I think low and modest cost components offer more value than ever...so much of the expensive gear if bought used is easy to sell for little loss a few years later...and I remember a manufacturer of an extremely expensive amp saying he expected to sell 2 or 3 a year worldwide, so these prices are not really representative of the industry...
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One only need look at reviews posted 3-4 years ago to see that prices for many components have gone up 10%-20% over the past few years, due to the factors cited by many in this thread - supply and demand, economic conditions, supply chain pressures, etc. . But if you look back at a source like Stereophile Recommended component listings from the 1990s, prices then and now don't seem out of line. If anything, today's value components seem like a greater bargain compared to what I see listed from the 90s. The ultra-high-end has always been focused on a limited number of buyers who either have the resources or the appetite to tie up a significant portion of their net worth in an audio system. They can have at it, but for my purposes I'm pretty psyched about the ability to put together a truly musical system at just about any price point. |
Gas prices are not Trump's nor Biden's nor Millard Filmore's fault. Oil refiners curtailed production due to the fall off in demand over the past several years. Refiners will ramp up production only to the point where they wont materially hurt current margins when balanced with their desired production and profitability goals.
Money has been printed since the beginning of recorded time...why is anyone surprised? The money supply will always grow as population grows. If you are concerned about the value of your savings, Bitcoin is always an option I guess. |
It's not a surprise. It's just that the magnitude of money printing lately that is alarming along with total US debt. If you look at the US debt gragh, it just took off.
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I hope this statement isn’t viewed as too political, it is just my opinion. From the first day of the new administration, it seems everything was done to curtail energy independence. Was it because it was the opposite of what the previous administration was doing? My wife seems to think so. But why? Everything we eat, buy or do are related to some type of transportation and the higher that cost the more everything will cost. Electric cars, windmills, solar power are still very much in its infant stage. Heck someday I may even buy an electric car. When and if they are a more reliable and a cost-effective choice. But for now, we must control our own country’s needs. And that includes not relying on other governments. The world is just too volatile. Just MY Humble Opinion. BTW, I do have Geothermal heating and cooling in my home. This is because for me it was cost effective. ozzy |
There is absolutely zero reason for the financial trail of evidence to be that complex. It’s a purposely complexified fluffer box of smoke and mirrors. That much is obvious. Regarding finance and monetary aspects of the Fed, it is as GWHB is reported to have said, "The truth? If the people knew the truth, we’d be hung off the nearest lamppost!" the entire scope of the Jekyll island story (for lack of a better simple encompassing reference that can be researched and dug into) clearly illustrates that it is still a form of hard imperialism with oligarchs, as a running pack, that exist behind this wall of purposely obscured fluff around the dollar and world banks that serves as a cover for unrestricted oligarchy that is totally out of control. The idea of democracy has just been a way of making the reins and tasps seem non existent, when in fact, it is deeply enforced for those who accidentally or purposely touch it’s edges and limits. With the current situation regarding covid and now the Ukraine, it is obvious to the trained mind, that it’s ass is sticking out and you can see the muscles and motions beneath the skin. It’s visible, for those who actually look. and it’s a very sick and sad feeling, to witness it, at best. Or, completely sane and in total control, if you strip any aspect of human empathy and reason from the conversation and analysis. If a person can’t explain the true fundamentals of what world finance and the US petro-dollar is to a 10 year old, a person is either lying or deeply misinformed or uninformed, or incapable of decoding the purposeful wall of fluff themselves. Just my experience...... 🙂
FYI, it is a VERY useful topic for an audio form, for the reason that the discussion and thus the fundamental and important revelations for all, are not taking place anywhere else. Akin to the idea of ’protest zones’ for the white house. Where one can protest, in a walled off box, in a small wooded area, some 10 miles out of town Unheard and unseen. Where the system that is the problem, won’t have to deal with the public becoming informed by the existence of the protest and the conversation around the protest. The forums (yes, in this case audio forums) are the only darned place left where the connected and concerned --- actually meet. The rest is just controlled propaganda from different parties and players, like parasites fighting over what part of the host they get to control via their attempts to be hypnotically repetitive and Orwellian in their misinformation. Where in said major media.. individuals do their darnedest to hang on to their sense of comfort via the self hypnotic relfective that is their chosen set of foolishness to listen to. Like bad marriages/relationshsips that they don’t possess the emotional will to separate themselves from.
