@ricevs the best jumpers are no jumpers. remove the back plate and combine mid-high wires to the wires on the bass binding post. You eliminate a lot of cheap metal in the signal path to boot. |
@jimob
I had the Spatial Audio X3 and sold them for the Cornwall IV.
Oz |
I'd be careful what you wish for with upgrades and parts. I've had several speakers with great parts that made my ears ache or ring when played at much lower than safe levels. Frequency has much more to it than can be easily measured. |
Yes, I have the X5 with ODAM caps (I got Clayton to try them) and the Cornwall IV. It is a tough call and I have to put the X5 back in the system in a couple of weeks when the Cornwalls are completely run in with the new caps and resistors. Again, it really depends on what sort of sound you are after. The X5 are just dead accurate and they don't editorialize at all. The bass is phenominal. The Corwalls...horns are fun and these now have all the attributes of horn speakers, and the bad things are gone. First thing I did when I got them was make a set of jumpers for the two rear terminals out of some nice 12 gauge Duelund I had on hand. Never listened to the stock jumper plates.....
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I am running Duelund speaker cables and made jumpers of the same.
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from above:
I'd be careful what you wish for with upgrades and parts. I've had several speakers with great parts that made my ears ache or ring when played at much lower than safe levels. Frequency has much more to it than can be easily measured.
Trust me, the difference between the stock crossover parts, plus the damping of horns and woofer frames, plus the isolation from the floor on even the cheapo rubberized cork pads.... all of these make the speaker FAR better than the stock one. Not even close to my ear. The stock version is very dynamic, but it is a tad bright. These changes actually improve detail, realism, tone and imaging, and eliminate the brightness. I know people with stock ones don't think they are bright, but they are way better this way and retain all of the things you love about them, and you dont' realize they are bright until you get those cheap caps and and resistors replaced with much better parts. My 2 cents, enjoy your Cornwalls, however they are:). |
Jumper and speaker cables related.
I have Blue Jean bi-wired banana speaker wires connected between integrated tube amp to CW IV then occasionally switch out to Audio Research LS2 + Parasound A21 to CW IV with two pairs of Taralab Continuum spade speaker wires to the CW IV.
Is it okay to leave both speakers connected to both amps but has one amp turned off while running the other? Would it cause any damage to speakers or amp? or create extra impendent and cause other side effect? |
DO NOT DO THIS!!! The amp that is not ON will receive the power from the amp that is ON to its output terminals NOT GOOD. You will end up letting the magic smoke out of most likely multiple components. |
Agree, the proper way is with a speaker switch. You can hook the two amps to a switch box and then have one set of leads to the speakers. Toggle amps that way |
Thank you. I will look into speaker switch. |
Just an update with probably around 250 hours. I am often times pulled out of my office chair to walk out and listen to these. They are a clear preference for me over the O/93's I owned for 8 months.
One thing I look for in a speaker is excitement without fatigue. They have great presence but aren't hyped up in the 2-4k frequency range- that annoys me with many speakers. Strings are starting to really pop out in the room after more break in..
They play big and I can easily listen with peaks in the mid 90db range at listening position with no fatigue or ringing in my ears afterwards.
The bass is impressive but I do notice with certain music that the low 30's and 20's are missing. The thing is the bass is really engaging so I'm fine with it. I've owned speakers that played deeper but with less engagement through the ranges, and I became bored with them. Or some speakers you crank for the bass and are screamed at with the mids and highs. These have a way of being relaxed and exciting at the same time, which is rare. Effortless might be the word.
So many unique preferences with audio, so my priorities might not be yours. They are big but any speakers take up a certain percentage floor space unless they're cramped. The front port makes them easier to position. I have them toed in so I can barely see the inside edges from the ideal seat. It's been a fun journey so far.
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Thanks for the report. Glad these are working out for you.
Oz |
@bjesien great, thanks for your report! How big is your room?
