7K w/o DA, and $10K with a Bryston or Benchmark du jour DA?
and that sports fans is my dilemma in a bit more than a nut shell.
thinking back on this thread perhaps I should have asked for ’turn key’ slam dunk INTs and Spkrs suggestion suitable for office/2nd room streaming and file playfack instead.
sheesh.
12mapman>
Myself, I find many flavors I like very much each with +s and -s so that heavily influences how I think about these things.
blindjim>
me too.
@hshifi
I know you have several speakers.
yes. all are vintage. some entry level as with the Canton bookshelf; Silverline SR 15; Phase tech PC 10.5 & PC 6.5 Std Mt.
sorry, no KEF… merely an interest in them.
thanks much for the link though. really.
wsrrsw
why not KISS. Toss out (sell) all the other stuff.
blindjim>.
did I mention ‘hoarding’ is my second hobby? lol
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Look at Lyngdorf. You don't even need an external DAC with their integrated amps so simplicity and a big money savings. Very flexible. Even has an HT Pass-Through mode. If you get the 1120 it has all the connectivity you would likely need. I have the 2170 and absolutely love it's "Wire with Gain" personality. Tested against some expensive Tube and SS amps and it won. If you like tube distortion, it may not be for you though. But even analog from my Feikert turntable is extremely impressive. Not a compromise between digital and analog streams at all IMHO.
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I really liked a Bryston integrated (with a dac) when I heard it at a dealer. I think it was a B135 cubed. A bit above your price range but maybe you can find one used. They often have 20 years of warranty.
Or think of the price as for a dac and an amp. |
Line Magnetic LM-845 Premium ... it's a stunner. |
Figure out speakers first. Then maybe you can get a better deal if you go the new route through a local dealer.
If you can find one, Plinius makes great amps. They've had a thinning out of dealers in the US. Their integrated start at under your price range. I have an older integrated and they are built solid and sound great. Solid state, so no fuss. Can easily be your end game amp. Simple and direct. |
Leben cs-600x as long as you are good with tubes, and have speakers that are 90+db....... |
Bryston 4B3. Awesome sound with a great warranty! |
Ditto on the Pass Labs INT-60. I purchased a demo from Reno HiFi a few months ago and I am very pleased with it, No "bells or whistles" just an excellent sounding and powerful integrated amplifier. I have had other Pass Labs and First Watt products. While I still have tube products, including a Rogers tube integrated, I have traded many for the Nelson Pass products. I have come to believe (with my ears) that Nelson has somehow captured the "magic" of tubes in his solid state designs. |
DECWARE ZEN TORII MK IV or DECWARE ZMA: These are handmade, each one, point to point wiring...no circuit board. 25w or 40w respectively.
These are designed from a SET model. If you're into tube rolling, great. If you're not into tube rolling Decware provides quality tubes and offers replacements at reasonable prices. All of their products come with a lifetime guarantee.
More importantly, these two amps can and do produce higher end performance. Great soundstage, tone (from SS to classic tube), and clarity. Stock units do not sacrifice quality for affordability.
I've owned Jolida, Conrad Johnson, and VAC amps. None of them compare to Decware for quality construction and flexibility of sound presentation. Sound quality, Decware is easily their equal...much better than Jolida of course. In addition, I've listened to Lamm equipment, which is very nice for sure. Try to get them to help you with a repair or system advice...goodluck. Decware is second to none in customer service and a network of users who gladly share their experience. Check out the Decware.com site.
I'm a very happy customer who will not be changing amps.
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Yes - agree 100% - select the speakers first.
Otherwise - you stand a good chance of selecting the wrong amp.
For example - I got Harbeth 30.1’s and 40.2’s thinking they would sound great with my tube amps. They didn’t. Then found that Harbeth recommends only select SS amps to drive them to there full potential - and typically shows them with Hegel amps. Got the Hegel H590 integated - voila - it totally transformed the Harbeths to some of the best sound available. Would have sold them otherwise.
The Hegel H390 and H590 are outstanding with the right speakers (eg. Harbeths, etc.)
The McIntosh MA252 or MA352 hybrid amps also do well with Harbeths - superb actually.
The same is true with Maggies - only a great SS amp drives them to their full potential.
On the other hand Proacs love Line Magnetic tube amps! Also superb.
Very efficient speakers can mate well with tube amps.
