“House” Character of Popular $20-$30k Speakers

If you like B&W general sound signature, the obvious choice is the new 802 D4. Or the 801 D4 if you can swing it. Your D2 is two generations ago

As I mentioned, I really like the sound but find B&W’a in general to be lacking in bass presence and while I like the transparency and imaging of the 802 D3’s I think they are far too fussy with where the listening position needs to be.

I read a review of the 802 D4’s that said to expect bass to be missing in rooms smaller than 430 square feet.  My room is more like 600 with high ceilings vaulting up to 12 ft and openings to other rooms and hallways too.

I suppose that is something to consider with all of my speaker options as well.

Looks like Goodwin’s in MA carries both Rockports and Gryphon. This is where I might travel to!

Regarding Rockport Atria 2’s: how are they on bass presence and suitability for a larger room (600 square feet with high ceilings vaulting up to 12 feet?

like the transparency and imaging of the 802 D3’s

I thought you had the 803 D2

I read a review of the 802 D4’s that said to expect bass to be missing in rooms smaller than 430 square feet.  My room is more like 600

Did you mean “rooms LARGER than 430 square feet? 
 

It’s one review (source by any chance?). Take it with a grain of salt. Besides, if you really want great bass, get dual subwoofer (or four). Any speakers.

Having said this, I understand you may be in a point of your journey you want to own other brands of speakers. Been there done that. Nothing wrong with it. Enjoy the journey 
 

Have you considered Legacy Audio or Classic Audio Loudspeakers?

@thyname , yes, I meant to say that the review said the 802 D3’s would be lacking in bass in rooms larger than 430 sq feet.

As I mentioned, I have the 803 D2’s but initially auditioned my Diablo 300 with the 802 D3’s (a number of times for extended periods).

@sc2 , unfortunately those brands are not available in my area. I’m making an exception and willing to travel to listen to the Rockports, just due to how many people seem to love and recommend them. Seems like people refer to them as a natural sounding, musically engaging speaker that strikes a good balance.

I do wonder if they have enough presence for my 600 sq feet high ceiling room though (the Atria 2’s)…

@nyev 

I’m also shopping in the $20-30k range.

The Magico A5 is a bargain at it’s price point.  It surpasses the S3 and completes with the S5mk2.  It’s midrange is fantastic.  
Magico generally are neutral transparent speakers so should be a relatively clear window into the rest of your audio chain.  It may be an ideal subjective match for your Gryphon Diablo- only you can tell what you like.  The A5 is my top choice so far, but my dealer wants me to demo Rockports and Vimbergs first.

I’ve auditioned the Monitor Audio PL300 II several times- it’s sounds great at it’s price point, but was not in the same sonic and price point as the A5.  The PL500II are too large/tall for my tastes and space.  The Monitor Audio line offers great price/performance from the Silver and up.

I never warmed up to the Wilsons or B&W sound.  But it’s likely a matter of personal taste.

It’s best to demo speakers in your own system.  If not possible, then demo it with your Diablo.   Otherwise, you’ll be hoping and guessing what sound “you”  like based on data of what “others” like which may or not align with your own subjective tastes.  

@kennyc , what gear / amplification was paired with the A5’s when you listened to them?

I feel like I have no harsh or sibilant components in my chain, so hopefully the A5’s won’t be strident or harsh sounding in my system.  The Diablo manual advocates not trying to “correct” sound with cabling, but rather to select the electronics you like and choose cabling that does as little as possible to the sound.  They recommend silver cabling, which I have.  So maybe the A5’s can be an extension to this philosophy…

Since I know how the B&W’s sound, how were the A5’s different?

And yes, I will be going and auditioning with my amp if I have to (hate to disturb it…)…

On a side note I still hope I like the Magicos, as I actually really like their “boring” understated look.  Sonus Fabers look incredible, but it reminds me of a fancy hotel lobby or the reception to a members only airport lounge…. Magico’s just look plain and cool to me!

I had the 802 D3 and they definitely lacked bass presence. Switched to Wilson Alexia 2 and it’s like someone added a sub. Almost the same size drivers but ported. 

@mayoradamwest , do you mean your Wilson’s have the same character as the B&W’s, just with the added bass? If not, how else are the Wilson’s different?

Update:  Never mind, just saw the price of the Alexia 2’s, they are in another league lol!!!

I have heard Magico… incredible speakers…. But you better have first class electronics behind them. Or you are going to hear any shortcomings. 
 

