Help with streamer software

What did PS Audio recommend. They are usually quite helpful and iOS friendly.

The best app I use for appending radio is Volumio that lets you add any Webradio url by allowing you to directly enter any IP like:

http://69.207.160.42:8000/index.html?sid=1

"Add" is in the 3 dots next to My Radio.

PS Audio has a 30 day or better, return policy. Comsider getting a streamer that provides all the functions.

I am a fan of Aurrender, best of class sound quality, with well respected app to control it. I own two, one on the low end and one at the top. Plop it down and your iPad takes over, radio and direct support for Qobuz and Tidal.

I don't have an Airlens, but the specs do say it is DLNA ready. There are lots of apps that support internet radio via DLNA. Perhaps approach it from that angle.

I use Logitech Media Server and it integrates my local collection, internet radio and my Qobuz subscription beautifully. LMS has a UPnP/DLNA plugin available, though I've never used it.

@fuzztone 

Thanks. I did ask PS A. They are basically counting on Roon to drive the thing. Volumia won't work for me, it requires Raspberry or Windows. 

@ghdprentice 

I know Aurender has great software and I might end up there at some point. Currently using Lumin. I have PS A's DSD Mk2 DAC, which I think is superb. I want to try the I2S interface. Aurender is USB like my Lumin.

@mlsstl 

Yes, DNLA / UPnP, but as I understand it that doesn't necessarily mean it will reside on my iPad and direct the stream to my streamer. Still checking these apps. out. 

I think some of the people are using BubbleUPnp servers with the Airlens.  I see it on my SonicTransport that runs my Roon core.  Been thinking about firing it up and see how it works.

If BubbleUPnP works it is a fine free program. It is for control only, all music goes directly through the streamer from the Web.

Aurrender all functions? Wrong, no Roon.

I figured they built it for Roon because Paul was such a fan years ago. And he does not build anything for local USB play. Magna Mano Ultra gives you i2s AND 4 USB ports,  Roon if you want it.. Built in PS (no wart.)

They will flash it to any OS you want. And it’s less money. If you can hear a galvanic isolation difference, keep it.

I put Octave radio in Volumio easily.

Linn radio is no longer in the Tune In directory.

OP,

👍 😊. Just a note, only Aurrenders most basic model is USB only. 

The ps audio provides superior output interfaces like i2s which Aurender doesn’t. As for the Aurender software, it’s terrible compared to Lightning DS, Lumin, audirvana, and of course Roon. And I would bet 99% of all Aurender users use usb output which is also a terrible interface. This is why the better dacs and streamers don’t even provide an usb interface.

Give Audirvana a try. They are improving on their gui in each release and the sound quality surpasses Aurender and other 3rd party software for sound quality, even a little bit better than Roon. Many years ago I used upnp and minimserver so my Auralic Aries Lightning DS software would interface with all my ripped/purchased music.

THe USB vs I2S debate if tremendously overblown.  While superficially I2S seems to have an advantage by seperating out the clock, the implementation of I2S has been horrible.  There is no standard and implemtation is different by every vendor.  I wouldn't be afraid to try it, it may sound great. But the truth is there is a tiny advantage and implementation matters much, much more.  Innuos buillds their streamers around USB and I'd put that up against any I2S.  My new Grimm uses AES/EBU and is fantastic.  Bottom line is, go with the one that the manufacturer built the system around.  

The negative press for USB is all about selling other options and lots of keyboard "experts" have picked up the sales pitch and run with it like the key to higher knowledge and sexual gratification.

Finally, choosing a component based on whether is has I2S support or not is like picking a state to move to based on the color of the license plate.  Focus on what really matters, not I2S.

Jerry

My Cambridge Audio CXN 60 provides great support for Internet Radio.  I have 15 favorite stations in my presets.

@carlsbad2

+1

The real key to great sound, by far is the components… not the interface. A long used, well understood connection is what components are designed around. New interfaces have the great disadvantage of maybe not catching on, or being added to other components as a an afterthought.

Why not Roon?

Why not Roon? Its good, ties in Quboz, Tidal etc, MQA, seamless and PS Audio is Roon certified. You also get a fair amount of digital EQ options too. Its pretty stable and has the best UI out there?