So decide on your speakers first and then find the optimum electronics to drive them!!! |
Hello, I apologize. I thought you had the KEFs. If not that then I recommend your Silverline S15s. I know these speakers are really good. You will need some nice stands to get them at the right level. Here is a Silverline link: http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/revequip/silverline_sr15.htmNext I would get a REL T9i sub= $1500. Later I would tell you to get two. I would tell you to get two now but your budget is needed on the int. amplifier.You can go with the Hegel 120 and buy two REL subs but you miss out on the better DAC and almost triple the power in the Hegel390 over the DAC/ amp in the Hegel120. Finally is the NAD M33. This is $5000 and would leave you a few bucks for stands. Just so you know BlueSound is a great streamer with the right DAC. The better the DAC the better it sounds. Hegel play down to 2 ohms. My local Hifi store sells the NAD and Hegel but not the Rel. Just so you know.. the difference between the older T9 and the T9i are which driver is active. The older ones fire down and the front is passive. The T9i is front firing and down driver is passive. Both are great but you will want to get two in the end. If you cannot find two matching older ones get one new one and add a second one later when the budget opens up. This setup will be for a long time. Maybe 20years. The DAC in the Hegel well outperforms the NAD M33 DAC. This is where I have been buying my gear for over 20 years. https://holmaudio.com/ |
Simaudio
Musical Fidelity
Luxman
Bel Canto E1X ($8500)
Hegel |
My LFD NCSE will better most integrates out there
very simple design, no remote not even markings on face plate but if what you are looking for is a fast highly detailed musical sound don’t look any further! |
I have a Mimas. It is fabulous. Just be prepared to wait. They’re all made in California by hand and honestly I think Aestheix is leaving money on the table, it really is that good. |
@ axeis1 if you haven’t tried it yet, use the stock power cord that comes with the Mimas plugged directly into the wall. It made a huge difference compared to a bunch of other expensive cords. Jim White told me to try it and he was right. |
Analog Domain
and for ClassD--its getting close!
Spec
T |
Been listening daily to an Audiomat, Arpege Reference and it's is without question the sexiest sounding, looking and all around fabulously performing integrated I have had the pleasure of using. It's exceptional in EVERY WAY! Now I've also played the $9K Audiomat, Opera and the Arpege sounded better and just had an overall better vibe. Do with this what you will,... |
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+3 on the Ayre Ax-5 Twenty! Cheers!! |
Blind jim. I see the arguments for picking a speaker first.. I totally get that... I feel the naim uniti series would go well with any speaker you pair it with. Again.. I think about your environment. If it’s your office the environment is completely different. You may not be able to achieve a silent sound floor for example. That may not be the goal. Instead I think of my work space as one in which I am mostly distracted but every so often a riff in the song draws me to it so I have to stop and listen to it. I would think usability and the experience is more important. There are a lot of distractions. Vinyl I would put on the back burner in favor of the ease and access of the digital domain. When you get home you can put on a record on your TT and sit down with a glass of wine or whisky (my preference) |
The
Perreaux eloquence 250i is an heirloom product. Your grandchildren will be able to use it. It is a kind of perfection. It looks fabulous, it has exactly the kind of sound you would expect from a high bias ( +- 13 watts) AB Mosfet design. I was lucky enough to audition it in my own home for a week. I went for an ATC integrated instead as it was cheaper. It got an absolute rave review from Ken Kessler in Hi-Fi News. I confirm his 'valve-like' sound. My current set-up (Pass Labs 150.8 power and Emm Labs Pre) is like some 1% better. |
If you’re looking for a bit of power, you might want to reconsider the Ayre Ax-5 Twenty generally considered to be one of the highest quality integrated on the market & better value at its retail of 15k (It’s so good that they keep raising the price) then most other ultra premium integrateds. That’s well above your target price point so the universe has stepped in to assist. You can at this moment buy it for about a third of retail (thousands below the number you want it lower then) from this fellow selling his on AG - https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa8b6e-ayre-acoustics-ax-5-twenty-solid-stateEven tube aficionado Art Dudley really liked it > https://www.stereophile.com/content/ayre-acoustics-ax-5-integrated-amplifier-ax-5-twentySomeone is definitely going to consider this integrated a "no brainer" & snap it up at this price (I’ve never seen it go for this low). It’s newly listed so that’s why it’s likely still available. It doesn’t hurt that if you should ever decide to sell it, you’ll not only easily get your money out of it - but make a profit. Back to you. |
Amazing deal on the Ayre. I recently got a new one for more than twice the cost. More than worth it still.... |
Safe recommendations in SS Integrated-
* Hegel H390 includes DAC (250wpc) $6k - Hegel has lots of positive reviews and many satisfied owners at it’s price point
* Cambridge Audio Edge A includes DAC (100wpc, Stereophile measured 145wpc) $6k
* Aesthetix Mimas (150wpc) $7k (TAS 50 Greatest Bargains in High-end Audio, add $1250 each for DAC and phono options; $500, headphone amp. The phono option got a great review in TAS Feb 2021 issue)
* Krell K300i (150wpc) $7k (add $1000 for optional DAC) - Class A amplification (tube-like warmer sound without the power limitation).
