I have seen a lot of ideas concerning Cable lifters


I have seen a lot of ideas concerning Cable lifters and all seem to be pricy considering the value and appearance. But what if there was an answer that cost virtually nothing and you had the option to choose a multitude of designs and capabilities?
Glass is probably the best Neutral choice and what do we have in abundance. Used glasses (Goodwill). There are so many options around and possible just waiting one more day you can find exactly what you want and even if you don't like their choices there are options at stores that go far beyond what the High End Audio vendors offer. Here are a couple of examples:


 


 

 

esarhaddon

Showing 10 responses by holmz

I am not sure glass is optimal??
If one likes the idea low dielectric material not slowing down the elective field, then something a lower dielectric constant than glass would be better.

But just try some glasses as well as some plastic cups… 

For those that think this is HOKUM, take a brand new fully charged Car battery and set it on a concrete floor overnight and tell me how well that works out for you.

 

 

On the other hand, I am glad to see the numerous free-thinking minds chiming in here with their DIY projects.

Free thinking?

 

Most Audiophile upgrades offer such small advantages and the expense you pay for any one of them can be exorbitant, but with a little big or mental exercise, you can at least make sure your system has the best advantage with a minimal cost.
I will again suggest either glass (#1) or Ceramic (#2) as choices for lifters as glass is the least reactive.

What is the definition of reactive?
Chemically, direlectic constant?
what is it, and what are the numbers?

 

The only thing I am not sure of is whether the amount of lead in the glass makes a difference. I would think Low Lead to be the best but I have been proven wrong before and this opinion is made with Little thought on the subject. YES, ALL GLASS has some lead in it.

This is sounding like an alchemy lesson, or bent over a cauldron?

My question: Assuming you believe cable lifters make a difference (and I do) what is the cause? Are they preventing transmission of floor borne vibration, eliminating electrical or magnetic interference from the floor/carpet or eliminating conduction to ground?

As @soix pointed out…

The answer will determine the best construction of the lifter.

It is possible that the answer could also address the material of the lifter, and also the material of the cable’s insulation?

It looks like I opened up a lot of eyes if not minds. My original post was to inspire those WHO DO believe or want to take the chance on lifters to have either a DIY or cost-effective option.

It might move from belief towards something else, with the “bunking” video.

 

but when I see all of the bashers in here it really makes me wonder about the type of people that frequent this site. Yes, there are those who are genuine Audiophiles and then there are those who are TOTALY UNEDUCATED that BASH anything that comes across the desk without as much as any science to back up what they say.

The concrete and battery were bashed, but I did not see a lot of lifter bashing.
Maybe you need to point out the posts you are referring to?

 

Then there are the few that had positive comments and at least one that provided an Experiment that you can do at home and prove with Repeatable results the difference. I really could care less how you feel about the subject but I often wonder why a person even visits a page like this if all they have time for is mindless nonsense at the expense of genuine users that desire to advance their lives and lifestyle.

People respond to posts in a number of ways.
We may not know why they do, and they may not even know why.
And some may ask questions to help understand and clarify things.

 

Unfortunately, this is becoming the status quo for society nowadays.
I do appreciate negative responses thrown in like @curtdr. who simply said, 

"ok... I'll restrain myself here except to say

LOL"

He got his point across without being stupid about it.

Who was supposed to get your point?
Most people who posted have been respectful.
Why the martyrdom?

Made these last month...

^This^ sort of is becoming a sales pitch for mono blocks.
I usually like looking at a mono block amp on the floor in front of the speaker, but the Haus-boss like them behind the speaker (out of view). 

I am not sure what the speaker cables on ^there^ cost, but I suspect that it could be approaching the cost of a second amp?

Obviously I am more of a mono block buy than a cable lifter guy. But the latest used amp is a stereo tube unit, and I should either sell it or be happy with the long speaker cables.
Since I did not have any of the long speaker cables laying around, I am using the lamp cord until the cable arrive.

