Lack of Female Representation

Sometimes I come here for a good laugh!

I feel for the women that have to live  with grown men that use the word mansplaining. 
It's like being married to a wet blanket, virtue signaling gone horribly wrong. 
2021: a year  where the Anti Racists and Anti Sexist virtue signalers are simultaneously the  worst offenders. 
Hope the  wife doesn't run off with the help. Chances are very high

For years Iran a Audio store and women were not encouraged to 
seek out audio ,when you would go to a show everything is 
promoted forthe man in the home to invest i electronics .
the past 5 years I have seen much more women at shows 
in the past would hire sexy girls. To offer magazines or brochures .
hey should encourage ladies to sit down and have a listen .
more-then ever ever there are plenty of college educated Women 
who make good money .the days with women staying home and just raising kids is long gone women actually have better hearing.
its a golden opportunity as well as with the youth.

Wonder of wanders, tonight I'll stand with MC & OHM.....*S*

MC, for drilling down to one of the central issues of lyrics, and how they depict women....They DO listen, but with ears of the other, their reality of human interaction as the 'other sex'...which is how they view how they are viewed....
'Viewed' being a narrow view of a subject akin to the male version of....

OldhvyM...for his unbridled enthusiasm....;)

...and those chickens must be the size of German shepherds the way they demand attention....

(...I see it now....the OHM Fowl Army.....the ultimate in parcel protection.
....the sign at the perimeter....

TRESPASSERS  WILL BE PECKED TO DEATH

...not pretty, turn off the cameras and cut Record....)

Spouse prefers the Maggies, but likes the Heils when it's time to Rock.
Prefers a setup that doesn't require a PhD to operate, but knows how to properly handle an LP....and appreciates Why.
Wants better audio from her 'puter, but no desk space for monitors; plan in hand, pending the time when 'puter is not in use...includes a sub....;)

We take audio pretty seriously around here; the way we both approach it is different....not to mention that which is enjoyed in pursuit of.

I'm good with that. *S*

Who really cares if they're under-represented? If they want to be in the hobby/interest they already are or they will be. There's certainly nothing to stop them, and it wouldn't matter if it was considered a "man's" interest anyway. Women have appropriated everything masculine from baseball caps to boxer shorts.

The bigots are back. Yay. 

@au_lait

Yup. And the irony of this comment by Millercarbon:

So you want to attract more women, you got your work cut out for you. A public rebuke of the people who contributed to the rap threads will be a start.

is incalculably deep. He made numerous ignorant claims, chiefly that all rap music is profane and sexist, and challenged others to prove him wrong. Then, when examples were posted that demolished his ludicrously broad assertion, he disappeared from the thread.

And now, he has the audacity to argue that those who actually understand the rap genre, at least to some degree, and exposed his thinly veiled racist views, should receive a "public rebuke"!

To riff off of the name of a popular Jim Carrey film, it’s Sad and Sadder.

You have to go way back to understand this. We will start with one simple fact, men and women are different. They have different physiology and different instincts. Men have to be strong and powerful. They have to win or they are dead. This is the way we evolved. Men have to be strong and vicious. Vicious means loud and colorful. The idea is to scare the crap out of your enemy. Study ancient cultures. 
Women on the other hand being as a group smaller and weaker survive by being smart, quiet and good at hiding. Women hate noisy situations. They can not hear danger coming. They have to be up high so they can see danger coming. Just ask any women why they like SUVs and they will tell you they like being up higher, makes them feel safer. Men have to be powerful and loud. Not only do noisy situations make women feel uncomfortable but because their ear canals are smaller they are more sensitive to high pitch sounds and distortion. My wife is my favorite distortion meter. When things are nice and clean she will tolerate much higher volumes. When she complains about the volume if I switch to a BBC (Gundry) curve she is happier even if I do not change the volume. My daughters are the same way but my son in law is a true rocker, turn it up!  You also see differences in the music the sexes like. Women are more interested in emotional content, men in abstract music. Go to a King Crimson concert and you will see perhaps 10 women in the entire crowd.
Our need to be bigger, better and scarier is probably the force behind the need for ever better performance. Our problem is bigger and better is interpreted by expense. If I can buy more expensive gear it makes me bigger, better and scarier which makes us happy. Thus we buy ever more ridiculously priced equipment. Thank you Mark Levinson for figuring this out! On the other hand this makes for a healthy used market. 

my wife will join.