Like others mentioned, better to either pick electronics then decide speaker or choose speaker then decide on electronics. Asking for both electronics +speaker combo gets you the Wild West answers. |
Devialet 220. I've tried others and keep coming back to this one. Got mine used for $4100. Super easy to use. Just wish it had balanced inputs. |
+1 for Anthem STR! with ARC (Anthem Room Correction) [helps with speaker choice and placement]
$4500
Absolutely love mine!
$2500 leftover towards speakers
The Anthem Really KICKS my ATC SCM 40's effortlessly. (85 db efficiency)😎 |
I agree with cakyol,I own the pass labs int 250. I got mine from Reno audio,it was an open box for 7500,and it is a superb amp. Unbeatable, will drive any speaker.
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Look into the Prmare I35. It is very tolerant to a wide range of speakers, has XLR inputs, can be configured with state of the art DAC and streaming, and at 150 Watts into 8 Ohms has enough power for most applications.
I have the I32 and I love it. The I35 uses even faster class D power modules. Check out the review on The Absolute Sound and elsewhere. The TAS review honestly rates it just a smidge below some of the above mentioned entries; but at a much more reasonable price.They are now sold through Crutchfield. |
hi sports fans!
i’m about to pull the trigger and put this matter to bed.
only a couple ods and ens to address. mostly esthetics. although you can see my latest post which clarifies the odds that need addressing, i.e., stands and speaker cable adapters.
so do stay tuned. naturally there is a wait time for shipping and so forth, thereafter plugging it all together and situating the speakers.
as I can still go in a couple different directions i’ll not mention brands or models just yet. in this thread.
suffice it to say I am a bit excited on the prospects. g
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Look into the Prmare I35. It is very tolerant to a wide range of speakers, has XLR inputs, can be configured with state of the art DAC and streaming, and at 150 Watts into 8 Ohms has enough power for most applications.
I have the I32 and I love it. The I35 uses even faster class D power modules. Check out the review on The Absolute Sound and elsewhere. The TAS review honestly rates it just a smidge below some of the above mentioned entries; but at a much more reasonable price.They are now sold through Crutchfield. i absolutely love my older primare i-30... pre class d brilliant amp, sound is refined yet full of life and sparkle |
Here is the final anser to what I chose in an Integrated amp & loudspeaker combo.
first however I must offer a tremendous THANKS TO ALL for their feedback and thoughts on the topic that began as a simple choice for a decent integrated amplifer for a secondary rig but then morphed into a question of an INT + Speakers philosophic debate.
… and the winners are:
BC E1X integrated amplifier 170wpc @ 8
joseph Audio Pulsar Graphines monitors 87db @ 8
dsound anchor four post stands. for JA Pulsar Gs
with a strong desire to remain conservative the bC INT got the nod on the BC house sound alone.
he JA Pulsars got the nudge from audio show setups I attended that demonstrated they were more than competent speakers capable of superior sound.
the SA stands cost was a big pill to swallow , but if these were good enough for the designer, Jeff Josephh, it seems a safe bet to go with the stands Je J showed his speakers with. and liked
Although it ended up this way it nearly didn’t.
going with a one box rig with DA/preamp/amp in something familiar which as well mated well with the Pulsars became a tedious endavor as the choices were few and far between. one was up for sale but went sold quickly. looking into a new one seemed the best bet at that time. finding one and about to pull the trigger, then reviewing the funds more closely I figured to merely use my existing separates, wait a while and either find a suitable INT or upgrade the amp later.
then a friend saw one for sale off this site and arrangements were made to get into a preowned unit. going that way allowed me to have the funds for the SA stands too.
