“House” Character of Popular $20-$30k Speakers

@jomonhifi , totally planning on lugging my Diablo with me!  If you carried it on your own you are a stronger man than me.  My wife will need to help me load it in my car, and the dealer will need to help me unload and reload it…. Will be a lot of work!  But unfortunately absolutely necessary.  I didn’t even really like my current speakers until I connected them to the Diablo, despite home demo-ing a number of other amps and separates, including McIntosh, etc. So glad I found the Diablo.  Just hope I don’t drop it while lugging it to the shop!!!

Thanks All. Not all of these brands (Vivid and others) are available in my area. I do have one dealer that has the A5’s, Dynaudios, Paradigms, AudioVectors, and Sonus Fabers, and Monitor Audios. I think they have most of the models in my range in their showroom. Not bad for one shop!

It’s going to be a few weeks before I start auditioning. I need to sell my fancy car first to fund my purchase (priorities)…. :)

Will provide an update but it might be a bit.

@clearthinker, my main issue with panels is that they ONLY sound good (and really good) in the sweet spot.  So much so that I feel like you might as well get headphones at that point.  But I agree they can sound superb in the sweet spot.

@mournbladeiv, thanks for this and your experience seems consistent with what others say in general about Sonus vs Magico. I’ll definitely need to audition these both. I don’t want absolute clarity at the expense of being strident. But, it is very possible that the A5’s wouldn’t be strident with my Diablo, as I also found my current B&W’s to be very slightly strident (in the upper mids mostly) at times when I was doing amplifier home demos…. Including with a McIntosh 452 and tube preamp.  The Diablo totally solved that though.

I also seriously think it is worth putting Rockports on the list even if I have to travel. Anyone know of Rockport dealers who would also have a Gryphon Diablo 300 on hand?

There seems to be a strong but smaller following of Monitor as well, which are available in my region, but I don’t know anything about their particular “house sound”.

@jomonhifi, I wasn’t aware that you could use a media server/streamer like the Aurender as a preamp.  That approach would certainly put the ARC160S, or any Amplifier in that range, in the same budget range as the Diablo 300.  How does the Aurender work like that?  I suppose it has a built in preamp as well?  Can it accept other inputs besides itself (can you connect a turntable for example?). And, I suppose you are giving up performance but not having a dedicated preamp?

One more note:  I actually really enjoy listening to a high-performing system at quiet levels sometimes, late at night.  When you can hear all of the system's character, and also imaging, at that low of a level, it becomes almost surreal.  I've heard that the Magico A5's excel at that.  Maybe it's because they are a "fast" speaker?

So subjective I guess, but interesting... My list is limited to speakers I’d be able to audition in my area. I am wondering if I am up for lugging my Diablo 300 to the audition - I don’t really want to put my beloved amp through all of that trauma, and it would add to the stress for me, worrying about it! But I suppose I’ll need to. Most speakers in this range aren’t practical for in-home demos.

Without having listened to many other than B&W before, purely from reading reviews which I know is sort of worthless considering how subjective speakers and amps can be, I really WANT to like the Magico A5’s. But, I do hear many say how clinical and analytical Magico’s can be, which doesn’t sound like my style at all. I just don’t want to swing too far the other way either. I hear many say Focals are analytical too.

One thing I’m a bit tired of is large speakers that don’t have enough bass presence, in my admittedly larger space. I think it was Stereophile’s all-positive Magico A5 review that said they had a tad too much bass, but that it was very enjoyable. Review said if bass was 3-5dB louder it would be too much.

But maybe Dynaudio’s will be the sweet spot for me, or maybe I’ll prefer the relaxed-leaning Sonus Fabers. One thing about my current B&W 803 D2’s is, they are very relaxed and easy to listen to for ages, but they only got this way when I drove them with my Diablo. Almost like an old pair of perfect-fitting jeans, and they are not fussy at all anymore. Before my Diablo, with many other amps I tested at home, and with my prior Arcam amp, I actually slightly regretted the purchase of the 803’s! So, maybe the Magico A5’s won’t actually be clinical or analytical when driven by the Diablo.

