I want to buy new speakers for 50,000 and see it used for 30,000, what should I do?
two issues here, would it be smarter to buy the used speakers not knowing where they’ve been or how hard they’ve been played or maybe there’s something wrong with them. And the other issue is what happens to the value of my speakers immediately after the box comes to my house. And I guess the third issue is, amI insane for buying $50,000 speakers.
It seems like I’ll be losing $20,000 immediately and of course probably a little more since if I ever sell they will need to be reduced further so used price can be 30,000 if a dealer is involved which they probably will be.
This raises a serious concern that very nice speakers are just too expensive.
Fortunately (and luckily) I’m not married so that makes this process a lot easier
@jpan , I used to wonder about this myself, but finally I just grew to accept it. There was another member who went by @jumia who used to do the same thing (posted about everything in amps/preamps). |
@tannoy56 ”…Do you realize that most of the opinions you’ve got is from members whose entire system cost less than that, and they should be asking you for an advise instead.”
Oh, I think you would be surprised how many folks here have good systems. You might take a walk through the virtual systems section of the forum.
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No reply from this OP after numerous suggestions here. I bought $25k PMC MB2SE from a doctor in Canada who had obviously looked after his system based on the many photos he shared. I paid less than half as he was looking for a quick sale. I’ve owned PMC before and these arrived well packed in original packaging. Shipping is another issue and ensuring palletising if necessary will give you peace of mind. Going to see the used one’s will provide you with a look at a home site versus a shop experience with burned in mature sound, while considering the room situation as a factor. Like others have said, make that visit and share your discovery with us here. |
1. What you expect from 50K speaker may also available in other low priced speaker, explore more. 2. Go to sellers Place, have audition and audit before buying expensive product.If happens to buy check how safely it will be packed and delivered to you. take experts assistance for the both evaluations. |
One of the single-store dealers in my region does quite well despite regularly offering 20-30% discounts on nearly every product he sells. The exceptions are the handful of lifestyle products he offers, like Sonos. He said there are simply too low of margins on those products to offer anything better than 10% off. Meanwhile, he’ll offer to sell you a McIntosh stack for >30% off, just so long as you agree to not go tattling on him to Mac. Even though the guy’s customer service is mediocre at best, he seems to do pretty well. I surmise that’s because what he gives up in profit margin he makes up for in sales volume. The guy won’t even load the gear in your vehicle for you because he suffered a stroke a few years ago. But is that a big issue when you’re getting the warrantied product you want for 35% off?
It’s surprising how many here are seemingly unaware of the deals that can be had on brand-new hifi. I figured the primary demographic of this forum would be accustomed to being offered such discounts. It has been my experience that in most cases, with most dealers, one needn’t even ask, the salesperson/owner is eager to offer a sizable discount.
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As an engineer I've purchased many speakers and helped many clients purchase speakers. step 1. What are you looking for ? Size. Sound. Etc. A budget number is a terrible idea as your basis. There are $15,000 speakers that better 60,000 speakers yet only when you know what you're looking for
step 2. Synergy is more important than any one speaker or amp etc. step 3. Buy something you think you can use forever. It will likely not happen that way but it's your goal. |
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I don’t take chances: - notwithstanding my completely, utterly disgusting political orientation, I’m conservative about a lot of things. In particular, spending my money. I don’t want to loose it. |
You should be able to get a nice discount on $50K speakers. at least 20-25% which makes the decision easier. If I were going to spend that kind of dough (which I wouldn't) I would buy from a dealer for peace of mind. If I couldn't get any discount, I would find a different speaker. You can very often get close outs of 40% or even more because a company changed the speaker and has to unload the old ones, or more likely get the 25% off a demo pair from a dealer that will give you full warranty and support. |
as for the - preamp and tuner (no receivers), I bought them used from a dealer in Manhattan who sells lots of used gear and stands behind everything he sells - amps, bought from the same dealer. They were a little unstable in the early years, in spite of taking them to an audio engineer who has won 5 Grammys. Then I came across George Kay and Jon Specter. Jon has recently rebuilt them from top to bottom, converted them to triode, replaced/upgraded all the caps, new NOS GE 6LF6s, and re-etched the corroded sections of the circuit board. He’s been working on Futtermans for decades, he started out by working with George Kaye who he still consults with. I have complete 100% confidence in Jon and George. |
The threads on cables imho have no basis in reality. Yet there are hundreds of them that go on and on. There have been some humorous responses here at the very least, plus the melodrama of my being called disgusting, an accusation that I make zero effort to refute, and which I have been known to embellish upon from time to time, depending on my perception of the algorithmic structure of the narrative. So at least there’s entertainment. |
Personally, I think all the hype and excess funds held by older souls, and highly technically expert people who frequent this forum, as well as all the audio dealers on this forum, are what drives this market even higher. The point I was trying to make was the difficulty of purchasing extremely expensive equipment which should be priced a lot less. The only reason why it’s so high is to support lavish marketing and profit motivated executives to exploit all those excess dollars available to support all this. Truth is, very few people understand all that goes on with a speaker. It’s complicated. Those companies selling these products take advantage of this and when you look into things really closely the people selling the products have no clue what they’re selling. Why should they? Those people with money to spend on the product are not really pushing for a better understanding of what they’re buying Beyond just a few quick questions and maybe a listening session that’s helpful and breaking out a credit card and taking delivery and being treated rather well while they do it. There are really nice people selling audio products. And for those people with excess funds to spend, they feel better spending more money even though same experience could be achieved for considerably less but for some reason spending more money gives people comfort. if Something seems really good and it’s not being sold for very much i wonder why. And I even say to people selling the product you should charge more and people would feel more comfortable about what they’re buying, including me. And I am rather frugal.
