Helllo all!
finally I’ve landed on my solution… well at least for now.
thanks so very much for all the insights and eXP and choices on the options that inundated this thread.
sorry for taking so long to finish out this decision but more than I had counted on went into the plan and its ultimate outcome changed several times.
the original ambition here was to arrange an ‘office’ system with a budget of around $7K or so for the amp/streamer/DA itself and pair it with my new Joseph Audio Pulsar graphine monitors.
hoping aginst hope, all would fall in below $10K
well, so much for ambitions. lol
The JA Pulsar IIs and their need for stands which wound up as Sound Ancors built specificaly for them would add another grand to the mix.
naturaly a sub would be in order and that conversation led to purchasing a pair of sVS 3000s to augment the bottom octaves.
pony up another $2400 for these and their associated ISO footers and cables ol’ sport!
back to the INT streamer bit…
several options posted here came close to getting the trigger pulled but ultimately of them all I let the hammer fall on what would turn out to be ‘for me’ the exact wrong choice.
initially desiring a one box power and streaming solution i went with the Bel Canto E1X integrated dA streamer. nice enough unit. sounded just fine. the problem was I did not check out the BC IOS app beforehand. if i had simply downloaded it and tried using it initially Bel Canto would have been dismissed outright as a pick immediately!
why?
for whatever reason, the BC app was not writen in compliance with Apple’s Voice Over accessibility feature set which enables those with visual challenges to over come them and interact seamlessly with the app or its hardware as anyone else could.
the BC app did not work with VO at all. nada. zip. zilch.
that bump in the road had its own cost. a substantial one as well, but I should have done a wee bit more investigation so I’ll not totally hang all of it on BC or myself. perhaps just equal parts.
the BC E1X has of course, left the building.
. detour ahead!
for the first time in my EXP putting together tons of stereo outfits, I went basically off ‘ ‘ advice on these pages and that of other owners, and IMO some integral specs.
All of this culminated late today when I ordered the systems last few components, opting now for a ‘two box’ power and streaming’ affair. and a change in the speakerage to be used.
the Pulsars will only be a temporary visit in the office. they will or should land in the master bedroom when all is said and done.
a pair of totally rebuilt former flagship speakers from phase technologies (PC 10.5) 3 way towers will mate with the Rogue power house The PC 10.5s are hungry speakers which dip just below 4 ohms so the 250wpc hybrid Rogue is better suited for them. their ten inch bass drivers too might preclude the need for subs in the smaller environmengt.
sheesh.
i’m batting nearly a thousand so far in this hunt with what I am chasing and what actually ends up happening.
oil well. an audio nut has to do what an audio nut has to do. right?
the power plant as said will be the latest revision from Rogue Audio in its Pharro II hybrid amp.
the streamer will be a lumin T2.
the power line conditioner will be from Taurus a passive 15a unit with 4 duplex outlets. I think its called the Max.
XLR cables to connect the Lumin and Rogue will be Kimber cables latest carbon.8’s. an active shielded pr of Synergistic Research bi wire spkr cables with cardass connectors will carry the signal to the Pulsars.
power cords for the moment will be from my inventory of VooDoo, Virtual Dynamics, Shunyata Research and Nirvana.
the rack is a one off custom built to ordewr all mahogany item with 4 levels, on casters and with a accessory drawer.
the Rogue Pharoh II arrived today.
the balance of the outfit is ordered, , e.g., the T2, XLRs, and passive conditioner, and should be a late christmas party or they will herald in the New Year
I definitely toyed with acquiring items farther up the food chain such as 4the Lumin x1, a more upscale dA and an Aurender streamer.
Sure, I thought too about numerous other power plant solutions but in all 4had to reign in my STEADILY rising ambitions and remind myself it is only an ‘OFFICE’’ RIG. .
… after the 2022 Fla Expo we will be undertaking the ‘main’ listning outfit. .project i fear that one will require a far deeper reach into the pocket and a bit more time for consideration to finalize it!
i will say some of that go to rig already has some pieces in the house. more on that later of course.
More on listening in the office coming asap.
again many thanks to those who took their time to point out so many fine options
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Any AYRE integrated amp.
