Legacy Focus SE or PS Audio FR20
My custom-made speakers have served me well for 40 years (including several upgrades) but given technological advancement I’m beginning to evaluate new speakers. Top of my list so far are Legacy Focus SE and PS Audio FR 20 - both of which I was able to hear at Axpona. Both are at or above my price range so I’m looking for insights from users on these or other suggestions at or below the price range. Listening habits are 60% rock/alternative, 20% folk, 20% jazz. Integrated amp is 175 watt Plinius 8200, TT is Sota Nova with older model Origin Live Silver tonearm and Grado Reference 3 cartridge. I do have some high-end hearing loss so I’m trying to factor that in as well. Any help appreciated, thanks!
we are legacy dealers here is our take on that
legacy 95db efficiency vs 87 much deeper bass 18hz - 3dbhz vs 23 hz -6db
multiple cabinet options in custom wood finishes vs white or black cabinets hand made in America vs ps probably made in china
room correction option with the wavelet. save and Troy audio intellect NJ legacy dealers |
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Given the music you listen to at Axpona I’d highly recommend you listen to ATC speakers. The SCM40 is excellent and should be well within your price range. Others I’d put very high on my list to visit:
If it’s not obvious I’m jealous and wish I could go as there’s so much great stuff there. These are rooms I’d definitely hit (among others) if I went FWIW. |
I have the Legacy Focus SE with a Ayon Triton Evo. I listen to jazz, R&B and Rock. I find the Focus deliver deep smooth bass on alll. The mids and the highs are my favorite on the Focus. They give deep soundstage and awesome spacing. I first heard them at Axpona also and they haven’t disappointed me since. But remember they are big and heavy but so gorgeous. I did change the spikes to Isoacoustic gaia I. |
I've had the Legacy Focus SEs for years and I love them. My wife and I flew from Anchorage, AK down to Chicago and then drove to Springfield to audition the speakers. Bill Duddleston came in on the weekend and demoed the speakers for us. It was an amazing experience. We drove the speakers back to Chicago and air freighted them to Anchorage. They are amazing full range speakers (no subwoofers needed) and highs and midrange are well balanced non fatiguing. I not familiar with the PS Audio speakers for I know the Legacy's won't disappoint you. See Anthony H. Cordesman's reviews of the speakers in The Absolute Sound. |
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It’s bad enough audiotroy shamelessly pushes his own products here, but that he frequently denigrates both competing products (as he did here) and recommendations from other members is what I find particularly egregious and inappropriate. Nobody else does this, and it’s really underhanded, self-serving behavior that shouldn’t be allowed because a dealer shouldn’t be able undermine honest recommendations here to benefit himself. It’s just wrong. 😖😖😖 |
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Oh no, another soix bashing audiotroy post. I am not sure why you seem to hate audiotroy. Does it hurt that he is a professional that runs a successful audio business with real world experience? Have you ever spoken to audiotroy on the phone or visited his audio store? Why not face the source rather than bothering us all with your personal problem? It appears that your cities are only 45 minutes apart, visit his store and speak your piece to his face and then report back versus backstabbing? Audiotroy’s marketplace feedback shows many sales with a 100% feedback score, you not so much. You know, real sales, real world. Realize that some of us would rather hear audiotroy’s opinions. |
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I don't see anything wrong with the @audiotroy post. It's on topic. The dealer disclaimer is present and the comparative details listed appear clearly stated, although the claim of PS Audio cabinet build location should be confirmed. |
To the OP, its confusing to some degree, and you did report already listening to both sets of speakers at Axpona, so are you looking for something else then? More important imo would be hearing both speakers with your Plinius 8200 before spending up on either of these or something close. Speaker-amp matching matters too, fwiw. |
While i did listen to both speakers at the show, 30-40 minutes in a show environment doesn’t really do any speaker justice- though it does allow for some comparisons. As for testing with my Plinius, of course that would be ideal but virtually impossible given the amp is 35 years old and unlikely to be found in any listening room. I could I suppose buy each set and test them at home but that’s pretty costly and difficult- even with the return policies of both manufacturers. Hence my reaching out to other listeners who have extended experience with either product- thanks again for everyone’s help and insights - much appreciated |
@noromance and my post saying the exact same thing gets taken down by moderators here! I agree with you 100%. Regardless of Audiotroy's past this post was fine. |
