There certainly are a great many firm opinions expressed ton the topic of power cords/conditioners. I suggest that experience beats opinion every time. For power cord doubters, there are 5 foot, 10 gauge, shielded power cords available on Amazon for $50 ish each. $50 is cheap for fancy power cords. So I tried some. They improved the transparency or clarity or "revealed micro details" on both an Elekit 8600R (300B tubes, 9 wpc) system and a system using PuriFi's glorious 200 wpc output modules (used in NAD's new power amp and integrated). Three more cords will arrive today, says Amazon. Don't you think it's worth a try? I think it's the sheilding removing ultra sonic garbage from the power lines. Whatever it is, it works in my systems. I don't need to know exactly WHY if it improves the system. $50, how can you lose?
If Power Cords Don't Matter...
First of all, I don’t own any high-end power cords, mostly because I can’t fit them behind my rack. Second, I am not trying to stir up controversy, as you will see from my question. I understand that the people who believe power cords make no difference argue that once the power gets into the component, the AC is converted to DC and the power supply of the component takes over completely. I think I have that right for the most part. So it that’s true, and it probably is from a traditional EE standpoint, why is it that I have not heard anyone say that power conditioners make no difference? I am not aware of anyone with a decent system ever saying that a Niagara or Triton or Audience teflon conditioner didn’t affect their sound, for good or for bad. So if the EE theory is true, wouldn’t power conditioners make no difference either? I have an Audience AR6T for almost 10 years and I think it made a big difference. BTW - I am not talking about Power Plants, which deal with voltage stabilization, which is a different topic. Obviously, if your AC voltage is way off, it's going to cause problems.
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Give me placebos, or give me death! I have repeatedly called on our valuable electrician freaks to publish the tests proving lamp cord equal to Synergistic Galileo. Why are they hiding these definitive tests that would save all of us so much money? Maybe there’s a placebo effect that makes cheap stuff sound great? Sign me up! |
When I got back into this hobby I addressed the power cord and cable issue myself with a trial of Shunyata Venom to stock power cables. The Venom series is Shunyata’s entry level, but contains their core technology. The difference was not subtle. The clarify and black background were very apparent. I don’t think it was placebo. Now, having said that does one need to spend a fortune optimizing their power cables and conditioners. No. There are in my opinion diminishing returns that depend on your gears, room and your hearing. So do you need to go up to Shunyata’s Sigma or Omega levels. For me, no. For someone else, their hearing, their gear and their room, possibly. However for most folks I think benefits will become unnoticeable in the mid range somewhere and that will require an in home trial. Additionally, having tried a bunch of cables from different companies, I think that one can follow some basic guidelines and get good performing power cables for less money. Try and get good oxygen free conductors. Get the largest gauge you can. Good connectors and shielding around the conductors. I recently tried the top line power cable from Pangea and I think it faired no worse than the AQ Tornados and Shunyata Deltas I normally use. The Pangeas are a fraction of the cost. So I think one can get improvements over stock cables without breaking the bank. But I do think in my experience that good power cables perform better than stock. |
Totally 🥜 Nuts , I owned a Audio store until 09 and without question a quality power cords improves the audio in several areas ,we have done blind comparisons with bunches of different power cords. .I have dedicated 20 amp lines awg10 with 4 wire 2-Dual grounds ,one common ground, the other a insulated isolated ground which makes a very noticeable improvement ,copper gold AC outlets , vs the garbage $3 brass zinc outlets in most house and the oxide they produce as well as any cheap power cord ,try taking Isopropyl alcohol on a paper towel ,see how much oxide comes off ,which is detail robbing for sure . a very respectable power cord still improves several areas ,even different brand power cords have their own Sonic characteristics. if this were not the case ,then why don’t everyone just stick with the crappy stock power cord it comes with ? That’s my point !! |
I am not an Electrical Engineer, but I know enough to respect electricity. That being said, as my components within my systems were upgraded/improved, the differences and appreciation of power cords/conditioners etc. also greatly improved. However, if your audio rig is low fi it would be similar to putting high performance tires on a Yugo. (Are they still made?) It won’t matter. Sorry guys, all you need to do is experience what a quality power cord can provide in a quality system. Please leave out the $50 Amazon waste of money power cord versions and the long drawn tired comments about power cords don’t matter. Those comments are better stated on other websites. ozzy |
douglas_schroeder We will always have half the audiophile community who build poor systems.Huh? It seems to me that most audiophiles are fairly happy with their systems. Isn’t that what counts? The cable skeptics do so brilliantly.Do you think the cable skeptics represent half of the audiophile community? Or, perhaps, are they just a noisy minority? |
How do they work is my question? If a shielding worked then what about the distance from Hoover dam to the outlet? But then the last 5’ I need to run a $1000 cable? And with internet over power lines, it is not like the noise needs to be shielded from getting in… It can already be in there. It cannot be much lower resistance Do the high $ ones have more indictable or capacitance?Or do they use something that has an immeasurable quality? |
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@cleeds The latter. That’s my guess. Based on what I see on ALL audio forums, across the internet. The same usual people who post everywhere everyday. Sometimes they don’t even own any audio system Do you think the cable skeptics represent half of the audiophile community? Or, perhaps, are they just a noisy minority? |
I have found power cables make a difference more with some components than others. In the grand scheme of things, and with a fixed budget, I have found that money is best prioritized towards other aspects of your hifi system than power cords assuming you're at least starting with a basicly competent cable. |