If Internet Radio is a priority for the OP, then a lecture on sound quality probably isn’t relevant here. Obviously the OP has a good system and knows good sound, but the best we can do with IR is 320 bps, below CD resolution and stations that broadcast at that rate are relatively rare. And there a lot of reasons not to want to faff with Roon, which I won’t go into here; it’s enough that the OP stated he doesn’t want to go there.

One of the best IR presentations used to be iTunes. It was easy to choose by country and genre. I used it first when Apple computers were my streamers, and then secondly from Apple TV. Then Apple probably realized that they could monetize this and required people to use a subscription based service such as Tune In. However since Cambridge Audio can still offer excellent free IR via their app then this is eminently doable.

  One of the simplest would be to have a PC in the system and send IR by Ethernet, using Tune In, which the OP has already stated he was amenable to using

“Why not Roon”

Cause, it is not the best sounding software audio. The devil is in the details, those who have compared it, knows Innuos Sense and Aurender Conductor UI is much more faithful and natural sounding than ROON.

+1, @mahler123 

If OP focus is IR than pretty much any software will do just fine! 

@mahler123 ​@lalitk

I did compare Roon to other apps and found it lacking in sound quality. Not vastly, but it was definitely there. Regarding sound quality of IR, Jazz24 has two streams, one is MP3, the other is redbook. This is my primary music source from IR.

Regarding having a Mac or Lose as a source, nope. Talk about poor sound quality....

@ghdprentice

I2S is not a me-too add-on for PS Audio. If I am not mistaken they are the original proponents. Regarding compatibility, did you notice that both my DAC and this new streamer are from the same manufacturer? I think it is pretty unlikely that there is a compatibility issue here. In fact that is the only reason I am giving this streamer a try.

@carlsbad2

Jerry, I2S is central to the PS Audio digital gear. I’m giving it a try. If it doesn’t cut the mustard it is going back. But I do love the DSD Mk2 DAC. I have been using USB from my Lumin to my Mk2 DAC, and it sounds very good. I want to see if I2S to I2S is an improvement.

I hope the PS Audio I2s is compatible with your DAC. It wasn't with my Gustard X26 PRO.

@markmuse I too recently heard the PS Audio Directstream MK3 DAC in my home and was very impressed (even though I went with another [more expensive] option).  I didn't even notice that it had I2S.  

To be clear, I'm not saying avoid I2S.  Sounds like PS Audio is building around it so I'm sure they've done a good job... so now you have to hope that the other end of the cable is good.  I guess PS Audio Streamer to PS Audio DAC would be well implemented but you didn't like the streamer.  Best of luck.

Thanks for your first hand report on their streamer.

Jerry

I second @mahler123. I have the Cambridge CXN V2. The price point is hard to beat right now on it and it streams everything I could possibly want. I have my network library plugged in, my CD transport runs through it, and with the selection of streaming radio stations from my local public radio to German techno, BBC, and Radio Paradise’s 3 channels I’m not lacking in choices. I find the app easy to use and CA continues to update it.

@markmuse I have been considering the purchase of the AirLens also just for streaming Qobuz.  I just recently added an Aurender N20 to my system that will also stream Qobuz, so I am not convinced that the AirLens would be a step up as far as sound quality goes.  If I had to have another APP to stream Qobuz with the AirLens that would give me another reason to pause on the decision.  Thoughts, anyone?

The OP mentioned, "I know I can stream to my iPad and bump that over to the streamer but the quality problems are well known."

Uh, would someone please tell me the short version of what those "quality problems" are?  Thanks. I'd like to know before going down a similar rabbit hole.

If we are talking about lossy Internet Radio, do those "quality problems" really matter that much?  I mean, the OP could get a cheap $500 streamer from NAD, Cambridge, Bluesound, or God-forbid, a $220 WiiM, and do IR all day long from Tunein, vTuner, or even custom URL streams like the one from Octave Records.

@vandy357 

I downloaded Jplay to test. Using it now on my Lumen and it is very good. Full featured and sounds great. The Airhead is due here on Wednesday. But if you have the N20 now I wouldn’t change unless you also have a PS A DAC, in which case it might be worth a try. The N20 is very nice.

