I have seen a lot of ideas concerning Cable lifters

I think asvjerry hit the nail on the head with pipe insulation.

I think asvjerry hit the nail on the head with pipe insulation.

holmz Concerning your capacitance question, I might sound like I am on the negative side here but I seriously doubt that 'Capacitance' is the issue. That is unless the effect caused by the floor causes a parallel capacitance which would then modify the value of the internal cap as designed by the manufacturer. If you look at the formula for how a capacitor is rated, the air dielectric and the huge variety of materials that make up common floor coverings would create such a tiny capacitance it would not even be seen. I mean like, NOT in the same universe.
collegedunia.com/exams/capacitance-formula-with-solved-examples-articleid-2292

I sort of agree - but that “bunking video” posted earlier showed the capacitance changing.
If is is not capacitance, then there is only inductance and microphonics… if we assume that the resistance is not affected.

or we are left with pure imagination… but the bunking video was somewhat compelling that something electrical is happening, and they were measuring capacitance... Hence the reasoning behind my question.

https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/bunking-cable-lifters/

@holmz Concerning your capacitance question, I might sound like I am on the negative side here but I seriously doubt that 'Capacitance' is the issue. That is unless the effect caused by the floor causes a parallel capacitance which would then modify the value of the internal cap as designed by the manufacturer. If you look at the formula for how a capacitor is rated, the air dielectric and the huge variety of materials that make up common floor coverings would create such a tiny capacitance it would not even be seen. I mean like, NOT in the same universe.
collegedunia.com/exams/capacitance-formula-with-solved-examples-articleid-2292

Does anyone have some factual information on whether cable geometry affects the amount of capacitance with respect to say a floor being nearby?
For example:

• A quad core design IC, inside of a conductive sheath would seem like it would not change capacitance as it gets near a floor.
• A single unchecked speaker cable would surely see other things as they approach the electric field.
• and with some woven speaker cables, maybe they are more immune to the floor as the cable would effectively not have very much of an electric field as they are canceled by the weave.

Does anyone have some details on ^that^, or some empirical observations of which cables like a riser, and which cable are unaffected by the use of them?

@sbank: Thanks Spencer, now I just need to Google what "paste the ULR" means ;-) .

Coincidentally, I've daily been watching the clip from The Last Waltz of The Band and The Staples performing "The Weight" live on a soundstage, and the clip of Emmylou Harris joining The Band for a version of "Evangeline". Watch the clips (and the entire Last Waltz film) to see, people, why I continue to insist The Band are the best ensemble Rock 'n' Roll has yet produced. In my estimation, of course.

Watching & listening to those clips will make you forget all about cable lifters ;-) .

So according to the link @invalid posted you want to have as much air around the cable as possible so any lifters shouldn’t surround the cable at all. I’m going to give them a try! 
 

happy listening ! 
 

Ron 

@bdp24 Yes, it's easy to post a link. Just click on the icon above this box to the right of the smiley face. It's supposed to look like a link of chain. Paste the URL of the webpage you want it to take the user to. If you type a few words into the "Display Text" box, that's the copy that will show instead of the long ugly https:asdfsfsdfsdfs.com. 

As an example here a link to a wonderful clip of Mavis/Nick Lowe/Wilco Cover "The Weight" During Rehearsal

Cheers,

Spencer

The only difference between what is called leaded glass and that which isn't is the amount of lead used in the formulation. You actually ALMOST answered your own comment in the statement about the definition of Dielectric etc. I didn't claim that the lead makes a conductive path but that I DIDN"t know if it MIGHT have an effect on its properties. i.e Conductivity, Capacitance, Inductance...

I do not think that leaded glass if conductive.
If it were to sound different then I think that the inductance or capacitance would change, but I think that the only way to affect capacitance in an insulator of a fixed geometry, is with its dielectric constant.

One of the jobs I worked back in the day required me to get certified as a Master Mechanic. That was right before I went to USC to study Electronic Engineering.

So you spent some time in SoCal.

@sbank - Those look nice! 

@lukemaximus: No problem! Providing a link is always helpful, as not everyone is motivated enough to do a Google search him-or-herself. I really gotta learn how to do the link thing. Is it simple enough to post here? Perhaps I'm not alone ;-) .

+1 @bdp24 

I missed you already having made this suggestion.

rebar chairs:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Grip-Rite-2-1-4-in-Rebar-High-Chair-20-Piece-IHCP21420R/202090708

Strange use of caps...