It seems that nobody has mentioned the obvious. The cable manufacturers have found the way to 'manipulate' with the 'sound' of their power cables and (Cardas and Nordost for examp.) their power cables have 'house sound' as the rest of their products. (ic or speaker c.) Perhaps somebody with enough tecnical knowledge could try to explain that. For the rest, finding the best pc cord for some component is a process of trying many 'flavours' and even more when you need to wire the system, then it is like fine cousine, carefuly matching the 'ingridients' so that nothing 'stands out' |
I started with trying out a couple of low priced power cables from a Chinese manufacturer a few years back. I heard a difference. I slowly have replaced every PC I could. All of these were purchased used. I hear a difference with my ears. I would love to run higher end cables and conditioners, but the reality is, I’m only willing to chase the “dragon” so far. I have other hobbies,and retirement is right around the corner. I am a firm believer in all these things matter,and make a difference. |
That’s easily explained by Voodoo Science. @turnbowm Well let’s pretend that people actually DO hear a REAL difference. Then what is the causal mechanism that is happening? One would think that they could put a scope (or A2D) on the power coming out the end of that cord… and then actually see some things that are other than 60 Hz (or 50Hz) being removed. If I was able to see some high frequency noise on the bad cords, that was removed on the good cords, then it would be easier to imagine that that is a reason to believe in using a fancy power cable being worth having. But when I have to really on my ears alone, then it might be more cost effective for me to just go to a hypnotist… and then I could end up at the same level of happiness for a lot less $. (I still would not have nice looking cables, but then I would also not care.) If the manufactures are doing something good, then what is it?There most be some science driving their effort. Without some proof of it, then I am left to conclude that it must be voodoo or magic. Obviously I fall into the data group. That is not bad, it is just how it is. |
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@avitacom So if you want to improve the quality of current presented to these amplification devices, you would have to optimize components within the amp or preamp, the power transformer, rectifiier or voltage regulator, not add on external tweaks like boutique power cords or power conditioners. --------------------------------- Ok. A very practical advice. How come it never crossed my mind... Now. I have two amps - Lavardin IT and LTA Z40. Would you care to explain how exactly should I optimise the components within these amps and not turn these two wonderful fine-tuned devices with unique circuits into two useless boxes? |
Some people are so gullible, they feel the rain and open their umbrellas. Others are more sophisticated data people, they check the weather report and if it says dry, they act accordingly. Because they know weather reports are science and all the rest is just phychoacoustics. I'm in the roofing business, and if I follow the weather reports my insurance company would be paying for a lot of interior damage. |
One would think that they could put a scope (or A2D) on the power coming out the end of that cord… and then actually see some things that are other than 60 Hz (or 50Hz) being removed. This post won the award for the most simpleton-minded. |
This post won the award for the most simpleton-minded. The awards even for just participating, have been in news for a while:. https://novakdjokovicfoundation.org/participation-awards-good-or-bad/ And it looks like it is good to encourage the kids. |
Unless u have 12ga from fuse box to your stereo system, power cords will be,only snake oil. , 20ga thin basic wire from box to outlets in house, but add a 400$ power cord and the instruments are floating on a membrane of awesomness that whisks and makes everything just seem right... give me a break. Tried power cables, same, same, same! The 12” of $400 power cable from outlet to wall with .....let’s say over 150-200,feet from basement breaker box with 20ga wire and. Zmost use thinner wire for running to outlets. Put springs under your amp and preamp to take away microvibrations which cause the sound to get mumbled, but with the $90 springs the sound just floats into my ears, like a country slow moving stream. The audio is night and day difference. The music is so liquid, and sounds s msound ch better. |
arcticdeth, Why are you using 20 gauge wire? Are you describing something incorrectly? Almost all homes today use at least 14 gauge for most 15 amp circuit wire runs. Never heard of anyone using 20 gauge. For my 3 audio dedicated outlets, I ran 10 gauge wire each. Which was a pain to work with. millercarbon, I can’t imagine 4 gauge wire to snake through walls... ozzy |
The powersupply is like a heart, pumping out blood, and the powercable is the main artery leading in to it. That`s is why the quality of this last worm is moore detectable than the rest of the circuit. millercarbon: "I even swapped around gauge of wire with diameter of pipe. The analogy is darn near perfect. Voltage is exactly pressure. Just like water. We even call amps current.." Yep, this is a good analogy but still most audiophiles believe they can use a bundle of tight twisted straws and still end up with the same flow-capacity as a single wide pipe gives. miller again: " Fortunately I run 4ga all the way from the panel to the conditioner. So I got that one covered." That`s a good start, but what about your low-voltage secondary side; your speakercables++ |
Just got my new aftermarket power cord (10 awg with furtech connectors). While the cable looked impressive, I too was skeptical. Plugged it in, and to my surprise… WOW!!! the mid bass was noticeably more full and the bass detail was almost night and day. I’m sure my speakers were also now hitting lower frequencies. I was so impressed, that I gasped. I said to my wife (who couldn’t care less about my hifi passion), “can you notice a difference?” She said: “absolutely. I really can. Now stop talking about your dumb cable:)” It was so impactful that it felt like I replaced an entire component!!! NOTE: here’s the best deal in HIFI |
@jafant = Me? The thread got quite off topic, but that happens. I was asking why I don't hear an outcry from people who say power cords don't matter also saying power conditioners don't matter. If AC is AC, nothing in between the wall and the component should matter, absent something that does not allow the current to pass freely. We hear people all the time say power cords are BS, but usually not that power conditioners are BS. So that's it. We're on to the next thing, whatever that is. |
