“House” Character of Popular $20-$30k Speakers

I'm driving Wilson Watt Puppy 8's with a Gryphon Diablo 300. Talk about synergy!!! Ever so slightly sweet, but extremely detailed and does space (depth, width, height) better than anything I've ever heard. The bass is super tight and impactful, but never overbearing (which is a problem I had with my Pass Labs in the past...).

You can't go wrong with Wilson and Gryphon.

You Know, there's a plethora of very fine sounding, full range, floor standing speakers out there.  It all depends on your own personal preference and how deep your pockets are.  If you want a proven, true world class, true full range floor stander, that's very reasonably priced new, let along what they could be had for on the used market, save yourself some time and hassle and just go with a pair of Revel Salon 2 speakers.  You will not be disappointed!!!!    

Thanks for all these other suggestions, but only the brands I mentioned are available near me.

I was also thinking, my room may reduce my choices even further. Given my room configuration, even though the room is quite large, I can only have about 20-25 inches behind an average dimension speaker. I think this might rule out rear-vented models (SF Cremonese recommend twice this distance behind the speaker for example). The Magico A5’s again look promising in this regard as their manual suggests trying with 20” behind and adjusting a bit from there….

I think the Wilson’s might be out of the question because of this with their rear ports.  Same with the SF Cremonese (but the Amati’s could work).

Also, regarding the Magico’s being for listening to mating crickets for your thesis (lol), from what I’ve read the A5’s are more musical than typical Magico’s. One review I read suggested these are the first Magico’s that won’t be polarizing to people. And my Diablo should in theory add the the tone and liveliness with it’s slight coloration. It’s done that with other speakers including my current B&W’s.

I second the suggestion to consider Vandersteen which IMO represent excellent value. Also check out Egglestonworks.

@mournbladeiv

Thank you.
 

Btw, my audio guy brought over one of his employees to listen to my system. He turned it up louder that I ever would even consider or thought it could go… no clipping, just perfect musical reproduction at really high volume… with 70wpc.

@styleman I was lucky enough to get a pair of Focal Sopra No2's when they first came to the U.S. and they will probably be the last pair of speakers I purchase.  I find they "work" with all sorts of musical styles, from soft acoustic to loud rock and roll.  When I was auditioning them I did find they didn't "shine" being driven by some amplifiers, sometimes sounded "edgy", but being driven by smooth sounding electronics, they really sing!

I strongly disagree with the notion that Focals are analytical. If that's how they sounded, it's on the rest of the system.

I use Boulder amps with my Stella Utopias and they are richly textured to the point of being lush, and have truly stupendous bass

@ghdprentice 

Beautiful set up!

@mournbladeiv 

I have all Audio Research gear, see my ID to see it. My ARC Reference 160s is running in triode mode so it is at half power… about 70 watts per channel. The triod mode has a very small edge in being a touch warmer… other than that hard to tell between 140 wpc and 70wpc.

Reading through this thread and surprised that no one suggested Vandersteen. The powered bass in the Quatro CT or Kento integrate into your room and “unburden” your Diablo. They are imaging champions and never fatiguing.  Worth an audition for sure.

My local dealer has a pair of the Amati Traditions in the Red finish. They are beautiful, both in appearance and sound. Definitely the top of my want list for speakers in this price range. If I may ask, what  are you using to drive them?  So far I have heard them on McIntosh(C53/MC462 combo)  and Burmester Integrated. IMO, they definitely sounded better on the Mac gear.

Currently powering my Sonetto's with a Michi X5.

@mournbladeiv

I own a pair of Sonus Faber Amati Traditional and have auditioned Magico many times. To me, it is a question of do you want to reproduce music or a science experiment. If I was listening to details of crickets mating for my masters degree… I would pick Magico. If I had $400K of electronics and wanted to hear every last detail off of albums, I would pick Magico. If I wanted to listen to music and have an emotional connection… I want my Amati. I love my Amati… and they are beautiful as well.