@Holms
Like I say so often. I looked at your link about the car batteries on concrete and I saw a funny thing on the way to the market to buy some pickled pigs feet. Other that an unsubstantiated claim that it is OK to place a battery on concrete, there is NOTING on that page about it as to why one way or the other might be correct. And you bring back the statement about Alchemy. An Empty statement that says NOThING. All consumer glass does contain lead. The only difference between what is called leaded glass and that which isn't is the amount of lead used in the formulation. You actually ALMOST answered your own comment in the statement about the definition of Dielectric etc. I didn't claim that the lead makes a conductive path but that I DIDN"t know if it MIGHT have an effect on its properties. i.e Conductivity, Capacitance, Inductance...
One of the jobs I worked back in the day required me to get certified as a Master Mechanic. That was right before I went to USC to study Electronic Engineering.

@holmz  That was My intent. Sorry for not going into more detail. I was getting a little long in the tooth and didn't want to drag it out all the way. YES, You take your before and after images with Dirac and compare them. Dirac is VERY detailed and accurate. That is if you use THEIR microphone. I actually had different Groups for things like With and Without subs, and With and Without Center. That way I can tune my system to what I am listening to at any particular time. I always overengineer everything, but it ends up with ROCK-SOLID results.

holmz Confused by your comment about monoblock amps.

Seeing the long cables, I would argue the benefits of MBs.

The amp in that photo is a stereo amp. The speaker cables are Tel Wire cables,  which while more valuable then some are not in the "amp money" category.

Got it.

I noticed your “system”, on the systems side, and we have some similarity in the front end gear. 
You are carrying it through to the end though.

There is some nice gear there.

For those who have doubts or just refuse to even consider this, how intelligent is that, I have a couple of ideas you can easily apply (in certain cases) to visualize your speaker's output. The first and easiest way is by using an APP for cell phones called ‘Decibel X’ or just ‘DB’. It is a free tool that you can use just like a frequency analyzer. Yes, it will depend on the microphone of your phone, but that can easily be remedied by using a better microphone. It takes some time to learn how to see the rapidly changing frequency charts but it works well.
 The second means of testing is IF you have a system that is tuned by 'Dirac' (Diraclive and DiracLE). This tool lets you RECORD the output of a specifically tuned sound that scans a multitude of frequencies and then provides you with a printout of the response. This uses THEIR microphone, which can also be used in the previously mentioned test with ‘Decibel X’. It will not tell you what is musically pleasant to hear, but it will provide you with an accurately tested and documented report. And I think that anyone who has utilized Dirac will tell you, that it does wonders on 'Room Corrections'.

Ok @esarhaddon - do you have the before and after graphs of the cable riser from ^that^ DIRAC report?

For those who have doubts or just refuse to even consider this, how intelligent is that, I have a couple of ideas you can easily apply (in certain cases) to visualize your speaker's output. The first and easiest way is by using an APP for cell phones called ‘Decibel X’ or just ‘DB’. It is a free tool that you can use just like a frequency analyzer. Yes, it will depend on the microphone of your phone, but that can easily be remedied by using a better microphone. It takes some time to learn how to see the rapidly changing frequency charts but it works well.
 The second means of testing is IF you have a system that is tuned by 'Dirac' (Diraclive and DiracLE). This tool lets you RECORD the output of a specifically tuned sound that scans a multitude of frequencies and then provides you with a printout of the response. This uses THEIR microphone, which can also be used in the previously mentioned test with ‘Decibel X’. It will not tell you what is musically pleasant to hear, but it will provide you with an accurately tested and documented report. And I think that anyone who has utilized Dirac will tell you, that it does wonders on 'Room Corrections'.

The best idea is first to try something inexpensive to see if it works.  If it's some company marketing them with claims they cannot prove, use terms like quantum mechanics, designed with carbon fiber with engineering from F1 racing, run away.

I’m just going to whip up a few on my 3d printer and call it good. If nothing else, buying one to print cable management clips and brackets is well worth the cost:)

Worst case I’m out 20 bucks of plastic. Best case I get to answer the question for threat of my life of why I have mini golden gate bridges on the floor🤣

@kellyp 

Omg this has to be the best test for psychosomatic response

Perhaps, but it keeps the robovac from damaging the cables and it was a fun project to make. Cheers,

Spencer 

@holmz Confused by your comment about monoblock amps. The amp in that photo is a stereo amp. The speaker cables are Tel Wire cables,  which while more valuable then some are not in the "amp money" category. 