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Agreed. I’m here to see what’s going on, but there is a disciplined method to how I go about audio. I decided what my ears prefer at an early age - tube v solid state. I chose the former. When digital came out, after a certain period I decided to stick to analog. When it comes to collecting vinyl, an original press almost always sounds better than a 21st century reissue and even/especially a remaster. I buy second hand and refurbish because that’s the way to get the biggest bang for the buck and the bonus is that it’s also environmentally sound and not buying into wasteful consumerism. I stick to a path and upgrade/add accordingly. Bottom line: the best musical experience at a cheap-rat-bastard price. I have guests say that it sounds better than being there. Good enough for me: spend the excess dough on people less fortunate than I. And a new added bonus is that I get to disgust @roxy54 , 😉 |
Sure they do. Those cable threads are about guys who actually own the cable or are contemplating actually buying some, being challenged by the guys who think expensive cables are nonsense. This threads non reality is he isn’t contemplating buying anything, let alone $50,000 speakers. Just another one of his couple hundred "please pay attention to me" threads. He seems a decent, amiable, harmless fellow. I’ve no idea why he insists on fabricating this nonsense. |
I’m in possession of a curious nature, and read, watch and listen to all manner of ideas and things. EG I subscribe to WaPo, the WSJ, The Guardian, Le Monde, Financial Times, Russian TV, The NY Times, Reason, etc. It is how you learn. I am 70 years old. I am under few illusions about the world and the range of people in it. I will not get to see the changes in behaviors that mankind must make if it is to survive. I do my best to conform to some of those needed behaviors. And I initiated some changes, eg fighting and winning a case at SCOTUS (thank you, Nino Scalia) that changed constitutional law. The rest is for the next generation to do. |
I am not here enough to understand who most of the players are. It seems to me, judging from some of his comments in the thread, that he is trying to coax a discussion about the political economy of audio. Not in so many words, but that’s sort of it in a nutshell and that’s why I responded, because that’s an issue for me as well. Not the issue, an issue. And why I made it more explicit. I did get under one persons skin. Theres a little bit of trolling in the way he’s going about it, which maybe makes it an administrator thing, but imo the people who are saying he is not “real”, just don’t want to pursue what he is hinting at. Which is fine, but then why not just ignore it? Theres an unconscious thing going on here. my two sense. |
Yes, I understand the basic premise of his point, it’s his weird way of delivering it. Simply bring it up for discussion instead of this constant false personal investment. My post about others posting wasn’t directed at you, it was for the guys who are giving him serious advice like he’s actually going to buy something. Either way, let him have his harmless fun. I'm out.
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How do you know what I plan to buy. I sincerely have an interest in buying overpriced speakers because they may sound better than what I have and my tube amplifiers may not be allowed to truly shine with my current speakers. But I didn't post to get a critique on my system components right here, just some overall philosophy issues that I'm dealing with. I happened to believe many of the people on this forum have great insights and because of how the world is so isolated from everybody else this forum presents an opportunity to pursue these types of things in a very helpful manner.
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Buy used from a reputable dealer. The used are often last years demo. Mine has credited me the full value of the prior purchase toward the newer speakers. As a licensed dealer warranty applies. And even if he doesn’t carry a line he stands behind the purchase. I’ve gotten to demo new equipment in my own system and he sets up the purchase. Turntable(reference) , phono preamp and speakers. Didn’t matter if it was a 8k purchase or a 40k purchase
knownwho you’re buying from and build on that relationship. |
brag? Have you ever visited the virtual Displays of systems. This forum feature is probably the best in the world for showcasing peoples individual systems. It's absolutely remarkable. I can only imagine all those amazing systems that are not posted to this site. Truly inspirational what people do in their homes.