I was seduced by Sonus Faber for their natural sound… as in perfectly reproducing acoustic sounds which translates into all music genre sounding great. I have now had three sets of Sonus… Amati Traditional now.

My speaker dealer didn’t carry Gryphon products, so I schlepped my 90 lbs Diablo to the dealer and auditioned it with a bunch of speakers. There was an ARC 160s lying on the floor minding its own business so we compared it to the Diablo using an Aurender A10 as the solo source. No pre-amp.

Oh My Goodness…. That was a mistake…!

I came in for a new pair of speakers and walked out with a new amp.

@nyev 

Have you auditioned completely redesigned and improved B&W 802D4? 

Instead od SF Amati, I would look for Franco Serblin Ktema speakers.

BW, Focal and Magico (speaking in general, don get me wrong) are not 'my cup of tea'...and prefer the Franco Serblin's models more than new SR stuff

..

Nyev, This is impossible to do because the same speaker in 5 different rooms is going to have 5 different sounds. You can predict sound stage size and depth to a degree whether a speaker is a point source or a line source. Some speakers such as dipole planars and horn are less room sensitive because they have controlled radiation patterns and do not spray sound all over the place creating a multitude of early reflections. From an amplitude perspective you can make a speaker sound any way you want it to if you get a digital room control unit with 1/3 octave EQ capability. Once you get use to using it you will know exactly what you like and how to get there with any loudspeaker. I like the bass boosted below 100 Hz up 6 dB at 20 Hz a flat midrange and the treble rolled off from 1000 Hz. By 20 kHz I am usually down 6 dB but this depends on the recording, some more, some less. With digital EQ you also are able to balance the channels so that they have the exact same frequency response curve which really sharpens the image.

All the speakers you mentioned are excellent and I agree on your evaluation of the looks of Wilsons. I like the workmanship on the Sous Fabers the best. Italians are really good at that. But, I am totally invested in ESLs so perhaps I am not the one to listen to when it comes to dynamic loudspeakers. I would tell you to get Magnepan 20.7s or Sound Labs 545 - 8s. 

@nyev you can find Alexia’s at a reasonable price used, but my bigger point was that I ended up getting rid of the 802 D3 because of bass. And yes, I would say Wilson and B&W, while not having the same signature, certainly both reside in a more neutral land. Keep in mind, that when some of the old timers here say something may be neutral, they probably lost their high frequency hearing decades ago. ;) you definitely need to hear them for yourself. 

@mayoradamwest , thanks for the clarification and yes I fully agree with the importance of hearing everything first hand.  That said, before auditioning, I wanted to get a “general consensus” of the character of these different brands.  Before I audition amplifiers I did the same thing, and it helped.  In most cases, but not all, I agreed with the consensus on how a particular amp or preamp sounded.

Speaking of aging, I know that even in my 40’s my high frequency hearing is starting to degrade, based on a test I did years ago.  The test showed where my high frequency rolloff was happening. It’s not something I notice yet, but I am scared to do another test!  Having said that it might be valuable info in selecting which speakers I choose :)

In your price range I would put the Acoustic Zen Crescendo mk2 on the short list. Impeccable sound quality!  

The paradigm persona 7f or 9h would end your search. I thought the Be mid and tweeter would steal the show but it was the quality, quantity, speed, and articulation of the bass that kept amazing me. My hegel h360 wasn't the best match for the mids and a pair of kef blades came up locally I wanted to try so I sold them. I have heard the persona properly set up and they are exceptional.

I have always loved SF’s take on what music sounds like. Who knows better than the Italians? And one of the most real sounding speakers I have heard were Rockports.

what gear / amplification was paired with the A5’s when you listened to them?

I did not demo the A5.  I’ve heard the A3, S1,S3, S5mk2, M2, M3, M6 so I am very familiar with Magico house sound.  My electronics are the Constellation Inspiration Pre+Stereo which is more neutral than your Diablo.  As mentioned before, you won’t know if you like the A5+Diablo unless you try for yourself- speaker preferences are very subjective. 

I have heard all of those. Cost no object I like the Wilson’s the best but I think they are a poor buy these days at their current price. Lots of stuff almost as good or technically better for less but Wilson’s are fun (extra bass) while being accurate enough. 