As an aside, regardless of using monos or a stereo amp, in general, you will benefit by keeping speaker cables short and using longer interconnects to the preamp or source w/volume control. In general when doing long cable runs, balanced cables are beneficial if you have balanced gear. See my system page for an example. Cheers,

Spencer

Made these last month...

^This^ sort of is becoming a sales pitch for mono blocks.
I usually like looking at a mono block amp on the floor in front of the speaker, but the Haus-boss like them behind the speaker (out of view). 

I am not sure what the speaker cables on ^there^ cost, but I suspect that it could be approaching the cost of a second amp?

Obviously I am more of a mono block buy than a cable lifter guy. But the latest used amp is a stereo tube unit, and I should either sell it or be happy with the long speaker cables.
Since I did not have any of the long speaker cables laying around, I am using the lamp cord until the cable arrive.

Glass is probably the best Neutral choice and what do we have in abundance.

Glass has a high breakdown voltage, so glass and porcelain are great on old power poles with high voltage… and they were even popular 150 years ago on the local telegraph lines. But I suspect that other materials may have dielectric constants that are better (lower??).
(Was that covered in the bunking video?)

Omg this has to be the best test for psychosomatic response

Google "Grip-Rite Individual Rebar Chairs". I bought a bag containing 20 chairs at Home Depot for five bucks. Wrap a rubber band around the tops of the rebar support "arms", and lay your cables across the bridge the rubber band has created.

Made these last month...

@pprocter 

Excellent! Look forward to hearing the outcome. I think cardboard X’s with rubber bands across the top will produce a very positive effect if you have a sufficiently resolving system.

Being a firm believer in my own ears, I'm going to make some DIY lifters this weekend and give them a try. Not that it'll change anyone's already formed opinion, but I'll post the results yea or nea.

soix said:

@pprocter Im re-posting an interesting link from @invalid that addresses your question…

https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/bunking-cable-lifters/

Thanks for sharing that again. It made a believer out of me. It definitely won't hurt anything either.

Although I have heavily shielded cables (GroverHuffman.com), they are sitting on 5/8" 90 oz plush nylon pile rug which claims to be anti-static. I use rubber pucks as lifters (like the audio technica ones from the 80s) under the 16’ runs of speaker cable. It makes a slight but noticeable difference, similar to that of a display defeat on CD transports. I tried pegging the cables to the wall but that didn’t sound as good. I suspect many types of insulators would accomplish what I needed, to get the cables off and above the carpeting. This is in a high resolution system so in a moderate end system, it might not be noticeable.

I use glass insulators. You know the kind that go on poles by the railroad tracks. I don't hear a difference in the sound but my system isn't high end (resolving). I figure, if they prevent popping from the static I create shuffling around in my socks..it might help. Mostly I don't have to bend over and move them to vacuum (not like it happens all that often but..). It does prevent the heavy cable from sitting at an angle in the wall or component. If it provides a better connection that has to be good right. Besides, they look cool. Stop sniveling about what other people do. Unless your a PHD electrical engineer and studied the effect, we just don't know. Maybe the practical side is to try different stuff and have fun doing it. Now chill out and listen to some music.

"I doubt any of them have more that a used Sanyo they purchased off of eBay for a sound system."

All you Sanyo owners, please raise your hands.

ok... I'll restrain myself here except to say

LOL

May I add....LMAO!

Electric fence corner ceramic insulators. Very workable design. Ten pack ~$12 at tractor supply.

I recently bought the Fog lifters by Audioquest.  I listened from my chair as my son installed them.  I perceived an immediate in the blackness of the background (noise reduction), better depth and bass definition and a truer rendering of vocals and acoustic instruments.  These are the kinds of bugaboos that you don't notice until they're removed.  Highly recommended.  Besides, you can always return them if expectations aren't met.

@ericsch Me thinks you are putting words into my mouth and I'll thank you to keep your paws out of my oral orifice lest I bite you.
I am not claiming martyrdom, but only pointing out that there are two types of responses here. The ignorant and those who actually have the intelligence to make a comment and then back it up. There is nothing wrong with having a different point of view or even stating such, but with all of the scientific evidence, I see from those who did choose to comment against me here it was just that IGNORANCE and I doubt any of them have more that a used Sanyo they purchased off of eBay for a sound system. As I tried to show before, most improvements of this type are adaptive and provide little actual perceivable difference, BUT when combined with the multitude of other mods, create an effect that IS noticeable. If ew microhenrys here and a farad or two other all add up to a changed output on the overall system. As far as the comments that were probably the MOST accurate, the lesser grade of shielding on a cable being responsible, when you are forking out MEGAbucks for cables it is a trade-off on what you get. That is if you actually do your homework and check out what an item actually is and how it is made.
 Then there is the type of response which p[provided nothing and I mean NOTHING. like "Sounds like an Alchemy lesson". Well, let's see Yes All glass, at least all consumer grade glass has lead in it, and lead is conductive and therefore potentially has an effect on the insulative quality of said glass. But I suspect if that person went to school, he/she didn't get a very good grade in physics or electronics 101 class.