@aheydorn Is there a Legacy &/ or PSA dealer withing a reasonable distance. You could take your amp to the dealer and try it there. As for the speakers my only input is that I have Silverline Sonatas which are 93.5 db efficient. My Conrad Johnson MF 2500A 250wpc didn't sound as good as my Latino Dyna ST-70 with my Silverlines. Maybe it was the tubes. Maybe 250 wpc is much more power than the efficient speakers need or can use adequately. IOW,itI was not getting the full benefit of the 250 wpc. It overflowed like pouring a gallon of water into a pint jar. It could be that your 175 wpc would make the PSA's sing better because their 87db can use all the goodness from the Plinius. This is a laymen's observation and thoughts about it. Also Maybe Call each manfg and pose the question to them. |
I have the Focus SEs also. I paired them with a complete Legacy system. Marquee Center, Phantom Sides, Deco Rears along with 4 of their Foundation Subwoofers. I also used their IV Amps. An IV:5 for the Center/Surrounds/Rears and an IV:2 for the Focus's. Bill came to my house to repair one of the subs that was damaged by the freight company. He personally worked on it (he was a master woodworker back in his younger days) for a couple hours before telling me he didn't like the "match", so he took it with him back to Springfield. While here he adjusted my system. All I can say is I have spent a lifetime hunting my perfect system. Well, I found it. I absolutely love it, and so does everyone that stops over to have a listen. If your ever in Ohio your welcome to have a demo. |
@aheydorn looking over the specs for both PS and Legacy speaker models you chose in your post [and pairing with your amplifier], and simply looking at efficiency, you might want to compare the two a bit more here to get pairing ideas. One is 95db, the other 87db, and both are 4ohms - a starting point to consider when pairing with your existing amplifier being able to control multiple speaker drivers. One other thought to share if you are serious about either speaker/models - Legacy Focus SE or XD? - Let’s say if you are choosing the Legacy brand, and you want to stick with your amp now - maybe look at the other "XD" model instead, not the SE. The XD version offers an internal subwoofer amplifier to drive the large woofers for you. Your older Plinius 8200 amp would only need to drive the mids/top end driver duty vs all of it. Might be outside of your stated budget, but worth noting in any case. PS Audio - I have a feeling if you call PS and ask Paul, they are going to want you to buy one of their amps to most effectively drive the FR20s. After looking over the specs, I’d recommend not considering either speaker brand/model until you try them with your amp first, and then hearing them with a proper amplifier designed to power and control either of these speakers, imo. Best of luck on the search.
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I'm also interested in speakers from Legacy and PS Audio, though probably slightly smaller models than those being considered by the OP. I haven't been able to demo any of these speakers in my home so I've been stuck with reading reviews and viewer comments for now. I noticed that Tony Cordesman, the highly regarded audio reviewer who passed away much too soon, had reviewed the Aspen FR30s (though not the FR20s) in 2022 and the Legacy Focus SE in 2011. In Cordesman's review of the FR30 in TAS, he stated "the FR30's midrange and high frequency sound quality was the best I've heard from any speaker to date." He went on to say "The FR30 can give you bass that is at least as good as any single integrated reference speaker I've ever heard." That sound is dependent, of course, on having the right room and careful speaker set-up. Although Cordesman's review is focused on the larger and more expensive FR30, the FR20 has the same planar magnetic high-frequency and midrange drivers that Cordesman raved about in his review. In terms of bass, the FR20 is not the equal of the FR30, but both speakers apply the same design principles and produce bass that blends extremely well with the planar magnetic drivers in those models (according to owners and reviewers). The Legacy Focus SE also garners lots of praise from owners and reviewers, but it uses a version of the famous Heil AMT for the upper frequencies instead of the planar magnetics used by PS Audio. I'm sure the current version of the AMT is better than the original one, but I have to confess that my experience with AMT many decades ago was not very positive. I originally purchased AMT-based speakers based on the clarity and detail of the AMT, but my experience with listening fatigue and frustration with the poor integration of the AMT with the cone-based drivers also used in those speakers led to replacing the AMTs after only a few months. I'm hopeful that the current AMT drivers are much improved, so I haven't dropped Legacy speakers from my possible audition list. I must admit that both the Legacy and the PS Audio Aspen speaker lines have positive and negatives for me in terms of size, weight, and aesthetic design. I like the fact that the Legacy models are available in a range of woods and finishes, but they have more of a vintage vibe than I'd prefer. Although the Aspen lines have more of a sleek modern design, it's not necessarily my favorite modern look in a speaker. I'd love to be able to have home auditions as an option without having to purchase the speakers first - but that isn't likely to happen. I guess a factory listening session would be of some help, but it's a 4-hour drive to get to Legacy in Illinois and a 12-hour drive to visit PS Audio in Colorado. I should probably just stop complaining and go listen to some music on my 32-year-old Thiel speakers. @aheydorn Good luck with your speaker quest!