@bipod72 

Maybe I should get the CXN V2 just to play IR. First I have to discover if the Airhead is indeed better with my DAC than my Lumin, then go from there.

Thanks all!

@markmuse I do have the PS Audio MK2 DAC, that is the only reason I am even considering the purchase.  I would be able to finally use the i2s connection with this thing, according to Paul that does wonders for the sound.  The only thing in my system that is not PS Audio is the streamer, speakers and cabling.  I know PS has a great return policy, but I just hate to send stuff back and would rather be reasonably sure the purchase will be worth it before I pull the trigger on something.  They have a pretty good sale going on right now, until the end of the week I think, so I have a few more days to think about it.

@vandy357 

Same as me, except my DAC is the only other PS A piece I have. And I'm with you on the return policy. I hate to do it, but will if necessary.

@markmuse 

I just don't know that I am going to get any better than what the N20 delivers, so that is my biggest reason for the pause.  I did try to A-B the difference in the sound by comparing the internal storage on the N20 to streaming Qobuz through it and I thought it was pretty much a wash.  About half of the songs I used for the comparison sounded better from the storage while the other half sounded better using Qobuz, and the difference to my ears was not enough to go out and spend more money on, unless I can get Qobuz to sound better.  Just so happens that you brought up the topic, so now I get to pick other's brains to see what they think.  Of course I have been asking the guys at PS lots of questions also.  I don't know, I am not sold yet but 400 bucks off right now has me thinking.

@vandy357

The AirLens is designed to mate with PS Audio DAC’s. Since you own their DAC, I say it’s worth the hassle of auditioning in your system. My experience tells me manufacturers touting on higher or better performance based on proprietary connectivity doesn’t always pans out. Case in point, EMM Labs NS1 and DA2 DAC. That’s at $35K combo I’ve owned it in the past, guess what; I preferred the sound of Aurender N10 with DA2 using AES cable. Sent back NS1 after 30 days of auditioning using their proprietary EMM Optilink interface, which supposed to sound better than AES/SPDIF and USB.

And with AirLens, you still a separate PC to run Roon Core on your network. 

@lalitk 

You are probably right and I probably will, my curiosity will more than likely win out as usual.  I don't stream that much but with the availability of so much music on Qobuz that may change.  I have been trying to avoid Roon, my Aurender doesn't support it, but that may likely be something to try also.  Oh well, if it doesn't sound any better than the stream from the N20 I can always send it back.  Thanks for the input.

@vandy357 

While the AirLens is 'Roon Ready' you really don't need it. JPlay (2wk free trial, $50/year) is an excellent sounding and full featured app for a number of OS, including iOS. That is what I will be using. I'm really quite interested in your take on the comparison with the N20.

I am trying to learn as much as possible about Roon but I am a little confused about how it works. Can I just download the Roon software to my laptop or tablet and stream Qobuz through that, or do I need a Nucleus in order to use it? I just read a note on the PS website that you can stream Qobuz through the Airlens, but they only mention though Roon. If I can do this with just a software download I may do it, but if I have to also get a Nucleus I will probably just pass on the whole thing. Streaming Qobuz is the only reason I am even considering the Airlens. I have to admit, the comparison with the N20 would be interesting.

@vandy357

To use Roon you need a computer of some sort, like a Nucleus. You cannot just download and use the software. And then of course there is the monthly subscription fee. Yes, PS A seems to be relying upon Roon to provide the interface. Give JPlay a try with your N20 to get a feel for it. I am now using it with my Lumin U2 Mini to stream Qobuz. It sounds the same as the Lumin software but seems to be more complete in dealing with Qobuz. This is the software I will be using with the AirLens. My AirLens is due here tomorrow. I can let you know how I like it and how well it works with JPlay. I expect it will work just fine. 

The whole you need Roon in order to stream Qobuz through the Airlens is probably a deal breaker for me.  I have posed this same question to PS but have not heard back from them yet.  I guess I will just have to be happy streaming Qobuz through the N20.  I am pretty happy with the Aurender Conductor APP but I may check out JPlay though.

