Thanks all for your input, the advice and recommendations are greatly appreciated. Been a busy couple weeks but will report back soon; have gotten out to hear a few things and starting to put a plan together.
Help me build out my first system
Hi All,
New Audiogon member here, been a lurker for some time; thanks for all the tremendous info! I’m in the process of building out my first system and am hoping for some recommendations on streamer/dac and preamp. A friend has been kind enough to set me up with a McCormack DNA-1 (not yet in my possession) and a pair of Focal/JM Labs Electra 926s from a client who wanted to upgrade.
At this point I’m trying to put together two sets of options: First, which components might really make the setup sing, not worrying much about budget (without going too nuts). And second, assuming a budget around $3000-$4000, what’s the best I can do?
The setup will live in a 14’x24’ room, and I’m in the process of building some panels for appropriate room treatment. Tidal is currently my preferred source, but am open to change based on compatibility req’s or being convinced of a better alternative for this application. I’d also like to allow for incorporation of a new turntable down the road.
Am I thinking about this the right way? Thanks for your thoughts
38 responses Add your response
First I have no experience with your current equipment, but you have gotten some good recommendations. If you have $4,000, here is a good start: Schitt Freya+ preamp - $850 Denafrips Ares 15th DAC - $1,150 (or better yet a used Denafrips Pontus II $1,400) Used BlueSound Node 130 (not 2 or 2i) $375 (or better yet used Innuous streamer $1,400) Decent cables - Zavfino makes great affordable entry level cables, Arcadia interconnects, Nova speaker cables. Supra cables makes very good entry level data cables; Excalibur USB cable $110, Cat8 ethernet cable $50 2 meters. All of that would be around your $4,000 budget, and each component could easily be upgraded as you can afford later.....but this would be a very musical starter system that you'd love to listen to
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Since you will be using the DNA-1 I can relate. About 15 or more years ago I had a DNA -1 with rev a mods mated with a Rogue 99 magnum preamp and Joseph Audio Rm25si. That was an awesome system should be in your budget.
Rogue to my ears is a little solid state sounding but with the McCormack it was a great Match with the warm mid range heavy DNA. I loved that amp. McCormack’s are also known to match with Vandersteen speakers.
The Rogue takes 4 6sn7’s I used 2 Ken Rad vt231’s and 2 silver label RCA’s with great results but I threw other tubes in there also. The Rogue responded very well to tube rolling.
If all this is over budget you could try a dac with a volume control but that’s a gamble. Sometimes it works sometime it’s bad. I’ve had some amps sound better without a preamp than with one you never know till you try, good luck. |
firstly the real question is why would you even need a preamp these days? you would need a preamp if you are using a turntable or a home theater if not you need a streamer with volume control and that's it. we are very partial to the atoll st200 a dac streamer with analog volume control and one set of analog inputs very musical plays tidal quobuzz spotify,amazon music bluetooth internetradio roon capable basically all the streaming sources most people need, has a great free app Dave and Troy Audio intellect NJ Atoll dealers
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Neutrality is important for me too. Two of the very best preamps for a neutral sound are (I also own both):
There is a review online comparing the 2 preamps. The reviewer preferred the warmer Serene I prefer the BM preamps. Both are great. I have tried a few DACs, costing $700 - $15000. I have now come to a happy result with the Schitt Yggi+ OG (neutral) and the Yggi+ LIM (warm-ish). I called up Schitt and spoke to a musician that was working there to discuss DACs. He hated the LIM because it was a warm and limited on the top end. One reason a lot of people like it, but as a musician he said he hated it. He then told me that the best DAC he had ever hear was the Schitt Yggi+ OG. He told me to buy the last one ever made and I would not be sorry. He was right, though it took a month of heavy playing to really break-in. The replacement for the OG is called the Yggi+ More is Better (MIB). It is supposed to be close to the OG sound and not the LIM sound. Both the preamp and DAC suggestion will be around $6k new though on the used market the cost should be around $4k. BTW - I can only vouch for the latest Yggi+| DACs. They have been around for 10 years, but their modular design is upgradeable. So, in the used market they maybe older units. Schitt and Benchmark support home trials. BTW2 - I said consider the HPA4 over the LA4 because I plan to use my HPA4 with |
@bgross there is indeed no substitute, I’ll certainly be making the rounds before pulling any triggers! Thanks for some additional names, I know there are many great resources mentioned around here. |