More on their Stage Accompany M59's 

 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/stage-accompany-m59.774/

Stage Accompany Master M59’s for large rooms and you can get the speaker cabinets made out of BamBoo wood too.. Special Order

 They have more videos on You Tube on the M59's and M57's 

They sell them in Canada at https://www.benabe.ca

Stage Accompany Master M57 Speakers with an Audio Note DAC and an Audio Note Cobra Tube Integrated amp ? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqJuBkxixS8

@nyev my main issue with panels is that they ONLY sound good (and really good) in the sweet spot.

Not at all what I've found. In fact, I find my Maggies, after detail to placement and set up, to image off axis better than any box speaker I've heard or owned. 

As I have them set up (four or more ft. from front wall and two or more ft. from side walls, with tweeter ribbons to the outside and very slight toe in) the image stays rock solid and focused - wether in or out of the sweet spot and wether sitting, standing or even laying on the floor. In fact, not having to sit (head in a vice) in one exact spot, to enjoy great imaging and a large well managed stage, is one of the things I like most about the Maggies.....Jim

@hedwigstheme I started with an Audio Research SP14 and Classic 60 amp. Then went with a beefed up/modified Counterpoint NPS 400 amp. Then 125w tube monoblock voltage regulated custom made amps with a custom made preamp using six subminiature tubes (both amps and preamp have super capacitor ratings and large classic NOS transformers). Overkill on my Legacy speakers (now include a super beefed up and voltage regulated Dynaco 70/no longer ultralinear for the Signature IIIs). Tremendous bass control and superb dynamics. Hoping to purchase Von Schweikert VR9SE MkII in future or maybe Evolution Acoustics MM2 or MM3.

@jomonhifi , totally planning on lugging my Diablo with me!  If you carried it on your own you are a stronger man than me.  My wife will need to help me load it in my car, and the dealer will need to help me unload and reload it…. Will be a lot of work!  But unfortunately absolutely necessary.  I didn’t even really like my current speakers until I connected them to the Diablo, despite home demo-ing a number of other amps and separates, including McIntosh, etc. So glad I found the Diablo.  Just hope I don’t drop it while lugging it to the shop!!!

@fleschlr--may I ask what preamplifiers and amplifiers you used with the MartinLogans?

Zingali Evo 1.2 sound amazing with Zen/Diablo combo. I'd prefer it to SF.

Do what I did… if you can lift the Diablo. If your dealer doesn’t carry that amp but has the speakers you like, schlepp the Gryphon with you…!

To the poster who liked the ML ReQuest. I had it in a second system and the Monolith IIIs in the main room 27 years ago. When my wife heard them 26 years ago, she HATED them. Bright, beamy, lacking in bass and warmth, limited dynamics-yuk. Replaced with 1990s versions of the Legacy Focus and Signature IIIs. They are old now and looking forward to VS or EA speakers mentioned above.

How about Von Schweikert used VR55s or new Endeavor E5 or Endeavor SE.  Evolution Acoustics MM2.  These are state of the art in their price range $25K-$45K.  Dynamic with great bass, you are there presence.  You should audition these before plunking down 3 or 4 big ones.  

@nyev  Yes - You can absolutely use the A10 as a pre-amp. There is a setting in the app that lets you enable the volume control using the remote control or the dial on the front panel. There is only one input on the back and that’s a SPDIF input for a CD transport or any other digital source. There is no Phono-In for a TT. You can bring in a proper pre-amp at a later date. Like I said - It’s how I auditioned my ARC 160s side by side with my Diablo 300. (No slouch…!)

the 160s with the Serafino’s is really musical and satisfying. Beautiful imaging and soundstage with plenty of party…!

enjoy…!

@jomonhifi, I wasn’t aware that you could use a media server/streamer like the Aurender as a preamp.  That approach would certainly put the ARC160S, or any Amplifier in that range, in the same budget range as the Diablo 300.  How does the Aurender work like that?  I suppose it has a built in preamp as well?  Can it accept other inputs besides itself (can you connect a turntable for example?). And, I suppose you are giving up performance but not having a dedicated preamp?