The dearth of females into our hobby is something I've thought about for years, even posting about it on this site. Women don't appreciate music any less. But when it comes to the gear, they don't seen to care. The WAF (wife acceptance factor)  has become a long-running joke. Maybe it's for the same reason that fields such as engineering have only recently been open to and attracted more females. Perhaps years of socialization are at work here. Women were either discouraged and/or intimidated by what they perceived as too technical to pursue. I've yet to have either a girlfriend or wife to care much about my gear. These were smart women (my first wife had an IQ of 155). The gear just held little or no interest for them.   

@ghasley

My God, at least he answered the question rather than attacking someone. And for the record, I agree with ncbassplayer. 

My wife couldn't be more different than me, in culture, religion, politics or interest. She is all woman and understands we have different hobbies. I help her with her plants, vintage furniture, learning woodworking and watching murder mysteries while she tolerates my (ugly to her) music system. 

She does, however, love the sound but it isn't something she sits and listens to so we have smaller systems in the garage and yard for her to enjoy while doing stuff. I recently bought her an AirPod Mini system for the bathroom/ closet and she is in love with the looks AND sound.

My wife enjoys our system as much as I do. She doesn’t care much about the gear though and isn’t happy about the $$$ spent to get it. 

It comes down to males are generally more interested in things and females are more interested in people. This is why you see more male than female engineers and more female than male nurses. 

In this country women got the vote a hundred years ago. Think about that for a moment.
 
Systemic sexism exists despite MC's love of the "divine individual." His argument drips irony and lacks historical context, not to mention him parroting party/media thinkspeak. 

More women would be interested in audio gear if cultural and educational bias was addressed. 

Nonsense! Please dont use the word systemic..anything. And exactly who is parroting the flavor of the day? 

Who’s to say the cause and effect regarding a problem no one really wants to or cares to fix. Anyone who has been to any of the many audio shows pre-covid need not wonder why there aren’t more females interested in the “hobby”. 
A few day work strippers holding cables, a few silly cars usually in a color few should hope to emulate. Attending a show answers alot of questions though, for insatance “who buys these shoes with velcro straps”, “where have all the dad-jeans gone” and “Who is this dude referring to in the song Keith dont go and why”. Seriously though, women enjoy music equally as much as men but they just dont need all the ocd bs and locker room commentary. Nor do many gentlemen for that matter.

In what world does this even make sense:

So you want to attract more women, you got your work cut out for you. A public rebuke of the people who contributed to the rap threads will be a start. 

In order to attract more women to the audio hobby someone needs to string up the contributors to a rap thread on Audiogon? This forum = the hobby as a whole? Women don’t listen to rap? 

On other audio forums, Audiogon is a joke. Women not only consume rap but also make it. 

Goodness what a lot of opinions.

I am a female audiophile. My reasons are the same as men's -- I love music, and a good system makes it so much more enjoyable and engaging.

As for why there are not more female audiophiles -- well, the attitudes expressed here have a lot to do with it. Women are hyper-aware of where they are welcome and where they are not. If they sense that it's a "boy's club" and that they are going to be made to feel uncomfortable, they are going to shy away.

I attended an audio society meeting in my area for the first time a couple of years ago -- it was intimidating. I walked in as a new person, and the person signing me in asked me "who are you with?" It was assumed that I was the wife or girlfriend of someone who was already there.

Most of the people there were very nice. But the "barriers to entry" are huge for most women, who do not want to be the unicorn, regarded as an oddity.