Agreements were made with the vbarious merchandisers and funds were sent. now we just wait for the big brown truck or the big grey truck to slide by..
here’s hoping all will mix well in the final analysis, and I believe it will.
now… digital cables, and maybe new/different speaker wires. power cords anyone? hmmm.
again, many thanks everyone as the list here for a little while anyghow is one I’ll keep for reference and possibly try some of those suggested later on.!!
jim
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I got lost. OP stated: Looking for a ‘’No braine’r Integrated amplifier under 7500 or so...
So, OP is asking for integrated, right? I’ll chime in with the Sugden people. I own several pieces and they all perform in a stunning fashion. |
@celtic
0I got los0t….. So, OP is asking for integrated, right?
blindjim>
sorry you became confused i’ve. no clue what caused it.
yes. I was seeking a competent great preforming INT in the $7500 MSRP range, more or less.
… and I chose one. see most recent posts above.
as for Sugden… I’m not a fan yet but have not heard the whole line either.. IMHO Rogue, Pass, and Raven would have surpassed Sugden as a pick anyhow had i not selected Bel Canto.
As the pairing of amp & spkrs is key in the minds of many audio hobbyists.Some superfulous and unnecessary input came via the item I never mentioned. With which speakers the prospective INT would supply?
Some posters chimed in on this segment avidly and made the point I was somehow putting the cart before the horse seeking the power plant without also indicating the speakers with which it would join..
nonsense. the speaker first camp takes their notion to far and too often.
staying away from scenarios which pose more critical unions and eyeing those INTs dishing out 150wpc or more seemed the prudent path for pairing with a wealth of possible combinations.
given a choice has been made, other offerings are now merely considerations for some others in this hunt or for a third system perhaps.
with all said and done, I concluded the next items to be pursued and listed them here, , please see above. sorry if this too was distracting.
thanks everyone for every contribution herein.
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Congrats on what I’m sure will be fine choices. Do post your impressions of the gear here when you get it, as it breaks in, and after it stabilizes out after break in. Enjoy the music |
@kren000
Congrats on what I’m sure will be fine choices. Do post your impressions of the gear here when you get it, as it breaks in, and after it stabilizes out after break in.
blindjim>
Thank you. I’m hoping so too. in fact I’m pretty sure it will be just fine at the onset,
just figuring out the best paths for introducing the digital feeds will be a chore. the pdf user guide on the BC E1X was done as images only. sighted folks won’t notice a diff, but accessibility software can not read images. meaning all 45 pages of the preamp… DAC… and amp guides will have to be printed oput and rescanned ass OCR files then re-read and decryprted as the OCR ver is not an exact copy of how the items on each page were inserted. offten much of the content is well, scrambgled about the page. its a real chore at times.
then there’s the fiddling with cables, and iso gizmos, power line conds, etc.
I’m actually looking forward to this build as a few perspectives or bits of EXP . will arise during its arrangement and run in and with differing stands being used briefly right off the bat until the SA stands are made and delibvered.!
one thing for sure I’m not digging too much is running in a brand new pr of speakers… again. lol
but then somewhere in it all is the fun of this past time. somewhere….
jim
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Pass Labs and Simaudio are a great place to start. Pathos Acoustics is making some very nice integrated amps also. |
Decware...for when you get tired of the high end merrigoround! Otherwise, Yamaha A S701....and get efficient speakers...you’ll thank me later! |
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UPDATE
presently running in the new Pulsar graphines with my dusty but trusty Onkyo 805 receiver with about 60 hours on them by close of day today.
another pair of speakers, these being floorstanders from Phase technology i just had completely rebuilt should arrive back from the factory tomorrow… perhaps.
Sound anchor stands for the Graphine stand mounts are still on order.also awaiting several signal cables from Monolith for connectivity.
with all of the equipment on hand having been sitting static for quite some time now, I see another month or so at least before I could honestly begin apprasing anythibng.
the JA Pulsar G’s do seem to be advancing in their presentation fullness at least. their lower register compliment has been the one aspect not easily overlooked by virtue of its presence from day one. Both the Onkyo Rec and JA Pulsar’s demonstration are akin to being neweish as the Receivert has been sitting static for years pretty much, seeing nearly no use in the intereim. both run several hours daily in another room playing various FM stations.
FUN! FUN! yeah, loads of funl.
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