@ghdprentice , very good advice regarding focusing on enjoyment of music vs trying and failing to memorize every aspect of what you heard to contrast it to the next thing you try… Humans are known to have very poor auditory memory in that regard. I do get there in the end with my component testing, I always have, but it sometimes becomes a massive effort requiring a ton of focus. The little things you pick up in such testing matters, as strengths and weaknesses become more obvious when you eventually live with it and listen over extended periods. But I really like your philosophy. Very “sound” advice.

Start measuring while listening to your current speakers while moving them around the room, it might help with the future purchase to know how the room sounds from every angle.

What about harbeth 40.

Several points : The first thing you need to clearly define what your speaker do today and that you want the new speaker to do as well. 
second you need to know well what your current speaker does not do and you would like the new speaker to be capable of.

Then you will probably do an analytical listening of the desired speakers to hear how they fit the bill . 
And last and most important as ghdprentice wrote you need to just listen to music forgetting your analytical analysis .

Does this speaker draw you into the music, does it provide emotional connection to the music .

It is manadatory to hear these speakers with your amplifier . 

As far as brand you will have as more advice as there is brand on earth as we have all different taste in what reproduced music should sound . 
Myself a long time ago I used to have bw 802n with ar tube gear and then while abroad bw 805d with ar tube gear .

For a few years I went to Martin Logan montis but I came back to the electrodynamic speaker as the electrostatic can’t provide enough dynamic .

I have auditioned the bw803d4 and I did purchased them .They have been in my system for 2 months . I am very happy with the sound quality . My room is 350square feet . 
I did also listened to the 801d4 ,they are fantastic .They have in my opinion excellent bass .

i did listened several time to the bw d3 série but never liked them . Much to hifi sounding . The d4 is just much more musical . 

As you like the B + W sound and you have a larger room with high ceilings Id look at the PMC MB2Se.

"but adding some small capabilities with transparency and detail, imaging, and low end presence." This particular PMC will pick up transparency, detail and bass resolution over the B+W. I cant comment on the synergy or lack of with your kit. If there is a dealer nearby they are a great speaker likely a bit higher than your budget though.    

You should like the Wilson Benesch speakers. Extremely fast, effortless, organic, high resolution, makes the music accessible..

The highest tech speakers available. 

OP,

After decades of making audio choices I found that the best thing to do after a few minutes of critical listening. Just listen to the music… let it soak into your subconscious. Does it move you? Drop the jumping from one sound to another trying to memorize all the notable attributes. There is likely going to be a pull to certain components.

Took me years to figure this out for myself. Would not be surprised if it could help you.

Actually most of our intelligence comes from our subconscious… let it decide. Ultimately this is what is listening to music once you have your system at home… it is what connects with the music.

That is called chasing your tail - one component making up for another.  I hope you don't spend a lot of money, just to spend it all over again.

Been using the Focal Sopra 2's for 6 years now with the Esoteric F-05 and K-03XD. Sopra 2's are stunning. Wide deep soundstage, great imaging, tight articulate bass. They don't seem analytical to me at all. I auditioned them against several of the aforementioned speakers. It was like buying a puppy. Take the one that jumps out and comes to you.

I have a friend who just got a set of Paradigm Persona 9H. I haven't heard them yet. He is super picky and says they are phenomenal. I'll try to invite myself over soon for a listen and will report my findings. 

The Sound Environment in Kansas City carries Rockport, Focal, Wilson and Gryphon.  You could likely hear several from your list in the same place.  

I have owned Focal and they can be analytical depending on the Amp.  I traded Sopra 2 for Wilson Sasha 2 and as much as I enjoyed the Focal's, I like the Wilson's better.  That said, I did not care for Wilson Yvette with Gryphon.  It was too warm for my taste, but you may like the sound.  

This dealer is about a three hour trip from where I live. I might break it up into multiple days when I go and leave the Diablo at the shop if they let me. I find that intensive listening can be a mind game where you can easily fool yourself. I’ve found that in many cases your first impressions can either improve or degrade after time, once your ears and mind are given a chance to adjust. When I was amp shopping a few years back, I was dehydrated and had been rushing around. Resulted in a very useless auditioning session. I find it quite stressful as I tend to perpetually second guess my conclusion until my conclusions eventually stabilize. It’s a lot of work! Also I tend to find some sort of intolerable fault in 95% of what I test. I almost gave up before I discovered the Diablo 300. As someone said, the Diablo isn’t totally neutral and it’s slight coloration is part of the reason I love it so much. Although, one recent pro review claimed they coloration came from the intrernal DAC module and not the amp. Either way the sound is great, but I probably would have saved a ton of cash if I hadn’t found it!