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@unreceivedogma wrote:
Agreed, and well put. Essentially, if one lists the total price of the setup he/she owns that has been acquired with mostly used components and chooses to go by new retail prices, it rubs some people the wrong way because it’s not the price that reflects what they were bought for by the latest buyer. And yet the product is the same but simply changed hands on its way to the current owner, and if well-kept and used sensibly (and not excessive in age) will do its job just as well - on top of the likelihood of it being properly run-in. Matters can be made worse or credibility lessened - that is, in the mind of the individual who insists on buying only new, expensive products, and as a rule lets price dictate quality - when a different, potentially lesser known brand from a different segment at a lower price is deemed the equal or (not least) better sounding equivalent compared to a range of more expensive alternatives, because it disrupts the saying that "you get what pay for" as well as the overall narrative of what constitutes audiophilia and the type of products used here. Maybe, at the core of things, the issue appears to be that one who has less of a financial basis isn’t really "allowed" to have the same sonic experience as the more wealthy individual; if so the one with the lower income is essentially cheating or even lying and must be belittled for having bought used and/or (it is probably assumed) dubious, ill-regarded products. Meaning: he isn’t part of the club but just a poor(er) sap who couldn’t get by a claimed, good sound any other way. If that sounds a bit dramatic and rather exaggerated, it likely is, and yet the subtlety of these mechanisms shouldn’t be ignored and underestimated; they’re right there alright, and you needn’t look too hard to see them for what they are. |
Putting aside the issue of op's earnestness, you'd have to get EXTREMELY lucky to sell most 50K MSRP speakers for anywhere near 30K, even mint current models w/ transferrable warranty. 50K isn't the number you're competing with on most new sales. And those in the market for 50K+ speakers often want the paint to match their Porsche (etc). Private sellers can't always be trusted to pack & ship large speakers properly, often at a much higher rate than a dealer/manufacturer gets. And if that MK / version number increments up while waiting for the magic buyer, you're taking a much larger bath. The used audio gear market is tough right now, and selling speakers has always been harder than components. |
I purchased used Legacy Focuses and Signature IIIs after 20 years of stats. That's what I could afford for full range speakers without high power requirements. Then I searched for my ultimate speaker I could afford (not the Von Schweikert Ultras I've heard). During Covid there were a few remodeled VR9 SE Mk2s available from the factory for $50,000. I ended up purchasing a updated, warrantied newly rewired pair with new Foundation (reliable) sub amps for $62,500 in mint condition from a private party who traded them in to the manufacturer's rep. I am overjoyed with the purchase. I stopped looking for speakers for my custom listening room. I am looking for a similar or better quality speaker for my living room (my current Sig IIIs are painted black walnut) in pearlized white or deeper red tone like red cherry, rosewood, mahogany. etc. (the room is pink, gold and off white). The cost to repaint is about $4,500 to $5,000 or find a wood pair (cheaper when available). That's my story. I am not considering market value or resale value. |
Love your comments. Not all of us are retired, but I do admit I'm getting close with each passing year. The 'wasting our time' comment was mostly based on the Ops lack of deciveness on whether he should buy new or used. We all know that spending money on most audio components is never a good financial. If the Op isn't comfortable buying pre-owned speakers then put your 'big boy pants on' and buy new. No need to drag us into the Op's indeciveness. |
@deep_333 comment is hilarious, and somewhat true. If this were a one time thing I'd ignore it and answer the basic question, but the reality is this is a troll post from someone with a history of nonsensical BS. Notice not once was the question of "what do you have now?" or "what are you looking for?" was answered. |
That’s an incredible acoustical design science project you have done to create an incredibly nice looking and no doubt Great sounding listening room. The massive doors are impressive. Choice of wood paneling also very impressive. As well as every single thing else. What a treat it would be to visit this room. Yes updated pictures as you mentioned in your virtual Area would also be nice. I’m trying to get the nerve to post pictures but I’m shy. Maybe if I upgrade my speakers I will do it. I Think I am happy with everything except my speakers which probably are really good but I I think I could do better, and I have to decide if I want to keep them because I hate giving up speakers. I just received a bunch of telefunken 5965 nos tubes and maybe I’ll hear something interesting. One of the primary problems is I really can’t leave my house due to some mobility problems so hearing other systems is difficult. I know what sounds good but I just have nothing to compare to so something out there may actually be better. |