@larry5729 , I’d love to listen to the Rockports as they have a lot of fans. But I live in Western Canada and there are no dealers near me. Maybe I would consider using some Airmiles and flying to a dealer that sells Rockports and has a Diablo 300 as well? As I said their do seem to be a lot of Rockports fans.

Yes, I do like my speakers after finding the Diablo which made them much more engaging, natural and with excellent dynamic swing. Slight tonal darkness (from the Diablo) which makes pretty much everything I listen too sound great, even with noisy hard rock recordings (ie Pearl Jam, etc).

What am I missing? I’ve heard what the 802 D3’s can do with the Diablo 300 when I auditioned the Diablo. Far, far mor transparency with details in songs is never heard before, way more fully formed imaging, with instruments and vocals not just in a 3D space but sounding 3D themselves.

With both the 802 D3’s and also my speakers, I’m also missing some bass presence and the 802 D3’s MIGHT be a hair too mid-forward for me (but if they had more bass than they might be perfect). Also, the 802’s were very finicky when moving around - poor off-axis performance.

I feel like subwoofers shouldn’t be needed at this level. So what am I looking for beyond my speakers:

-More transparency and detail

-More bass, but not looking for crazy room shaking bass. Just a bit more.

-Better imaging

-I want speakers that are stunning at low volumes (like my current speakers with my amp. This might rule out Dynaudios from what I’ve read)

-I want a musically engaging sound. Whatever that means, but I know it when I hear it. I home demoed some Moon / SimAudio amps and found them to have wicked precise detail and pinpoint soundstaging but found the music so uninvolving it was depressing… Some may say that rules out the A5 but I’m thinking my Diablo could add the “life” as it did with my current speakers.

-I want speakers that are not fussy about where you listen to them. Wasn’t an important feature before but my current system is very unfussy and I like that about it.

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@mournbladeiv, thanks for your thoughts! All brands you mentioned are available near me. How would you characterize the sonic differences between the A5’s and the Sonus Faber Amati Traditions and, looks aside, would you put one over the other in sonic performance?

For me looks are way down on my list of priorities, although my wife said she doesn’t like the like the look of the A5’s compared with my current speakers! Personally I think they look boring too, but also cool understated and very classic.

Based on feedback so far, here is my prioritized order for auditions:

• Rockport Atrium 2’s are now in my top spot.  Would need to travel to audition.  Anyone know of a Rockport dealer likely to also have a Diablo 300?
• Magico A5 / Sonus Faber (would try multiple models). 
• Dynaudio (Confidence 30 I think?) but I think possibly might not have the low volume performance as I hear they like to be cranked….
• Monitor Audio, Audio Vector, Wilson, Paradigm

Looks like Goodwin’s in MA carries both Rockports and Gryphon. This is where I might travel to!

Regarding Rockport Atria 2’s: how are they on bass presence and suitability for a larger room (600 square feet with high ceilings vaulting up to 12 feet?

As I mentioned, I really like the sound but find B&W’a in general to be lacking in bass presence and while I like the transparency and imaging of the 802 D3’s I think they are far too fussy with where the listening position needs to be.

I read a review of the 802 D4’s that said to expect bass to be missing in rooms smaller than 430 square feet.  My room is more like 600 with high ceilings vaulting up to 12 ft and openings to other rooms and hallways too.

I suppose that is something to consider with all of my speaker options as well.

@mayoradamwest , do you mean your Wilson’s have the same character as the B&W’s, just with the added bass? If not, how else are the Wilson’s different?

Update:  Never mind, just saw the price of the Alexia 2’s, they are in another league lol!!!

@sc2 , unfortunately those brands are not available in my area. I’m making an exception and willing to travel to listen to the Rockports, just due to how many people seem to love and recommend them. Seems like people refer to them as a natural sounding, musically engaging speaker that strikes a good balance.

I do wonder if they have enough presence for my 600 sq feet high ceiling room though (the Atria 2’s)…

@thyname , yes, I meant to say that the review said the 802 D3’s would be lacking in bass in rooms larger than 430 sq feet.