@grislybutter Under a different circumstance I might agree with you. I work in the trades so happen to have the materials I’d need in my garage from past jobs. My setup will be on the first floor and basement ceiling below is unfinished so easy access, and I don’t need to bring somebody in to do it. For the cost of two hours of my time, it seems silly not to do it. Some find it totally unnecessary, some won’t live without it; I can see the merits so why not, if for no other reason than peace of mind (or to do some testing and prove myself wrong)! However an attempt at save my time and money is always appreciated! |
@boxcarman wrote:
Couldn’t agree more! Working in the trades and as a musician, I’ve had the good fortune to work on some extraordinary media/listening rooms and spend time in some great recording studios…some cursory measurements in rooms with/without the panels hung yield some very stark differences. At the moment I happen to have enough Corning 703 on hand to cover my whole house. I’ve experimented with hanging mass loaded vinyl for lower frequencies, covered by a slatted wood enclosure to add some diffusion. Measuring and tweaking a room is a great joy. Have been fighting the good fight on this one for a while with my bass guitar amplification! Look forward to learning more about others’ experiences…no doubt there are some existing discussions on here. |
@soix @pureclarity I did come across that thread recently, and has been noted. Much appreciated. My cost of acquiring the DNA-1 makes the risk worthwhile, perhaps I will go for an upgrade down the line. I know there have been discussions on the merits of upgrade vs. replacement. For another day |
@kdammeyer Wrote:
Another reason for multiple circuits besides dedicated power draw. see my previous post dedicated power circuits here. Mike
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This one costs nothing. Have one of you experienced listener friends over and help tweak the room for wall and corner reflections. Even the top-notch systems will sound bad if you don't address this issue. Just go to an audio show and experience a hastily set up hotel room versus a room designed for high quality sound. Some audio stores' listening rooms will show you what a difference it makes. I have heard inexpensive systems in a well designed room outperform others costing much more. |
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@pureclarity Yes, the DNA-1 is subject to the input board failing due to age and it’s basically fatal when it happens and requires a complete rebuild of the amp. This happened with my DNA-0.5 and there’s no telling how long it will last, but at some point it will fail. The OP can call SMcAudio (who designed/built the amp) for more info if desired.
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You might consider purchasing the book 'The Complete Guide to High End Audio' by Robert Harley. I believe it to be the single best book for a beginner getting into this hobby. Much info on the development of a vinyl system. Regarding equipment purchase, my advise would be to be to purchase the Bluesound Streamer and spending the greater fraction of your budget towards a line level preamp. Since you are starting with quality amplification and speakers I would want a preamp to be on par with them. Once you have become acquainted with your system the Node can be upgraded with a purchase of a linear power supply and outboard DAC as funds become available (there are many threads herein regarding the Node). Since you are going to have two dedicated lines I would allocate one for amplifier, preamp, and vinyl needs. The other for digital components (again much on dedicated lines herein on this forum). Good luck with your quest. Please keep us posted as you advance.
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Why don't you call a reputable dealer and speak to them. Share your system goals and see what they can put togther on your budget. TMR, Holt Hill Audio, Upscale Audio amongst others get mentioned here on this site for a reason. They have knowledgeable staff that can help you on this journey. So depending on where you live, find a spot closest or, shipping isn't even a thing anymore so call them all. There's no substitute for in-shop auditions but for some, who don't readily have that option, this is a start. Lots of knowledgeable members here but traditionally they can only stand behind what they have direct experience with. Just my opinion, GL! |
The plan is to run two dedicated 20A circuits. @janewyman can you explain the added benefit of having four (presumably one for each component)? I can’t imagine it’s an issue of power draw, is it for isolation purposes? I’d like to wire in a snap switch or other contact switch to physically break the connection to the breaker/panel when not in use. Anybody familiar with something like this? |
I use a single run of 8AWG on a 20amp breaker to a L15-30R. A L15-30P with 8 gauge feeds a 4 gang box of 20 amp receptacles.