That said, I hope more women do get involved. Some of the comments here, full of stereotypes and assumptions, are an indication that too many audiophiles have not encountered any actual women in the context of their hobby, and it would be a healthy thing if they did!

@towertone - sums up my wife pretty well too.
She'll play background music while she's working on something.

Almost the only time she will sit still are if we are out listening to live music at events, like one we're probably going to this coming week. It is nice to see her dressed up (I often think it's to look good in front of the other ladies).

I must admit that going to listen to live music, especially unmiked, it really calibrates the mind to what music and singing actually sounds like in the flesh.

Guys, as a woman who loves music first and equipment second, I can offer a few hints. First women are nervous about being in all male environments where trash talk could hurt. For the record, the way that @oldhvymec and @millercarbon talk about women counts as hurtful. Remember that the culture of sexism that reigned when you were growing up in the 1940s or 1950s is over. Just like the culture of racism is hopefully ending.
I remember reading comments on a Steve Guttenberg YouTube asking about why there were so few women audiophiles. For the most part, guys were very respectful but some wrote comments like “they are in the kitchen where they belong.” Even a few posts like that are enough to push a lot of women out of the forum.”
I appreciate guys that actually asked their wives and daughters. Just a show of respect rather than answering based on your own experience. Your experience is of you, not others. Be curious.

Terrific feedback and thrilled to have two wonderful women in the fold. The average IQ here spiked and Audiogon is a better place due to your presence. Continued happy listening and please do start a thread on a topic that interests you. Be well.

I’m still sticking with my white socks and sandals theory. Add plaid shorts, a Hawaiian shirt, and a slide rule in the pocket and the picture becomes even clearer.

Frank

o-papa

i have a lady friend for you to meet

she is currently chief product designer for birkenstock

#periodt

@atanarjuat99

Thank you for your thoughtful contribution. It would be nice if the specific members whom you mentioned would reflect, and possibly change their behavior, but it's difficult to avoid cynicism.

In any case, I hope to read more of your contributions – on any topic – in the future.

And then ghasley makes things worse by being patronizing. A participant from an unusual demographic should be treated no differently than the typical "nerd" man. Sorry but IQ remains the same, although a new perspective is welcome. Ladies please avoid speaking for women, but instead speak for yourself! 

@audition__audio I actually didn't intend to be patronizing to the two brave souls who posted and I doubt seriously they felt patronized. I intended to be kind and welcoming.

If I somehow offended you by doing so, it wasn't my intent.

Coming back to this thread and reading it to the end further convinces me that it was a real misogynist who had my 1st post removed.

All the best,
Nonoise

ghasley,

No offense taken. Ten years ago I wouldnt have thought anything about your post, but these days I am getting extremely sensitive to politically correct commentary. Truthfully the problem is probably more with me.

@audition__audio No worries. I know where you are coming from. I miss the days where people could disagree agreeably! Sounds simple but it isn't. Lot's of things sting and offend these days when they probably shouldn't.

Some might think taxes should be raised to feed the homeless or fight a war, others might think they already pay enough taxes and we should all agree there is middle ground to have a conversation. 

 +1 mijostyn

He nails it.  I believe that the technology around us is evolving exponentially faster than we as a species are.  My Victrola is just over 100 years old, its an amazing little piece that many people enjoyed at the time.  The only commonality with current systems is that it reproduces recorded music.

Me thinks that our millions of years of evolution can't simply be brushed aside.  Certainly we can be aware and hopefully enough to squeak out another hundred or so years.

Time to go listen to DSOTM.

Regards,
barts

As far as women not being paid as much as men is a myth.
also, just different interest.....
You could say the juxtaposition of this is sewing clubs...
No exclusion just different interest..

Thank you @atanarjuat99 and @theo714 for showing up.

Comments in your posts included;

"For the most part, guys were very respectful,"

and,

"Most of the people there were very nice."

