I hope you have a subwoofer integration and management tool? cos plopping subs in a room, should help but is ideal to be meticulous as this is physics and not vibes
So yes, two extra subs are more than welcome but you gotta do it right
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Just a question of what you want out of your system / what kind of music do you listen to. Typically subwoofers are carefully feathered in at the frequency of the main speakers have the bass drop off and just make up for the small volume and lower frequencies. So the optimal output from subwoofers is very very small. Typically when I go into a system with a subwoofer or two, the first thing I have to do is turn them down to like 10% output. Since many folks have them turned up way too much.... if they are too lond it screws up the imaging, hides much of the midrange, and throws off the balance of the music. If you are looking for high fidelity, it is unlikely more subwoofers are a good use of money... other components could be upgraded. Two, carefully integrated is great... extend the soundstage.,.. more probably not. Perhaps you listen to some kind of music like the guys in the cars that you can hear a block away from the bass... or this is for home theater to make depth charges shake the foundation. Then never mind. |
When I ran Dahlquist DQ10’s with double Dahlquist subwoofo, the placement turned out to be important for the best imaging. Low frequencies are supposed to be non-directional, but I think it matters depending on your crossover point and the steepness of the high filtering. I thought two worked much better than one for integration, but it made for a physically unwieldy system. I simplified my system, getting rid of the subwoofers when I changed speakers, as I found the system more cohesive and imaging better, even though I lost the bottom half octive. |
You might find some of the this helpful. |
This too-clever-by-half comment is not that clever. It reflects a misunderstanding of why multiple subs are helpful. It’s about the room’s acoustics. It depends a lot on the room (see comment in next paragraph about measuring). Having three subwoofers isn’t about more bass, but achieving a more articulate and even bass response throughout your room. A single subwoofer creates "hot spots" and "nulls," leading to muddy or boomy or weak bass. Multiple, strategically placed subwoofers smooth out these peaks and dips, providing tight, detailed, and clear bass across a wider listening area. You should be prepared to put them where the sound is best, not where they "look good." The goal is audio balance not visual symmetry or prettiness. You will need to learn a little. Measurement and Digital Signal Processing (DSP) are essential. Using a microphone (UMik) and software (REW, for example) can help measure your room to reveal problem areas. DSP then allows precise equalization and time alignment for each subwoofer, ensuring they work harmoniously. I recommend Rythmik sealed subs as better options than REL, e.g. They are more flexible (adjustable phase, for one) and more economical. |
The answer is “yes, but….” For 2 channel audio, Smoother Frequency Response: Multiple subwoofers can help to even out the bass response across the listening area, reducing peaks and nulls (dead spots) that are common with a single subwoofer. The second subwoofer makes a huge difference, but each subwoofer added afterwards yields increasingly smaller benefits. So yes, each added subwoofer benefits a smoother frequency response, “but” is adding 2 more subwoofers better than spending the funds somewhere else for greater sonic benefit…..? |
Uhm what will be a better purchase than a subwoofer to combat room mode stacking and helping fill some nulls of the initial sub system?