Happy Listening! |
I swear I read it somewhere in a review also but now I can’t find it. Stereophile review also shows cover off view with fans visible blowing right thru heat sinks. I’d guess they aren’t audible - was kinda joking about hearing the fans humming
plus lots of amps have fans. Was just trying to get a rise out of the krell fans(boys), haha |
In the cutout photo, those 2 things near the display could be fans. Though I do not hear anything there. This unit is played for most of the day in the living room and at the end of the day the unit is warm but I still do not hear any fans.
I maybe opening up the unit to make a speaker connector repair in the near future so I will be able to see for sure. I could also ask KRELL tomorrow when I talk to them about sending me a new speaker connector.
Though I am not concerned about any potential fan now after using it for weeks. I used to have this unit situated 1/2 foot from my sitting position when I had it in my office and still heard no fan. |
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There are no cooling fans on the KRELL K-300i, at least none that I see or hear. I will check if there are any near the vents. I bought it recently and it is a great integrated. Better for my needs than the Luxman 509x which I feel is a bit limp. The Luxman m900 is much better than the 509x and the KRELL K-300i is in that league.
The KRELL has some serious bass power and it is buttery smooth. I am a Benchmark guy and yet I love the sound of this KRELL. I compared it to the CODA CSiB which was also amazing and another one I would take over the Luxman 509x. I sold the CSiB and kept the KRELL K-300i. Though I did recently buy the CODA 07x preamp for another system based on the sound of the CSiB. I am trying not to buy the CODA #8 amp to pair with the 07x.
I plan on hooking up Yamaha NS5000s, with it’s 12 inch woofer onto the KRELL. That will be a killer system. The KRELL’s internal DAC is so-so but I plan on using it because it is so convenient to have just 1 unit for music.
BTW - the reason I sold the CODA over the KRELL was because I needed to sell one and I had an offer to buy the CODA anytime I was willing to sell it. Both are great but I needed the rack space and the money to try other things. I used to think the Mark Levinson 580 was the best integrated I had heard but the CODA and KRELL were more impressive to me.
BTW2 - Just checked the KRELL with a flashlight and magnifying glass. I see no fans inside that unit. I do understand that fans usually are on the back but I wanted to double check. |
Luxmans 509 and 590 under 10k destroy the krell.
The krell has two fans. I don’t want to listen to fans humming along |
FYI...the Krell K300i is Class A now:) |
Krell K300i...with or without a digital board DAC/Streamer! Reviews are unanimously glowing, product of the year winner and I can vouch for it being as good as it gets short of $20k D’Agostino Momentum kit! |
I would consider going with a Marantz integrated amp. Should be able to get in under your price point.
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And yysantabarbara owned both the coda Csib and the krell k300i (7k msrp) and sold the coda, kept the krell (which is beaten by many integrateds unddr 10k), haha.
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Here is why Coda is the best bargain for sure at $6500,Their CSIB integrated amplifier is a steal it is literally a #8 amplifier
with 3 options, 150-300 wpc 1st 18 watts pure class A option 1
option-2 - 250-500wpc 12 first watts in classA
option3- 400-800wpc-8 first watts ,
a scaled down version of their great #7 preamp in pure class A.
Huge power transformer 3kva and 80k uf in power capacitors.Nobody even close to that and it’s a potted shielded Torroid the competition ,No.
The latest Jfet input stage,Nmosfet gain stage and 20 matched Bipolar resistors per Channel on the output , up to 120 amps on demand for short peaks Nothing even at $10 k has transformers and current of this magnitude, and
a 10 year warranty parts,and labor ,the 1st year if there is a fault they will pay shipping up and back the 1st year, 5 year Transferrable warranty ,Stereo times best of 2020, and a great review due out soon ,they refuse to play politics with some of the advertisers out there regarding $$ reviews.Highly Recommended !! |
UPDATE
presently running in the new Pulsar graphines with my dusty but trusty Onkyo 805 receiver with about 60 hours on them by close of day today.
another pair of speakers, these being floorstanders from Phase technology i just had completely rebuilt should arrive back from the factory tomorrow… perhaps.