Please let us know your  findings. I found a Diablo 300 about 4 hours south of me in Austin, TX. Hoping to go check it out next month. Might make a weekend of it and go to Houston to check out a Vitus RI-101 MK 2, those 2 Integrateds have my curiosity piqued.

anotherBob, the platinum 500 Gen 2 are more than 30,000 now because of the pandemic probably about 35,000 now but they are definitely world class speakers way better than Magico and many other very high price speakers, if the monitor audio platinum were made in England still the 500 would probably cost 80 to 100,000, their driver technology is way ahead of everybody and that MPD tweeter is the best tweeter on the market right now, it goes clean to 100,000.

and I love the look of them takes 166 hours to make each cabinet 11 layers of hand polished lacquer and beautiful Stathsprey leather which is used by Rolls-Royce and other high and automobile manufacturers

I would also consider Vivid Audio and Stenheim. I carry both brands in my store as well as Bowers. The new 802D4 has plenty of bass setup correctly. Look at 801D4

Vimberg, Rockport, Magico and Estelon would be at the top of my list with that amp - resolution, transparency, body and soul.

Do explore adding a pair of quality subs like JL Fathom F112/3 - so much more than just bass, you'll find the entire spectrum enriched as well as significant gains to soundstage.

True classic Audiophile speakers Marten ,and MBL both excellent 

MBL requires more power but that 360 dispersion is like you are there and no driver spider truly lets the transparency through unlike the vast majority of box speakers.

I drive my A5's with Mac tube pre and power and believe the warmth of the tubes provides a complementary soul to the Magicos.

Bottom rounded out with a B&W DB3 placed behind my rig, fring to the side walls. Think PhilZone.

Audio Solutions Virtuoso M.

With the power your Gryphon Diablo 300 provides, if I were you I'd be tempted (depending on your room) to try a pair of Martin Logan reQUEST.

Tremendous transparency, fast, great frequency response 30-24,000 Hz +/-3dB, and they just have that WOW factor.

Ads say 200 watts will drive them just fine, my experience is just the opposite. A speaker with a 90dB/sensitivity and a 4 ohms Impedance is a lot thirstier than the manufacture suggests.

Better too much clean power, than not enough marginal power. (you can always dial the volume back, rather than clip turning it up.

Beauty is they can be had for about $2500.00 bucks.

Thanks All. Not all of these brands (Vivid and others) are available in my area. I do have one dealer that has the A5’s, Dynaudios, Paradigms, AudioVectors, and Sonus Fabers, and Monitor Audios. I think they have most of the models in my range in their showroom. Not bad for one shop!

It’s going to be a few weeks before I start auditioning. I need to sell my fancy car first to fund my purchase (priorities)…. :)

Will provide an update but it might be a bit.

Intersting comment. I live within an hour of both Wilson and Tekton Design. I own both and Tektons are fabulous speakers. Some research may be of value, and no, I hate Vegas...

one dealer that has the A5’s, Dynaudios, Paradigms, AudioVectors, and Sonus Fabers, and Monitor Audios. 
 

You are VERY fortunate.  Bring your Diablo to audition - best to give dealer time to set up which brand/models you want to demo.  Also, if dealer doesn’t have the particular brand+model, maybe demo the brand anyway to get an idea of the brand house sound.

This dealer is about a three hour trip from where I live. I might break it up into multiple days when I go and leave the Diablo at the shop if they let me. I find that intensive listening can be a mind game where you can easily fool yourself. I’ve found that in many cases your first impressions can either improve or degrade after time, once your ears and mind are given a chance to adjust. When I was amp shopping a few years back, I was dehydrated and had been rushing around. Resulted in a very useless auditioning session. I find it quite stressful as I tend to perpetually second guess my conclusion until my conclusions eventually stabilize. It’s a lot of work! Also I tend to find some sort of intolerable fault in 95% of what I test. I almost gave up before I discovered the Diablo 300. As someone said, the Diablo isn’t totally neutral and it’s slight coloration is part of the reason I love it so much. Although, one recent pro review claimed they coloration came from the intrernal DAC module and not the amp. Either way the sound is great, but I probably would have saved a ton of cash if I hadn’t found it!

Going to have to start getting in shape so I can lug that thing to the shop without tweaking my back…. Not even joking.  Although we’ll probably make it a family trip and get a hotel for a few nights, so I will have help!

The Sound Environment in Kansas City carries Rockport, Focal, Wilson and Gryphon.  You could likely hear several from your list in the same place.  

I have owned Focal and they can be analytical depending on the Amp.  I traded Sopra 2 for Wilson Sasha 2 and as much as I enjoyed the Focal's, I like the Wilson's better.  That said, I did not care for Wilson Yvette with Gryphon.  It was too warm for my taste, but you may like the sound.  