@vandy357 

You can run Roon Core on any PC to try out Roon with AirLens. You may have heard, Roon is also coming to Aurender. I have dabbled with JPLAY trial and it’s a nice app with Qobuz integration. But honestly, I did not see the need to pay $50/per year for an app that offers nothing better than Conductor. The Conductor app is a superb app and offers everything you need without jumping through hoops. Speaking from experience, N20 is a solid performer and one needs to spend twice as much for marginal but appreciable gains to outdone N20. I just upgraded from N20 to N30SA, and I’m done :-) 

OP

you could worse than just getting the CXN as an Internet Radio Tuner.  It also works really well with AirPlay and Chromecast, although it not possible, I think to Chromecast from an iPad, and you probably won’t be happy with AirPlay.  However, just streaming from the CXNinto your DAC is pretty good sound,and may obviate the need for something flashier

@lalitk 

I did read something about Aurender getting Roon, just don't know when that will happen.  My concern is the Airlens will only be a marginal improvement over the N20 that it would not be worth the investment, or the cost of yet another subscription.  I have really just tried to avoid Roon all together, Qobuz and a way to stream it is all I really need, I already have that with the N20.  Even if Aurender does get Roon I probably won''t buy into it.

@markmuse 

I would like to hear your thoughts on the Airlens when you get it up and running, thanks again for the input everyone.

I also have an AirLens coming. PS Audio explained that Qobuz is about to release Qobuz Connect at (approximately) the turn of the year. With it, you'll be able to stream Qobuz without having to go thru Roon, much like Tidal Connect. I"m planning to use Tida or something on a PCl until that comes out.

@lalitk ….now that last word “ done “….. really cracked me up…… i will set my timer….. do so appreciate ya !

@tomic601

LOL! I’m maxed out on upgrades as far as digital goes. Now focusing on putting together a nice TT setup….round n round we go!

Happy Holidays to you! 

I been a ROOn user for several years. I don’t need it as my streamer,BDP-pi can stream Qobuz and has the app for Radio Paradise that I primarily use. I often think I should stop Roon and dump the core hardware. But everytime I sit down and front of my rig and start utilizing the software the way it was intended I decide to keep it.  It is amazing what you will learn about people in the music industry. 

If you just want to lookup and artist and stream their content or just want to stream radio ROON is not the solution. If you want to sit down in front of you rig and have a vast library at your finger tips with the interface to navigate it...ROON is the solution.

Note ROON allows me to stream to 2 other locations in the house (office and garage)

It did take some work to get ROON to sound as good as my BDP-pi but I am right at the door with it now. And if I want to really squeeze out that last little bit its easy to bypass ROON.

@dickieboy 

That puts things into a whole new perspective, for me at least.  I may be back in the game if that is correct.

@markmuse 

Judging by some posts on the PS Audio forum, the AirLens uses a Conversdigital board for its streaming capabilities. That means you should be able to use the mconnect Control HD app on iOS devices to stream internet radio via vTuner. Hopefully the stations you listen to are on their list.

Carlsbad2,

"implementation of I2S has been horrible.  There is no standard and implementation is different by every vendor."

While technically true, many vendors do offer I2S that is configurable, Denafrips (and I believe Musician) comes to mind

@dickieboy  @vandy357 

Listening to it now. Works perfectly with JPlay. Sonically, sans burn-in and with the supplied HDMI cable, it is a bit more immediate and slightly more detailed (better textures) than the Lumin. Kinda unfair to start judging this early, but certainly nothing wrong with the sound.

Thanks for the update @markmuse sounds like I may have to try it out after all.

@markmuse 

Which Lumin you own?  Thanks again for posting your feedback on AirLens. 

@lalitk  U2 Mini. More TC as things settle in. 

I think it's interesting that the OP committed to hardware without knowing what software he wanted to run on it.  I don't mean that in a critical way - just that my personality would never allow such a leap of faith. 

I will just add that I do not feel that Roon sound is inferior.  Rather than no one has set up Roon as they recommend, in order to do a proper test, since the configuration of other systems to compare would either be apples to oranges or require a lot of duplicate gear. 

@jji666 

I knew I would be using JPlay for Qobuz. The question was and remains how do I access internet radio. There does not seem to be a solution short of TuneIn (or similar) via Airplay, or Roon - neither of which are satisfactory.

I use mconnect and mcontol for streaming and radio with the Airlens, no problem