As I mentioned, I have the 803 D2’s but initially auditioned my Diablo 300 with the 802 D3’s (a number of times for extended periods).

@kennyc , what gear / amplification was paired with the A5’s when you listened to them?

I feel like I have no harsh or sibilant components in my chain, so hopefully the A5’s won’t be strident or harsh sounding in my system.  The Diablo manual advocates not trying to “correct” sound with cabling, but rather to select the electronics you like and choose cabling that does as little as possible to the sound.  They recommend silver cabling, which I have.  So maybe the A5’s can be an extension to this philosophy…

Since I know how the B&W’s sound, how were the A5’s different?

And yes, I will be going and auditioning with my amp if I have to (hate to disturb it…)…

On a side note I still hope I like the Magicos, as I actually really like their “boring” understated look.  Sonus Fabers look incredible, but it reminds me of a fancy hotel lobby or the reception to a members only airport lounge…. Magico’s just look plain and cool to me!

@mayoradamwest , thanks for the clarification and yes I fully agree with the importance of hearing everything first hand.  That said, before auditioning, I wanted to get a “general consensus” of the character of these different brands.  Before I audition amplifiers I did the same thing, and it helped.  In most cases, but not all, I agreed with the consensus on how a particular amp or preamp sounded.

Speaking of aging, I know that even in my 40’s my high frequency hearing is starting to degrade, based on a test I did years ago.  The test showed where my high frequency rolloff was happening. It’s not something I notice yet, but I am scared to do another test!  Having said that it might be valuable info in selecting which speakers I choose :)

This dealer is about a three hour trip from where I live. I might break it up into multiple days when I go and leave the Diablo at the shop if they let me. I find that intensive listening can be a mind game where you can easily fool yourself. I’ve found that in many cases your first impressions can either improve or degrade after time, once your ears and mind are given a chance to adjust. When I was amp shopping a few years back, I was dehydrated and had been rushing around. Resulted in a very useless auditioning session. I find it quite stressful as I tend to perpetually second guess my conclusion until my conclusions eventually stabilize. It’s a lot of work! Also I tend to find some sort of intolerable fault in 95% of what I test. I almost gave up before I discovered the Diablo 300. As someone said, the Diablo isn’t totally neutral and it’s slight coloration is part of the reason I love it so much. Although, one recent pro review claimed they coloration came from the intrernal DAC module and not the amp. Either way the sound is great, but I probably would have saved a ton of cash if I hadn’t found it!

Going to have to start getting in shape so I can lug that thing to the shop without tweaking my back…. Not even joking.  Although we’ll probably make it a family trip and get a hotel for a few nights, so I will have help!

@ghdprentice , very good advice regarding focusing on enjoyment of music vs trying and failing to memorize every aspect of what you heard to contrast it to the next thing you try… Humans are known to have very poor auditory memory in that regard. I do get there in the end with my component testing, I always have, but it sometimes becomes a massive effort requiring a ton of focus. The little things you pick up in such testing matters, as strengths and weaknesses become more obvious when you eventually live with it and listen over extended periods. But I really like your philosophy. Very “sound” advice.

Thanks for all these other suggestions, but only the brands I mentioned are available near me.

I was also thinking, my room may reduce my choices even further. Given my room configuration, even though the room is quite large, I can only have about 20-25 inches behind an average dimension speaker. I think this might rule out rear-vented models (SF Cremonese recommend twice this distance behind the speaker for example). The Magico A5’s again look promising in this regard as their manual suggests trying with 20” behind and adjusting a bit from there….

I think the Wilson’s might be out of the question because of this with their rear ports.  Same with the SF Cremonese (but the Amati’s could work).

Also, regarding the Magico’s being for listening to mating crickets for your thesis (lol), from what I’ve read the A5’s are more musical than typical Magico’s. One review I read suggested these are the first Magico’s that won’t be polarizing to people. And my Diablo should in theory add the the tone and liveliness with it’s slight coloration. It’s done that with other speakers including my current B&W’s.