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@arthur1260 room is 14 by 26 but open to a larger space. I put all my speakers on the short and long wall but typically end up on the long wall with one close to a corner about 10 feet back from listening position. |
Thanks, that’s way bigger than my 9x13. Testing the Heresy now, they’re very good as well! |
That pretty much sums up the cornwall IV. Lots of fun, a wee bit bass shy at the very bottom, but you can live with it because the bass is very fast and tuneful. Yes, I would say they run out of steam somewhere in the 35 Hz range. Would have to measure and I really don't want to bother to set up to do it.
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Don while you are performing your next surgery on these why don’t you cut some ports in the back and see what happens. It would be interesting to hear what some reinforcement would do. Have any of you compared these to a pair of Ardens? I’ve seen the Chev comparisons but it seems the Arden would be the competitor at least in size and specs. |
Hi
No, I am not modding the cabinets at all. Right now I have just damped the horns and woofer frames, and really improved the crossovers with far better parts. If I ever wanted to sell the speakers I have not devalued them in any way, but rather I have improved them. Cutting holes= end of value. I will say that putting ODAM caps in and putting the pathaudio (or other fine resistor I suspect) is a big difference.
No never heard a Tannoy of any sort. Right now I need to put the spatial x5 back in at some point and compare. Two completely different solutions, both with their strengths. The Cornwalls are fun and they do pretty much everything right, but they do bottom out at the very, very low end. Really it isn't an issue. I hate subs as they are tough to integrate and there is always the temptation to fool with them, but a pair of subs to just get you 20-40 Hz reinforcement would do it. You hardly need them with the cornwalls, just on a few tracks that have a lot of energy in the really low end. A piano lowest note is 28 Hz as I recall. The X5 integrated subs were perfect. Once the woofer surrounds loosened up I dialed them down a wee bit and never touched them. Clayton has it worked out.
Still, as you have discovered, the cornwall IV is just tons of fun and you really have to ask yourself if you need a better speaker. Just enjoy the music and don't worry about it. Put a good tube system in front of them and be happy. If you do bother to improve the crossover parts you will hear it, but they are quite nice stock. |
I tried the Tannoy Cheviot in my room, bass was indeed big, but everything else was worse than both Forte IV and Heresy IV. Forte bass was quite on par with Cheviot |
I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the Forte IV.... I've had mine since February and love them....
I think the Cornwall are well worth the money if space allows. Seems like a lot of happy owners in this thread |
Forte IV are very unforgiving of bad recordings unlike the Cornwall IV. If you listen to Classic Rock for example you can forget about the Forte.
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Hersey are nice with low powered tube amps also, one could do better though than any Klipsch speaker.
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I have heard both the Forte and Cornwall. The Forte is a tricky one as it feels like it needs more space than the Cornwall, maybe due to the passive radiator. So for me other than price I would take the Cornwall and if you can afford $4500 you probably can afford $6000. |
If I was in the USA I would ask for a good deal and probably get away with 4500+tax for Cornwall IV, however in Switzerland you pay 8k. That’s why I wanted to test them but were too big for my car. I ended up testing them in a demo room, together with Heresy, and I was amazed about how close the heresy came for less than half price. Indeed the Forte were very revealing of bad recordings and placement was difficult because of the radiator! |
Arthur you could just put big woofers in your car and park it in your living room!
In my experience you likely don’t have to worry about the size of these in your room. They’re big because they’re efficient, and that’s not representative of the amount of “breathing room” that they need. Very easy to place.
Where your tannoys, the older or newer models? I’ve always been intrigued by the tannoys buy I’ve never heard them. Sometimes when I hear a speaker is relaxed or a little dark that usually means the midrange is weak. I’d appreciate your thoughts.