Why the martyrdom?

Yea, really. Does the OP think this is the first time this subject has ever been discussed on this or any other forum?

From 'Jay's iyagi' channel:

My DIY Cable Lifters? How I Changed My Mind About HiFi Audiophile Speaker Cable Lifters

It looks like I opened up a lot of eyes if not minds. My original post was to inspire those WHO DO believe or want to take the chance on lifters to have either a DIY or cost-effective option.

It might move from belief towards something else, with the “bunking” video.

but when I see all of the bashers in here it really makes me wonder about the type of people that frequent this site. Yes, there are those who are genuine Audiophiles and then there are those who are TOTALY UNEDUCATED that BASH anything that comes across the desk without as much as any science to back up what they say.

The concrete and battery were bashed, but I did not see a lot of lifter bashing.
Maybe you need to point out the posts you are referring to?

Then there are the few that had positive comments and at least one that provided an Experiment that you can do at home and prove with Repeatable results the difference. I really could care less how you feel about the subject but I often wonder why a person even visits a page like this if all they have time for is mindless nonsense at the expense of genuine users that desire to advance their lives and lifestyle.

People respond to posts in a number of ways.
We may not know why they do, and they may not even know why.
And some may ask questions to help understand and clarify things.

Unfortunately, this is becoming the status quo for society nowadays.
I do appreciate negative responses thrown in like @curtdr. who simply said, 

"ok... I'll restrain myself here except to say

LOL"

He got his point across without being stupid about it.

Who was supposed to get your point?
Most people who posted have been respectful.
Why the martyrdom?

I experimented first with wood blocks, heard a difference and then built my own lifters using ceramic electric fence insulators and rubber bands on wood dowels.  I hear a difference on my system.   When I first tried it the floor was carpeted.  I installed a hardwood floor and left my cables elevated.  I have never tried them without the cable lifters on the wood floor.  I elevated my 6 meter xlr cable run along with my speaker wires and power cords. 

All glass does not have lead in it. Only leaded crystal is currently still manufactured with any and post 1969 the percentage was significantly reduced. Older plates and glasses may have some lead in the colored glazing used but nothing currently manufactured for human usage does.

Jack pad adapters work great and they're cheap.  Only available in black, which matches my cables.  They are really dense and hard rubber.  They're all over Amazon.  Just pay attention to the width of the groove relative to your cable.

Needless, useless..but its a conversation piece

It looks like I opened up a lot of eyes if not minds. My original post was to inspire those WHO DO believe or want to take the chance on lifters to have either a DIY or cost-effective option. but when I see all of the bashers in here it really makes me wonder about the type of people that frequent this site. Yes, there are those who are genuine Audiophiles and then there are those who are TOTALY UNEDUCATED that BASH anything that comes across the desk without as much as any science to back up what they say. Then there are the few that had positive comments and at least one that provided an Experiment that you can do at home and prove with Repeatable results the difference. I really could care less how you feel about the subject but I often wonder why a person even visits a page like this if all they have time for is mindless nonsense at the expense of genuine users that desire to advance their lives and lifestyle. Unfortunately, this is becoming the status quo for society nowadays.
I do appreciate negative responses thrown in like @curtdr. who simply said, 

"ok... I'll restrain myself here except to say

LOL"

He got his point across without being stupid about it.

I use wood Lincoln Logs. I purchased 100 for $15 delivered off Ebay. 

Tinker Toys, can buy two sets for $28 on Amazon. I'll be installing mine next week

My question: Assuming you believe cable lifters make a difference (and I do) what is the cause? Are they preventing transmission of floor borne vibration, eliminating electrical or magnetic interference from the floor/carpet or eliminating conduction to ground?

As @soix pointed out…

The answer will determine the best construction of the lifter.

It is possible that the answer could also address the material of the lifter, and also the material of the cable’s insulation?

@pprocter Im re-posting an interesting link from @invalid that addresses your question…

https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/bunking-cable-lifters/