Going to have to start getting in shape so I can lug that thing to the shop without tweaking my back…. Not even joking.  Although we’ll probably make it a family trip and get a hotel for a few nights, so I will have help!

one dealer that has the A5’s, Dynaudios, Paradigms, AudioVectors, and Sonus Fabers, and Monitor Audios. 
 

You are VERY fortunate.  Bring your Diablo to audition - best to give dealer time to set up which brand/models you want to demo.  Also, if dealer doesn’t have the particular brand+model, maybe demo the brand anyway to get an idea of the brand house sound.

Intersting comment. I live within an hour of both Wilson and Tekton Design. I own both and Tektons are fabulous speakers. Some research may be of value, and no, I hate Vegas...

Thanks All. Not all of these brands (Vivid and others) are available in my area. I do have one dealer that has the A5’s, Dynaudios, Paradigms, AudioVectors, and Sonus Fabers, and Monitor Audios. I think they have most of the models in my range in their showroom. Not bad for one shop!

It’s going to be a few weeks before I start auditioning. I need to sell my fancy car first to fund my purchase (priorities)…. :)

Will provide an update but it might be a bit.

With the power your Gryphon Diablo 300 provides, if I were you I'd be tempted (depending on your room) to try a pair of Martin Logan reQUEST.

Tremendous transparency, fast, great frequency response 30-24,000 Hz +/-3dB, and they just have that WOW factor.

Ads say 200 watts will drive them just fine, my experience is just the opposite. A speaker with a 90dB/sensitivity and a 4 ohms Impedance is a lot thirstier than the manufacture suggests.

Better too much clean power, than not enough marginal power. (you can always dial the volume back, rather than clip turning it up.

Beauty is they can be had for about $2500.00 bucks.

Audio Solutions Virtuoso M.

I drive my A5's with Mac tube pre and power and believe the warmth of the tubes provides a complementary soul to the Magicos.

Bottom rounded out with a B&W DB3 placed behind my rig, fring to the side walls. Think PhilZone.

True classic Audiophile speakers Marten ,and MBL both excellent 

MBL requires more power but that 360 dispersion is like you are there and no driver spider truly lets the transparency through unlike the vast majority of box speakers.

Vimberg, Rockport, Magico and Estelon would be at the top of my list with that amp - resolution, transparency, body and soul.

Do explore adding a pair of quality subs like JL Fathom F112/3 - so much more than just bass, you'll find the entire spectrum enriched as well as significant gains to soundstage.

I would also consider Vivid Audio and Stenheim. I carry both brands in my store as well as Bowers. The new 802D4 has plenty of bass setup correctly. Look at 801D4

and I love the look of them takes 166 hours to make each cabinet 11 layers of hand polished lacquer and beautiful Stathsprey leather which is used by Rolls-Royce and other high and automobile manufacturers

anotherBob, the platinum 500 Gen 2 are more than 30,000 now because of the pandemic probably about 35,000 now but they are definitely world class speakers way better than Magico and many other very high price speakers, if the monitor audio platinum were made in England still the 500 would probably cost 80 to 100,000, their driver technology is way ahead of everybody and that MPD tweeter is the best tweeter on the market right now, it goes clean to 100,000.

Please let us know your  findings. I found a Diablo 300 about 4 hours south of me in Austin, TX. Hoping to go check it out next month. Might make a weekend of it and go to Houston to check out a Vitus RI-101 MK 2, those 2 Integrateds have my curiosity piqued.

I have heard all of those. Cost no object I like the Wilson’s the best but I think they are a poor buy these days at their current price. Lots of stuff almost as good or technically better for less but Wilson’s are fun (extra bass) while being accurate enough.