Sound anchor stands for the Graphine stand mounts are still on order.also awaiting several signal cables from Monolith for connectivity.
with all of the equipment on hand having been sitting static for quite some time now, I see another month or so at least before I could honestly begin apprasing anythibng.
the JA Pulsar G’s do seem to be advancing in their presentation fullness at least. their lower register compliment has been the one aspect not easily overlooked by virtue of its presence from day one. Both the Onkyo Rec and JA Pulsar’s demonstration are akin to being neweish as the Receivert has been sitting static for years pretty much, seeing nearly no use in the intereim. both run several hours daily in another room playing various FM stations.
FUN! FUN! yeah, loads of funl.
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Decware...for when you get tired of the high end merrigoround! Otherwise, Yamaha A S701....and get efficient speakers...you’ll thank me later! |
Pass Labs and Simaudio are a great place to start. Pathos Acoustics is making some very nice integrated amps also. |
@kren000
Congrats on what I’m sure will be fine choices. Do post your impressions of the gear here when you get it, as it breaks in, and after it stabilizes out after break in.
blindjim>
Thank you. I’m hoping so too. in fact I’m pretty sure it will be just fine at the onset,
just figuring out the best paths for introducing the digital feeds will be a chore. the pdf user guide on the BC E1X was done as images only. sighted folks won’t notice a diff, but accessibility software can not read images. meaning all 45 pages of the preamp… DAC… and amp guides will have to be printed oput and rescanned ass OCR files then re-read and decryprted as the OCR ver is not an exact copy of how the items on each page were inserted. offten much of the content is well, scrambgled about the page. its a real chore at times.
then there’s the fiddling with cables, and iso gizmos, power line conds, etc.
I’m actually looking forward to this build as a few perspectives or bits of EXP . will arise during its arrangement and run in and with differing stands being used briefly right off the bat until the SA stands are made and delibvered.!
one thing for sure I’m not digging too much is running in a brand new pr of speakers… again. lol
but then somewhere in it all is the fun of this past time. somewhere….
jim
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Congrats on what I’m sure will be fine choices. Do post your impressions of the gear here when you get it, as it breaks in, and after it stabilizes out after break in. Enjoy the music |
@celtic
0I got los0t….. So, OP is asking for integrated, right?
blindjim>
sorry you became confused i’ve. no clue what caused it.
yes. I was seeking a competent great preforming INT in the $7500 MSRP range, more or less.
… and I chose one. see most recent posts above.
as for Sugden… I’m not a fan yet but have not heard the whole line either.. IMHO Rogue, Pass, and Raven would have surpassed Sugden as a pick anyhow had i not selected Bel Canto.
As the pairing of amp & spkrs is key in the minds of many audio hobbyists.Some superfulous and unnecessary input came via the item I never mentioned. With which speakers the prospective INT would supply?
Some posters chimed in on this segment avidly and made the point I was somehow putting the cart before the horse seeking the power plant without also indicating the speakers with which it would join..
nonsense. the speaker first camp takes their notion to far and too often.
staying away from scenarios which pose more critical unions and eyeing those INTs dishing out 150wpc or more seemed the prudent path for pairing with a wealth of possible combinations.
given a choice has been made, other offerings are now merely considerations for some others in this hunt or for a third system perhaps.
with all said and done, I concluded the next items to be pursued and listed them here, , please see above. sorry if this too was distracting.
thanks everyone for every contribution herein.
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I got lost. OP stated: Looking for a ‘’No braine’r Integrated amplifier under 7500 or so...
So, OP is asking for integrated, right? I’ll chime in with the Sugden people. I own several pieces and they all perform in a stunning fashion. |
Here is the final anser to what I chose in an Integrated amp & loudspeaker combo.
first however I must offer a tremendous THANKS TO ALL for their feedback and thoughts on the topic that began as a simple choice for a decent integrated amplifer for a secondary rig but then morphed into a question of an INT + Speakers philosophic debate.