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The new Tannoy Cheviot! I really did not enjoy them, hard to explain why. There was a lot missing in the mids and highs, wasn’t for my taste. |
@donsachs ,
Hi Don! I started to put together a parts list to modify the crossover caps. I like VCAP much. I've used their CuTFs before. Can you shed some light on where one could cut corners a bit to save cost? The reason I ask is that the mods you did come up to $896 in caps--
All values *2 loudspeakers
2.7 uF $87
2.2 uF $84
6.8 uF $101
1.5 uF $82
4 uF $94
I may do the VCAP ODAMs on 2.7, 2.2 and 6.8 and try something more affordable on the other values.
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@earlflynn, you say, "Hersey are nice with low powered tube amps also, one could do better though than any Klipsch speaker."
Can you explain what you are saying here? I'm confused as to your point and the context for your experience. Thanks! |
It is just a rant from someone with little to no experience with klipsch speakers in an optimum setting. Nothing to see here …………
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That what his aunt say when his uncle come out of room with cousin girlfriend in heat moment and he realize his daddy his uncle. |
Oz, you are correct.
tubebuffer, you have a way with words. |
Not in the English language he doesn't... |
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I wasn't even looking for new speakers ....but I couldn't pass up a generous trade in.... if not for that I would still be enjoying my Heresy.
I think many here who trash Klipsch haven't heard the Heritage models of late. You either love em or hate em..... but no need to trash them
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Quick update. I’m now some 4 months into my Cornwall IV adventure and they continue to surprise and delight. Amp pairing has been interesting. I’ve used 100w Class A solid state, 36w EL84 push-pull, 18w 6L6GC push-pull, 10w EL84 push-pull, 3.5w 2A3 SET, and now 300B SET. All have been various shades of good to great, but the winner by several lengths... 300B! To my ears, in my room, with my ancillaries, this is the tube. Only 8 watts but it’s more than enough to fully energize my challenging 650+ sq/ft space while giving me everything I want in timbre, tonal richness, layering, and other SET beauties. Dynamics are superb. Bass is visceral. All the technical audiophile stuff there, plus the emotional engagement with the artistry of the musicians that I found lacking just a bit with other tubes and topologies (except the 2A3, but it simply did not have enough power). This is where I’ll stay. It is some of the best sound I’ve had, which I did not expect from a $6K speaker, let alone one made by Klipsch! Live and learn.
Thanks to all, but especially @jayrossi13 and @dbarger , whose posts about their success with 300B amps and these speakers nudged me down this road.
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@wrm57 very cool, thanks for sharing! Could you let us know which 300B are you using? I’m guessing not all 300B are equal:-) |
I picked up a used Luxman MQ-300, an unusually good incarnation. But I think most well-designed SETs using this tube would be suited to the Cornwalls. I’d been skeptical that 8 watts would be adequate but it’s just right; and the rich midrange textures of the 300B are ideal for the Cornwall. These speakers can do nuance and delicacy as well as they do dynamics, and that’s a wonderful combo--right up SET ally. One of the things I like most about SET amps is they way they release the music to you rather than push it at you. I think the Cornwalls tend to push a bit, themselves, so amps that mitigate that tendency work best, at least in my survey of various amps. I’ve never tried a single-ended pentode amp but I’d assume it would behave similarly to a SET and sound pretty great on these speakers, too.
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Thanks! I was SET on the Decware SE84UFO25, but still not sure. It uses neither of those typical tubes. The Audiophiliac liked it with the CW4. The Feliks 300B seems also quite good. Hard choices:) |
I thought about both those amps, read a little about them. Personally, I don't think 2 watts is enough for the CW. I have a good 2A3 amp that puts out 3.5w or so. It sounds great at low volume but can't fill my space. Steve G thinks the CW4/Decware is a great combo, though. You might, too.
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Haven’t had a chance to demo the cw iv yet, curious how the soundstage height is? I currently have a pair of smaller maggies (mg12), and the height of the cornwalls, I think 38 inches or so, is substantially shorter.
thanks |
I would like to offer another low output tube option. I am using an Aric Audio Super 88/150 SE and it is a great amp. It can use many different output tubes, but configured with EL34s as I am using it, the rated power is 12 watts/channel. Aric Kimball is a great designer and this is one of the best tube amps I have owned. He is very accessible and loves to talk about his products and his philosophy.