I have a friend who just got a set of Paradigm Persona 9H. I haven't heard them yet. He is super picky and says they are phenomenal. I'll try to invite myself over soon for a listen and will report my findings. 

Been using the Focal Sopra 2's for 6 years now with the Esoteric F-05 and K-03XD. Sopra 2's are stunning. Wide deep soundstage, great imaging, tight articulate bass. They don't seem analytical to me at all. I auditioned them against several of the aforementioned speakers. It was like buying a puppy. Take the one that jumps out and comes to you.

That is called chasing your tail - one component making up for another.  I hope you don't spend a lot of money, just to spend it all over again.

OP,

After decades of making audio choices I found that the best thing to do after a few minutes of critical listening. Just listen to the music… let it soak into your subconscious. Does it move you? Drop the jumping from one sound to another trying to memorize all the notable attributes. There is likely going to be a pull to certain components.

Took me years to figure this out for myself. Would not be surprised if it could help you.

Actually most of our intelligence comes from our subconscious… let it decide. Ultimately this is what is listening to music once you have your system at home… it is what connects with the music.

You should like the Wilson Benesch speakers. Extremely fast, effortless, organic, high resolution, makes the music accessible..

The highest tech speakers available. 

As you like the B + W sound and you have a larger room with high ceilings Id look at the PMC MB2Se.

"but adding some small capabilities with transparency and detail, imaging, and low end presence." This particular PMC will pick up transparency, detail and bass resolution over the B+W. I cant comment on the synergy or lack of with your kit. If there is a dealer nearby they are a great speaker likely a bit higher than your budget though.    

Several points : The first thing you need to clearly define what your speaker do today and that you want the new speaker to do as well. 
second you need to know well what your current speaker does not do and you would like the new speaker to be capable of.

Then you will probably do an analytical listening of the desired speakers to hear how they fit the bill . 
And last and most important as ghdprentice wrote you need to just listen to music forgetting your analytical analysis .

Does this speaker draw you into the music, does it provide emotional connection to the music .

It is manadatory to hear these speakers with your amplifier . 

As far as brand you will have as more advice as there is brand on earth as we have all different taste in what reproduced music should sound . 
Myself a long time ago I used to have bw 802n with ar tube gear and then while abroad bw 805d with ar tube gear .

For a few years I went to Martin Logan montis but I came back to the electrodynamic speaker as the electrostatic can’t provide enough dynamic .

I have auditioned the bw803d4 and I did purchased them .They have been in my system for 2 months . I am very happy with the sound quality . My room is 350square feet . 
I did also listened to the 801d4 ,they are fantastic .They have in my opinion excellent bass .

i did listened several time to the bw d3 série but never liked them . Much to hifi sounding . The d4 is just much more musical . 

What about harbeth 40.

Start measuring while listening to your current speakers while moving them around the room, it might help with the future purchase to know how the room sounds from every angle.

@ghdprentice , very good advice regarding focusing on enjoyment of music vs trying and failing to memorize every aspect of what you heard to contrast it to the next thing you try… Humans are known to have very poor auditory memory in that regard. I do get there in the end with my component testing, I always have, but it sometimes becomes a massive effort requiring a ton of focus. The little things you pick up in such testing matters, as strengths and weaknesses become more obvious when you eventually live with it and listen over extended periods. But I really like your philosophy. Very “sound” advice.

@jomonhifi, I wasn’t aware that you could use a media server/streamer like the Aurender as a preamp.  That approach would certainly put the ARC160S, or any Amplifier in that range, in the same budget range as the Diablo 300.  How does the Aurender work like that?  I suppose it has a built in preamp as well?  Can it accept other inputs besides itself (can you connect a turntable for example?). And, I suppose you are giving up performance but not having a dedicated preamp?

@nyev  Yes - You can absolutely use the A10 as a pre-amp. There is a setting in the app that lets you enable the volume control using the remote control or the dial on the front panel. There is only one input on the back and that’s a SPDIF input for a CD transport or any other digital source. There is no Phono-In for a TT. You can bring in a proper pre-amp at a later date. Like I said - It’s how I auditioned my ARC 160s side by side with my Diablo 300. (No slouch…!)

the 160s with the Serafino’s is really musical and satisfying. Beautiful imaging and soundstage with plenty of party…!

enjoy…!

How about Von Schweikert used VR55s or new Endeavor E5 or Endeavor SE.  Evolution Acoustics MM2.  These are state of the art in their price range $25K-$45K.  Dynamic with great bass, you are there presence.  You should audition these before plunking down 3 or 4 big ones.