… and the winners are:
BC E1X integrated amplifier 170wpc @ 8
joseph Audio Pulsar Graphines monitors 87db @ 8
dsound anchor four post stands. for JA Pulsar Gs
with a strong desire to remain conservative the bC INT got the nod on the BC house sound alone.
he JA Pulsars got the nudge from audio show setups I attended that demonstrated they were more than competent speakers capable of superior sound.
the SA stands cost was a big pill to swallow , but if these were good enough for the designer, Jeff Josephh, it seems a safe bet to go with the stands Je J showed his speakers with. and liked
Although it ended up this way it nearly didn’t.
going with a one box rig with DA/preamp/amp in something familiar which as well mated well with the Pulsars became a tedious endavor as the choices were few and far between. one was up for sale but went sold quickly. looking into a new one seemed the best bet at that time. finding one and about to pull the trigger, then reviewing the funds more closely I figured to merely use my existing separates, wait a while and either find a suitable INT or upgrade the amp later.
then a friend saw one for sale off this site and arrangements were made to get into a preowned unit. going that way allowed me to have the funds for the SA stands too.
Agreements were made with the vbarious merchandisers and funds were sent. now we just wait for the big brown truck or the big grey truck to slide by..
here’s hoping all will mix well in the final analysis, and I believe it will.
now… digital cables, and maybe new/different speaker wires. power cords anyone? hmmm.
again, many thanks everyone as the list here for a little while anyghow is one I’ll keep for reference and possibly try some of those suggested later on.!!
jim
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Look into the Prmare I35. It is very tolerant to a wide range of speakers, has XLR inputs, can be configured with state of the art DAC and streaming, and at 150 Watts into 8 Ohms has enough power for most applications.
I have the I32 and I love it. The I35 uses even faster class D power modules. Check out the review on The Absolute Sound and elsewhere. The TAS review honestly rates it just a smidge below some of the above mentioned entries; but at a much more reasonable price.They are now sold through Crutchfield. i absolutely love my older primare i-30... pre class d brilliant amp, sound is refined yet full of life and sparkle |
hi sports fans!
i’m about to pull the trigger and put this matter to bed.
only a couple ods and ens to address. mostly esthetics. although you can see my latest post which clarifies the odds that need addressing, i.e., stands and speaker cable adapters.
so do stay tuned. naturally there is a wait time for shipping and so forth, thereafter plugging it all together and situating the speakers.
as I can still go in a couple different directions i’ll not mention brands or models just yet. in this thread.
suffice it to say I am a bit excited on the prospects. g
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Look into the Prmare I35. It is very tolerant to a wide range of speakers, has XLR inputs, can be configured with state of the art DAC and streaming, and at 150 Watts into 8 Ohms has enough power for most applications.
I have the I32 and I love it. The I35 uses even faster class D power modules. Check out the review on The Absolute Sound and elsewhere. The TAS review honestly rates it just a smidge below some of the above mentioned entries; but at a much more reasonable price.They are now sold through Crutchfield. |
I agree with cakyol,I own the pass labs int 250. I got mine from Reno audio,it was an open box for 7500,and it is a superb amp. Unbeatable, will drive any speaker.
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+1 for Anthem STR! with ARC (Anthem Room Correction) [helps with speaker choice and placement]
$4500
Absolutely love mine!
$2500 leftover towards speakers
The Anthem Really KICKS my ATC SCM 40's effortlessly. (85 db efficiency)😎 |
Devialet 220. I've tried others and keep coming back to this one. Got mine used for $4100. Super easy to use. Just wish it had balanced inputs. |
Safe recommendations in SS Integrated-
* Hegel H390 includes DAC (250wpc) $6k - Hegel has lots of positive reviews and many satisfied owners at it’s price point
* Cambridge Audio Edge A includes DAC (100wpc, Stereophile measured 145wpc) $6k
* Aesthetix Mimas (150wpc) $7k (TAS 50 Greatest Bargains in High-end Audio, add $1250 each for DAC and phono options; $500, headphone amp. The phono option got a great review in TAS Feb 2021 issue)
* Krell K300i (150wpc) $7k (add $1000 for optional DAC) - Class A amplification (tube-like warmer sound without the power limitation).