This amp is a wonderful match for the Cornwall IV.
Oz |
Ozzy, that's a single-ended amp?
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from above:
Hi Don! I started to put together a parts list to modify the crossover caps. I like VCAP much. I've used their CuTFs before. Can you shed some light on where one could cut corners a bit to save cost? The reason I ask is that the mods you did come up to $896 in caps-- All values *2 loudspeakers 2.7 uF $87 2.2 uF $84 6.8 uF $101 1.5 uF $82 4 uF $94 I may do the VCAP ODAMs on 2.7, 2.2 and 6.8 and try something more affordable on the other values.
I used the VCap ODAM because I build a lot of tube gear and they sound better than anything I have ever heard. I have never liked the sound of the teflon caps much. Others have different tastes and that is how it should be. I get OEM pricing on the VCaps because I buy a lot of them. But I cannot sell them under that agreement, only use them for my builds. The retail price starts to go down at quantity 2, but yes, they are expensive little devils! Honestly, the stock caps in the crossover appear to be typical MKP caps. I cannot say how good they are. I put caps in that I know are as good as anything out there and I could hear quite a difference. Also, getting the sand resistor out of there matters a lot too. I used the pathaudio ones at about $25 each, but even a nice Mills or something would be better. The 2.75, 2.25, and 7 uF values are the most important ones for the caps. I left the big one alone as it is just across the woofer. You could probably leave the others alone as well. The three above values are directly in series with the mid and high drivers. I am not sure if something more affordable would be better than what is there now for the other values, I really don't know. I had all but the largest value in stock for the ODAM so I used them. For cheaper options, the multicaps have always been good reliable ones, as well as the mundorf supremes, but not sure these are much better than what it is there now, since they are not labelled and I didn't measure them. The oil filled mundorfs are about as expensive as the vcaps and the I prefer the VCap ODAM to anything mundorf. Again, we all have our tastes.... Lots of folks like Duelunds and I also like the Miflex KPCU, but both are huge for the value and would not fit, and I prefer the ODAM to any of them. |
Guys,
Get out your notebooks and record what Don Sachs is telling you, you're not going to get such detailed info from anyone who has the knowledge and experience that Don has... 👍
Wig |
Thank you Don for the follow-up.
I opened them up today to take a look around and damp the mid horn and tweeter. As an aside, the damping made a real difference. I was not surprised as I damped my Forte IIIs and it helped materially there too.
You are fortunate to be able to take advantage of vendor/quantity discount pricing with Chris (Good guy by the way). I used VCap CuTFs in a Primaluna integrated that I modified. They, along with Audyn copper, worked superbly. I sold the amp, nevertheless, as while I improved it I found something that I found to be a better match for the CW IVs.
I think I may wait 6 months and do the cap upgrade with the ODAMs--to give me time to allocate funds. The size of the ODAMs alone is likely to save me some real headaches.
With regard to the Path Audio resistors, their size seems to be a decent fit over the ceramic stock ones. I don’t know the manufacturer of the ceramic stock resistors and, unlike some folks, I do not believe that ceramic cast resistors are necessarily bad, poor sounding, etc.
Finally, I need to figure out and understand (just my nature) the function, application and wiring concerning that third wire on the Path Audio resistor. Is it some kind of ground or drain? What does it do and where does it link to, if anywhere? Any intel will be appreciated but I know folks are busy. I'll try to learn about this on my own. |
that is just a drain wire on the pathaudio resistor. You don't even have to connect it if you don't care to. I tied the two of them together and then soldered to woofer ground input. They fit easily on the board |
Thank you Don! Perfect information. |
Yes, thanks Don. I was puzzling over this myself.
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According to their site it is basically a shielded resistor. I have no idea why that would be necessary, but anyway there is no hum of any sort, the speaker sounds great, I didn't change the values of any parts so the crossover functions as it always has, just sounds better. |