Cos nothing bought outside of some broadband absorption is going to be more important than bass management via a multi sub system in giving your system a greater sonic benefit and that's physics. Can't run around that with voodoo purchases
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@janewyman, good read see here and here! Mike |
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Todd Welti is one of the foremost experts on subwoofers, and his top choice is four subs placed at the midpoint of all four walls. But he also said two subs at the midpoint of either the front/back or side walls is still very good. I’d start with that for placement and use something like a miniDSP/REW to do the fine tuning. I’d recommend reading Welti’s work to see his research that led to his conclusions. I think this video hits on a lot of the key points if you’re more of a visual learner. Hope this helps, and best of luck. |
I recall a few years back when a respected engineer concluded that the "optimum" number of subwoofers in a space is .... fourteen!! That’s only about a dozen more than most mortals can cram into a space. Not to mention budget and "wife acceptance factor." But, boy, just about every square inch of the room would be "the sweet spot" -- as far as the low end is concerned. Back in the days of serious car audio competition (yes, SQ was a factor in the EARLY days) the folks at Rockford Fosgate came up with what they referred to as "transfer function." They sent plans on how to build a small tower bass enclosure that would sit in the driver’s seat with the woofer located at the approximate driver’s (the one that aims the vehicle, not the raw speaker) ear level. Then, induce a bass signal into the box and physically move a mic around the vehicle. The loudest measurement was the best place to put the woofer. Often, we had to choose "Plan B" due to the impossible logistics of building an enclosure in the ideal location. (Like where the passenger likes to place her Kohl’s shopping bag). It’s kinda of the "crawl around the room and see what happens" process -- in reverse. Those with a little time on their hands might want to try this, just for fun. Or, use room analysis software, which would be faster, more accurate, but less fun. Nobody invites friends over for "room correction" parties. As an alternative, having 7 of your closest friends moving about on hands and knees to see who wins the "I found the hot spot!" competition would be far more entertaining.
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In my last house, I had 2 subs integrated very well after many, many REW sweeps and sub placement, settings, etc. Flat down to 20Hz before any sort of roll-off. Then I got a god deal on another sub and I thought adding it would/ could(?) make the system better. After much experimentation and testing, the third sub did nothing at all for that system. I only had a few areas I could place another sub and none of them offered any sort of advantage. So I guess the answer is, it depends. As usual around here. |
These are two pretty good articles that Mike linked for you. Not to speak for Mike, but the first one, possibly a bit dated, appears to explain why sub to main speaker integration is so critical and the best way to accomplish the job is with an electronic crossover, preferably one with DSP. I personally agree with this solution. There are, of course, other ways of doing integration that are simpler and cheaper, but they are also more limiting. The second article attempts to show how using multiple subs can improve the bass response of your system especially when used with an electronic crossover with DSP. It also has excerpts from a study by Todd Welti that was devised to determine the optimal amount of subs in a system and the best location for them in a room. The link to the full study results, which may be easier to understand, is the first link that I posted in my first post. (See post #6 above) There is also a segment in Mike’s second article that talks about how room modeling software can help to determine the best locations for your subs in your room. There is a lot of good information in the responses above and most of it is fairly similar, so if you are not getting the information you thought you would or were looking for, you may want to re-word your question so we can give you better responses. |
Subwoofers in the corners? See here 😎 Mike |
what are your approximate levels on your current subs? the reason i ask is that if they are on the low side of the range, adding two more subs could over power your room. I assume that for music you do not want to increase the relative volume compared to the rest of the music, in which case you will want to decrease the level of the original subwoofers. adding two more subs will give most of the room subwoofer impact at higher frequencies and more rumble headroom, not just the sweet spot or near wall boundaries.
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I will stick with what the manufacturer of my subs recommends. https://rel.net/blogs/learn-and-explore/tune-rel-video-series |
Avanti1960 SVS allows returns, no questions asked, within 60 days. If I cannot get the new subs to synchronize and complement the existing setup, I will simply return them. It does seem more complicated than I anticipated, but it will give me a challenge and something to do on these hot summer days ahead.. |
My recollection is that most believe there is a very noticeable improvement going from 2 to 3 subs and a bit more going to four, but after that pretty much diminishing returns. Todd Welti is The Man when it comes to multi-subwoofer system set-up and his Harman Kardon article is well worth reading. While there is a bit of science to it, you can also do pretty well by randomly placing a sub along each wall. I strongly recommend using REW to help guide your replacement. Sometimes the flattest frequency response worsens room modes, which I think are far more onerous. I have a version of the Audio Kinesis Swarm and the benefits are significant. My system pics graphically show the differences between subs on and subs off for both frequency response and room modes. My system is all analog and I imagine DSP could flatten it even more. Imaging and depth are also improved and even more so if you can go stereo.
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