Like others mentioned, better to either pick electronics then decide speaker or choose speaker then decide on electronics. Asking for both electronics +speaker combo gets you the Wild West answers. |
Amazing deal on the Ayre. I recently got a new one for more than twice the cost. More than worth it still.... |
If you’re looking for a bit of power, you might want to reconsider the Ayre Ax-5 Twenty generally considered to be one of the highest quality integrated on the market & better value at its retail of 15k (It’s so good that they keep raising the price) then most other ultra premium integrateds. That’s well above your target price point so the universe has stepped in to assist. You can at this moment buy it for about a third of retail (thousands below the number you want it lower then) from this fellow selling his on AG - https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa8b6e-ayre-acoustics-ax-5-twenty-solid-stateEven tube aficionado Art Dudley really liked it > https://www.stereophile.com/content/ayre-acoustics-ax-5-integrated-amplifier-ax-5-twentySomeone is definitely going to consider this integrated a "no brainer" & snap it up at this price (I’ve never seen it go for this low). It’s newly listed so that’s why it’s likely still available. It doesn’t hurt that if you should ever decide to sell it, you’ll not only easily get your money out of it - but make a profit. Back to you. |
The
Perreaux eloquence 250i is an heirloom product. Your grandchildren will be able to use it. It is a kind of perfection. It looks fabulous, it has exactly the kind of sound you would expect from a high bias ( +- 13 watts) AB Mosfet design. I was lucky enough to audition it in my own home for a week. I went for an ATC integrated instead as it was cheaper. It got an absolute rave review from Ken Kessler in Hi-Fi News. I confirm his 'valve-like' sound. My current set-up (Pass Labs 150.8 power and Emm Labs Pre) is like some 1% better. |
Blind jim. I see the arguments for picking a speaker first.. I totally get that... I feel the naim uniti series would go well with any speaker you pair it with. Again.. I think about your environment. If it’s your office the environment is completely different. You may not be able to achieve a silent sound floor for example. That may not be the goal. Instead I think of my work space as one in which I am mostly distracted but every so often a riff in the song draws me to it so I have to stop and listen to it. I would think usability and the experience is more important. There are a lot of distractions. Vinyl I would put on the back burner in favor of the ease and access of the digital domain. When you get home you can put on a record on your TT and sit down with a glass of wine or whisky (my preference) |
+3 on the Ayre Ax-5 Twenty! Cheers!! |
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Been listening daily to an Audiomat, Arpege Reference and it's is without question the sexiest sounding, looking and all around fabulously performing integrated I have had the pleasure of using. It's exceptional in EVERY WAY! Now I've also played the $9K Audiomat, Opera and the Arpege sounded better and just had an overall better vibe. Do with this what you will,... |
Analog Domain
and for ClassD--its getting close!
Spec
T |
@ axeis1 if you haven’t tried it yet, use the stock power cord that comes with the Mimas plugged directly into the wall. It made a huge difference compared to a bunch of other expensive cords. Jim White told me to try it and he was right. |
I have a Mimas. It is fabulous. Just be prepared to wait. They’re all made in California by hand and honestly I think Aestheix is leaving money on the table, it really is that good. |
My LFD NCSE will better most integrates out there
very simple design, no remote not even markings on face plate but if what you are looking for is a fast highly detailed musical sound don’t look any further! |
Simaudio
Musical Fidelity
Luxman
Bel Canto E1X ($8500)
Hegel |
Hello, I apologize. I thought you had the KEFs. If not that then I recommend your Silverline S15s. I know these speakers are really good. You will need some nice stands to get them at the right level. Here is a Silverline link: http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/revequip/silverline_sr15.htmNext I would get a REL T9i sub= $1500. Later I would tell you to get two. I would tell you to get two now but your budget is needed on the int. amplifier.You can go with the Hegel 120 and buy two REL subs but you miss out on the better DAC and almost triple the power in the Hegel390 over the DAC/ amp in the Hegel120. Finally is the NAD M33. This is $5000 and would leave you a few bucks for stands. Just so you know BlueSound is a great streamer with the right DAC. The better the DAC the better it sounds. Hegel play down to 2 ohms. My local Hifi store sells the NAD and Hegel but not the Rel. Just so you know.. the difference between the older T9 and the T9i are which driver is active. The older ones fire down and the front is passive. The T9i is front firing and down driver is passive. Both are great but you will want to get two in the end. If you cannot find two matching older ones get one new one and add a second one later when the budget opens up. This setup will be for a long time. Maybe 20years. The DAC in the Hegel well outperforms the NAD M33 DAC. This is where I have been buying my gear for over 20 years. https://holmaudio.com/ |
Yes - agree 100% - select the speakers first.