 

 

Glass is probably the best Neutral choice and what do we have in abundance.

Glass has a high breakdown voltage, so glass and porcelain are great on old power poles with high voltage… and they were even popular 150 years ago on the local telegraph lines. But I suspect that other materials may have dielectric constants that are better (lower??).
(Was that covered in the bunking video?)

For those who have doubts or just refuse to even consider this, how intelligent is that, I have a couple of ideas you can easily apply (in certain cases) to visualize your speaker's output. The first and easiest way is by using an APP for cell phones called ‘Decibel X’ or just ‘DB’. It is a free tool that you can use just like a frequency analyzer. Yes, it will depend on the microphone of your phone, but that can easily be remedied by using a better microphone. It takes some time to learn how to see the rapidly changing frequency charts but it works well.
 The second means of testing is IF you have a system that is tuned by 'Dirac' (Diraclive and DiracLE). This tool lets you RECORD the output of a specifically tuned sound that scans a multitude of frequencies and then provides you with a printout of the response. This uses THEIR microphone, which can also be used in the previously mentioned test with ‘Decibel X’. It will not tell you what is musically pleasant to hear, but it will provide you with an accurately tested and documented report. And I think that anyone who has utilized Dirac will tell you, that it does wonders on 'Room Corrections'.

Ok @esarhaddon - do you have the before and after graphs of the cable riser from ^that^ DIRAC report?

holmz Confused by your comment about monoblock amps.

Seeing the long cables, I would argue the benefits of MBs.

 

The amp in that photo is a stereo amp. The speaker cables are Tel Wire cables,  which while more valuable then some are not in the "amp money" category.

Got it.

I noticed your “system”, on the systems side, and we have some similarity in the front end gear. 
You are carrying it through to the end though.

There is some nice gear there.

The only difference between what is called leaded glass and that which isn't is the amount of lead used in the formulation. You actually ALMOST answered your own comment in the statement about the definition of Dielectric etc. I didn't claim that the lead makes a conductive path but that I DIDN"t know if it MIGHT have an effect on its properties. i.e Conductivity, Capacitance, Inductance...

I do not think that leaded glass if conductive.
If it were to sound different then I think that the inductance or capacitance would change, but I think that the only way to affect capacitance in an insulator of a fixed geometry, is with its dielectric constant.

 

One of the jobs I worked back in the day required me to get certified as a Master Mechanic. That was right before I went to USC to study Electronic Engineering.

So you spent some time in SoCal.

Does anyone have some factual information on whether cable geometry affects the amount of capacitance with respect to say a floor being nearby?
For example:

  • quad core design IC, inside of a conductive sheath would seem like it would not change capacitance as it gets near a floor.
  • A single unchecked speaker cable would surely see other things as they approach the electric field.
  • and with some woven speaker cables, maybe they are more immune to the floor as the cable would effectively not have very much of an electric field as they are canceled by the weave.

Does anyone have some details on ^that^, or some empirical observations of which cables like a riser, and which cable are unaffected by the use of them?

holmz Concerning your capacitance question, I might sound like I am on the negative side here but I seriously doubt that 'Capacitance' is the issue. That is unless the effect caused by the floor causes a parallel capacitance which would then modify the value of the internal cap as designed by the manufacturer. If you look at the formula for how a capacitor is rated, the air dielectric and the huge variety of materials that make up common floor coverings would create such a tiny capacitance it would not even be seen. I mean like, NOT in the same universe.
collegedunia.com/exams/capacitance-formula-with-solved-examples-articleid-2292

I sort of agree - but that “bunking video” posted earlier showed the capacitance changing.
If is is not capacitance, then there is only inductance and microphonics… if we assume that the resistance is not affected.

or we are left with pure imagination… but the bunking video was somewhat compelling that something electrical is happening, and they were measuring capacitance... Hence the reasoning behind my question.

https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/bunking-cable-lifters/