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Oh no, that's bad advice. I'm all for multiple dedicated lines - although many believe one should suffice - but a 20A line is the maximum you want to install. Here's a 120VAC 20A receptacle, which will accommodate almost any audio component:
Here's a 30A receptacle. Your gear isn't likely configured for this:
What I do like is derating the line, such as using 8AWG wire for a 20A circuit with a 20A breaker. But using a 20A receptacle with a 30A breaker wouldn't meet code in my state.
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Since you’re just starting out you might consider something like this Auralic Altair:
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650106287-auralic-altair-g1/
It combines a Streamer and Dac and can be used as a preamp if needed. That and a good preamp and you’re all set to go. On the preamp front I prefer tubes and honestly these days most tubed preamps are not overly warm. But will improve your sound in terms of both imaging and instrumental color. |
@grislybutter Great advice, I’m lucky to have some great advisors locally, without whom I’d not have made it this far. But given everyone’s advice is colored by their preferences, to some extent, I thought I’d cast a wider net here! Looking forward to connecting with some new folks. Drinking it all in and hope to ask some more pointed questions after diving into recommendations from @soix (many thanks!) and engaging in some more due diligence. Thanks all for the welcome, excited to join you on the journey! |
Given that I can very highly recommend this Bryston BP-6 preamp. I used it for many years with excellent results with my McCormack DNA 0.5 (Rev A) amp and the sound was very transparent and open yet never harsh with a clear and expansive 3D soundstage. Here’s a nice used piece at a good price (with remote) for sale now… For the DAC I currently own this Musician Pegasus that would likewise work well because it’s very neutral yet as an R2R DAC is also quite musical. Here’s one used (not mine BTW) at a good price… https://www.ebay.com/itm/266870218871 If you go this route you could add something like a Denafrips Iris DDC down the road that improves both the clock and allows for a superior i2S connection with the Pegasus that provides a significant performance improvement for not much $$$ if you buy used — that’s what I did. For the streamer and if you’re trying for a lower budget I’d get a Bluesound Node (model 130 or later so you get the USB output) as it’s a good streamer for the money and has good software, and you can add a better external linear power supply again for another significant performance boost that’ll rival much more expensive streamers for relatively little $$$. If you bought all this you’d be in excellent shape for around $3000 although you’ll still need some good cables. Just one idea FWIW, and best of luck. |
I had several mentors here who helped me with a lot of decisions. It might be a silly (boyscout/AA/etc.) idea to hook people up here - the beginners with pros for these types of questions. I feel that you will get pulled in so many directions with so many people's preferences, it's hard to make sense of the feedback. You need to be very clear about what you want, there are unlimited options. I also feel that starting with a very focused, narrowly scoped question can accomplish a lot more than a wide open "request for information" |
I should add that I listen mostly to jazz and rock in all varieties (Ellington, Mingus, Weather Report, Frisell, Bowie, Jeff Beck, Grateful Dead) as well as some Devo-type stuff and especially love live recordings. I do have an extensive library of Dead shows on my hard drive/MacBook Pro with M1Pro I’d like to be able to listen to. |
Thanks, soix. I generally prefer a more neutral sound. As a musician with some recording and mixing experience it’s important to me to retain as much intentionality in any given production. I enjoy my Yamaha HS7 powered monitors for near-field listening, if that provides any insight. I am open to tubes, and new/used is of less concern than getting the best bang for my buck…the used path has obviously been good to me so far. |
You’ve got pretty neutral components so far, so the rest really depends on your sonic preferences/goals. A biggie is if you prefer a tonally warmer, fuller, richer sound or a more neutral, detailed type of sound, and are you open to tubes and are you looking for new or used? Lotsa different directions you could go here, so it really depends on what specifically you’re looking for. |