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If you are looking for something a little less expensive than the Focus SE, think about the Signature SE. Legacy claims that they are designed for listeners who want the sound of the Focus, but in a smaller form. I've had my Signature SE for almost 2 years, and I really love them. Prior to the Signatures, I had a pair of Classic HD; they were really good, but I wanted "more " of the Legacy sound. The factory gave me a very generous trade in deal. I would have gone for the Focus, but the WAF kicked in; I just couldn't sell the additional size. BTW, I'm driving them with PS Audio DAC, Amps and Preamp, so I really like PS Audio products. I've never heard their speakers so I can't comment on them; but I can recommend without reservation the Legacy. |
I have the Legacy Audio Focus XD's. I also have the Wavelet II so I am "all in" and I am deeply satisfied with them. I don't find them fatiguing at all. I am sensitive to that so I pay attention to speakers that present being overly detailed. I have made many refinements to my system and I can hear the changes easily. The FR 20 are $19,000 the Focus SE are $12,000. You get a lot of speaker for your $12K. |
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I have to chime in about bashing Audiotroy for being unethical for posting positive comments about his products. As previously mentioned, he's upfront about his dealer status so there's no subterfuge there. I've had phone conversations about speakers with him and he was unbiased in his recommendations. He told me I was pretty much at endgame and to stick with what I had. At that point he said he had considered investigating becoming a dealer for the brand I owned. He then made helpful suggestions about how to better realize the potential of what I owned. So as far as I'm concerned, he's proven objective and helpful. |
A too went to legacy and auditioned the signature SDs. Sounded nice. Im actually considering. I currently own Paradim 120H's powered by an anthem amp. I really like them but thinking about a future "upgrade" dooes anyone have experience with these 120H's and legacy speakers? If so what are your thoughts |
@artemus_5 Unfortunately the nearest Legacy dealer is in Springfield, IL almost 4 hours from my home. And PS Audio only sells direct from Denver. If I think the Legacy is what I’m pretty sure I want I’ll make a trip to Springfield. No trips to Denver though - I’d have to order the FR 20s and ship them back if I decide against them. BTW I don’t have problems with a dealer weighing in provided they identify themselves as such. I figure quality dealers should know their product better than most as well as competitors’ products. They can offer insights and evaluations I might not have thought of or simply didn’t understand. I’ve worked for years with a local dealer and he hasn’t steered me wrong— that said I also bought my first integrated amp - age 18 when I was younger and dumber — from a dealer who insisted I could get FM radio on it! Imagine my surprise at unboxing! As before, thanks everyone for your insights. |
My stepfather has the Focus SE in his system, and absolutely loves them. He has had Vandersteen 3A and Meadowlark Heron speakers, and these were stand above and vastly outperformed on all levels. Sound staging and delicate details excel in Legacy speakers, but they also have power and control. Build quality is top notch, same with cross over components. |
I own and have used the Legacy Signature SEs for many years now and love them for my room and parity with amp. That said, the Focus SEs definitely breathe easier -- a second midrange driver and 12" vs 10" dual subs assure that. Smaller room, smaller budget, Signatures. Larger room, larger budget, Focus. FWIW. |
It’s sad how this should be an advice board but so many come across as there opinions are gospel and badgering. Sure I will get bashed but who cares. Listening is an opinion of one’s ears. It is not ohms law and so many take it that way. If my one hears a cable or speaker better it’s not snake oil it’s what fits there hearing. So disappointed in post I am out. Take care |
@hickamore Thanks to you and others for SE recommendations. I’ll look into those as well. My room is a largest L-shaped basement room but the system and speakers and listening area are in about half of the long side so hard to define “size”. But certainly worth a look at SEs |
Have to agree with the majority posting a response here on this topic! I have the Legacy Calibre XD speakers... and... they are superb in all respects - very few others sound as good - as is true of any of the Legacy speakers when properly set up. All of their speakers sound very similar to each other - depending upon the space they reside in. They are Open Baffle Hybrids - which have great imaging and soundstage, as well as deep bass, which is refined, "true bass," not bloated "hip hop" bass! And Legacy Audio (Bill Dudleston and team) is the epitome of class in their customer service! As the founder and designer of all the Legacy equipment, he rivals the engineering / design skills of Siegfried Linkwitz - with his speaker designs. He’s a brilliant engineer and applies that skill in all his designs. I followed the Aeris development for years, and finally bought a pair about 4 years ago, directly from the factory in Springfield for use in my new Lake House in IL, while it was under construction. They stored them for me, until it was completed. But, when it was completed, I found that they were too large for the space I had available and I realized they were likely too big and heavy to be practical in my application. After 2 years of storage, they readily allowed me to cancel my order and replace the Aeris with the Calibre stand-mount units, which sound virtually the same in my space. I’m very happy with the "Aeris minis," which sound very much like the Aeris I bought, initially, which I can easily move about as necessary. "Audiotroy" is correct - they are very efficient - which permits you many more options in electronics (including lower powered tube amps) - especially, if you get the XD version. And... if you get the "Wavelet" you can tune them to sound great in whatever space you have them. "Just my 600,000+ cents!" |
The ps audio ribbons are made of the latest material teonix that is more durable they and jbl horns are using it to my knowledge.its light fast accurate. I have the fr 30 and they are great and the legacy valor.i bought both used.ps audio has a trade in program.i have some old legacy focus and they are still going strong.both owners are customer service oriented and are smart designers and have a great team.enjoy the search.there are many class d amps that have come of age and don't cost much. Ps audio has ice amps like ledacy.they come on the used market alot.i enjoy mine they have a tube front end and 1.2 k watts clean no heat into 4 ohms.light unlike my krell.i put all my amps on the high dollar harbor freight carpet dollies so me and the grandkids can do amp rolling.keeps them out of trouble.enjoy the hunt. |