Otherwise - you stand a good chance of selecting the wrong amp.
For example - I got Harbeth 30.1’s and 40.2’s thinking they would sound great with my tube amps. They didn’t. Then found that Harbeth recommends only select SS amps to drive them to there full potential - and typically shows them with Hegel amps. Got the Hegel H590 integated - voila - it totally transformed the Harbeths to some of the best sound available. Would have sold them otherwise.
The Hegel H390 and H590 are outstanding with the right speakers (eg. Harbeths, etc.)
The McIntosh MA252 or MA352 hybrid amps also do well with Harbeths - superb actually.
The same is true with Maggies - only a great SS amp drives them to their full potential.
On the other hand Proacs love Line Magnetic tube amps! Also superb.
Very efficient speakers can mate well with tube amps.
So decide on your speakers first and then find the optimum electronics to drive them!!! |
DECWARE ZEN TORII MK IV or DECWARE ZMA: These are handmade, each one, point to point wiring...no circuit board. 25w or 40w respectively.
These are designed from a SET model. If you're into tube rolling, great. If you're not into tube rolling Decware provides quality tubes and offers replacements at reasonable prices. All of their products come with a lifetime guarantee.
More importantly, these two amps can and do produce higher end performance. Great soundstage, tone (from SS to classic tube), and clarity. Stock units do not sacrifice quality for affordability.
I've owned Jolida, Conrad Johnson, and VAC amps. None of them compare to Decware for quality construction and flexibility of sound presentation. Sound quality, Decware is easily their equal...much better than Jolida of course. In addition, I've listened to Lamm equipment, which is very nice for sure. Try to get them to help you with a repair or system advice...goodluck. Decware is second to none in customer service and a network of users who gladly share their experience. Check out the Decware.com site.
I'm a very happy customer who will not be changing amps.
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Ditto on the Pass Labs INT-60. I purchased a demo from Reno HiFi a few months ago and I am very pleased with it, No "bells or whistles" just an excellent sounding and powerful integrated amplifier. I have had other Pass Labs and First Watt products. While I still have tube products, including a Rogers tube integrated, I have traded many for the Nelson Pass products. I have come to believe (with my ears) that Nelson has somehow captured the "magic" of tubes in his solid state designs. |
Bryston 4B3. Awesome sound with a great warranty! |
Leben cs-600x as long as you are good with tubes, and have speakers that are 90+db....... |
Figure out speakers first. Then maybe you can get a better deal if you go the new route through a local dealer.
If you can find one, Plinius makes great amps. They've had a thinning out of dealers in the US. Their integrated start at under your price range. I have an older integrated and they are built solid and sound great. Solid state, so no fuss. Can easily be your end game amp. Simple and direct. |
Line Magnetic LM-845 Premium ... it's a stunner. |
I really liked a Bryston integrated (with a dac) when I heard it at a dealer. I think it was a B135 cubed. A bit above your price range but maybe you can find one used. They often have 20 years of warranty.
Or think of the price as for a dac and an amp. |
Look at Lyngdorf. You don't even need an external DAC with their integrated amps so simplicity and a big money savings. Very flexible. Even has an HT Pass-Through mode. If you get the 1120 it has all the connectivity you would likely need. I have the 2170 and absolutely love it's "Wire with Gain" personality. Tested against some expensive Tube and SS amps and it won. If you like tube distortion, it may not be for you though. But even analog from my Feikert turntable is extremely impressive. Not a compromise between digital and analog streams at all IMHO.
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