If you have any interest in hanging out to learn stuff, ask questions, or just banter, then I suggest building on those positive experiences you described.  You are as welcome here as anyone else.  If you find a bad apple along the way, don't let it spoil the bushel.  Set an example.  Help the folks here understand how to attract more female audiophiles.  Bring your friends.  We could use the diversity.

If you want to really see why the vast majority of women shun the hobby, just get into a crowded elevator at any audio show and just take a good look around. 

Frank

"...I attended an audio society meeting in my area for the first time a couple of years ago -- it was intimidating..."

My wife asked me to take her car in for service. She said the dealer takes advantage of me because I'm a woman. I assured her that her sex has nothing to do with it, car dealers take advantage of everyone. 

@russ69 My wife says the same thing but car dealers don't take advantage unless its easy. They size people up which is why in my business we secret shop and punt someone predisposed to treating others that way.

@dronepunk My wife was an executive at a money center bank (one of the predecessors to JPMorgan Chase). Unequal pay for equal work continues at every level of society. What we are witnessing though with the way commerce has changed over the past 10-15 years combined with the warp speed change forced by the pandemic is the barriers to change are getting blown to pieces. Witness Bumble vs Match. I use neither because I am happily married but Bumble is the answer to the question of when are things going to change?

The unequal pay is just a story created by the ------.

If you are salaried worker and given raises for job performance, eventually, the salary gap will continue to grow, compared to women who usually have less seniority. Same credentials (if that is even possible) and time of service the amount of the paycheck is a toss up.

If we are talking about union jobs they all pay the same based on job classification.

Woman tend to gravitate to the jobs that are more civilized while men take the crap jobs. Ever see a woman garbage "person" ?

ozzy

@ozzy "Just a story"? It was still unequal 10 years ago for objectively equal work/experience. The gap has closed and in many organizations affirmative steps were taken. I hope the trend continues. In exceptional organizations, it is almost a distant memory. Almost. It wasn't that long ago that the rationalization was "the man has a family to support" which was BS then and now.

The story continues...

ozzy

It’s perfect, really. It couldn’t be more obvious. A female audiophile chimes in and after more than twenty posts following hers there is only one with any kind of acknowledgment; never mind, engagement for further thoughts from her.

Welcome, theo714! Could you please elaborate on your thoughts and on some of the stated (presumed) “reasons” expressed so far? What could male audiophiles do to be more welcoming? Have you found a connection between this attitude and the stances taken on favorite audio topics such as “subjectivity vs objectivity”, obsessive tweaking, music? Or, any related things that come to mind?

Thanks, and welcome again.

This thread taught me two things. 1. Audiophiles (male) are the utmost authority on the female psyche. 2. I must not be an Audiophile ...

Because audiophile listening at home is essentially a non-social, isolated, individualistic pastime. 

However women are social animals, needing to converse, chat, hug, share, interact, etc. etc.

They just have no interest in spending so much time on a totally isolated, individualistic, non-sharing pastime.

@theo714 
@atanarjuat99 

thank you for your comments

you are welcome here and we are lucky have you among us in this lovely pursuit

ssmaudio & ncbassplayer have pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Like most things in life it comes down to the 80 - 20 rule.
80% of women are into breeding & yacking.
Anything that deviates from the trajectory of those orbits, either financially or chronologically is considered by them to be stupid.

As for the other 20% ..... IMHO that’s where value is found.

I wonder what Yuja Wang uses for a system.

Like most things in life it comes down to the 80 - 20 rule. 
80% of women are into breeding & yacking. 

This might well be the most impressive, terse combination of ignorance and insensitivity that I've ever come across.

Because even women who are nerdy enough do it better and more subtly. 

Over the last three years of posting in these forums, I have been called a “fool” a “clown” and my favorite, “a wedgie”.  I won’t name the fella who said “good riddance” to my beloved Timmy on his RIP page. ❤️🌹🌹❤️❤️
The collective Intellect of members who actively post can be overwhelming and the insults can fly!  🤬 
Perhaps more female audiophiles would feel comfortable posting if there were rules of engagement? 
Happy listening, gents ❤️🌹🥰