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A brilliantly inspired retort. Actually it’s a mini masterpiece from start to finish. I wish I’d written it. Yes, it will be uncomfortable for some, and for others, still operating behind the ’smoke and mirrors’, it might make little sense intially, but that’s even more reason to read it twice, is it not? You really do owe it to yourself. |
Spot on post ! Thanks very much.... Free speech is dying not by being erased so much or directly forbidden every where like in Soviet or China more like being cornered in a box and counter attack by Strategically systematic encompassing controls in all publishing spaces......And sometimes by irrational and self destructive laws like in Canada where even speech is constrained... Even in audiogon forums, members are erased from existence WITHOUT explanation like my friend oldhvymec was.... No traces.... No recourse it seems....No explanations... And perhaps i could understand in some way why M.C. was erased but why this humorous poster like the old mechanic could have been banned and for what undisclosed motives ? No answers... Perhaps i will be banned too? 😁
No respect for human being everywhere in North -America despite the pretense to BE the free world...It is tragically untrue now ar at least way less true then it was in 1945.....I will not argue with mature adults acting like "children" who will contradict this visible evidence... The king has no clothes anyway... What we see is an increasing way toward a more controlling society with a conditioning of individuals meeting and classified in crowds with many conflicting flags... Power divide to reign indeed...Simple Macchiavellian rule... The best trick is to make a slave who want and dream to be one at all cost, like in Orwell and in Mandeville books...
Like said a famous Greek philosopher: " Point me a man now " ?
«No free thinker walk always to the left or always to the right, when you trace your own road you dont look back»- An anonymus defeated politician
To answer this thread the cost of hi-fi has never increased like the prize of butter in Canada.... From 3 dollars few years ago to 9 canadian dollars at regular price.... Then..... Hifi is cheap compared to butter.... For most of us.... Some here dont even know the cost of butter....Anyway wait a few months and you will discover deals in hi-fi used section....Guess why? 😁 |
+1 @mahgister Check your inbox |
I always enjoy reading your posts..please enlighten though. By what date will something happen that causes what to happen? I enjoy circling a date certain on the calendar to ensure I'm paying attention. |
Finance is like Audio very complex to understand at FIRST sight ! A field of science or an aspect of life are always difficult to understand but way less if we replace MANY complementary perspectival views on reality by a singular inforced MAP ... This is what is the central banking system... His modern incarnation after the foundation of the B.I. S. is understandable easily if we know that...
In audio the many necessary perspectical views on audiophile experience was focused and conditioned by technology progress for good reasons yes, but way more importantly by gear marketing INSTEAD of acoustic/psycho-acoustic (A./P.A.)science investigation in most audio threads... Here also the electronical design map fetichism was hiding sound reality A./P.A. experience in the consumers mind ... |
I was alluding to an EVIDENT trend in inflation not to a specific date....
By the way thanks for your more than generous appreciation of me....
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@nonoise did you finally get that Technics SU700M2.....? what ever it is? I agree this thread is all pugnacious gas
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By the way i try to not classify all people in a thread in the same bag...It is better to let bags empty and try to understand each other on INDIVIDUAL terms.... There is not ONLY " drivel in this thread", sorry....The only reason why someone can say this is because he does not know what a mirror was created for...Not to admire our own face but to look in our eyes what we cannot see in the eyes of others...The beam and the straw... i have never see or read an entire thread constituted by dodderers or drools only.. there is different people NEVER only dodderers ...I prefer to speak to ONE individual and not declared all people in a thread only dodderers .... The only dodderers are those who confuse their map with reality... Listening to others perspective and discussing sincerely is important, discussing with pugnacious quality is OK if we treat each other well... ... I apologize but i feel that i had to say that... |
First: i believe in Helmholtz acoustic method , even if i myself created my own tweaks also at NO COST...But my main acoustic grid devices are Helmholtz devices, PURE SCIENTIFIC DEVICE IN ACOUSTIC.... And like i already said all "tweaks" dont make a method even if they work and some work because i experiment them , BUT tweaks dont replace and will never replace proper acoustic/psycho-acoustic science and acoustic devices control ... This is what i said if you read my posts... Second: If you dont see many corporates worldwide conspiracies now behind "politics" you need help... Ask help from your children years school teacher it will be enough ... 😁😊Or buy books... Third : putting people who advocate any "tweak" in the same bag with some alleged deluded conspirationist, this category exist for sure, is borderline trolling INSTEAD of thinking.... Is it clear?
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Anyone making this sophistic assimilation resemble more to a troll than to a benevolent poster.... Raising cables from the floor, which i dont do anyway , has nothing to do with the B.I.S history for example .... But i am sure that at your level of thinking you dont have a clue about B.I.S. history for example...Bank of international settlements...Or Blackrock...
Who confuse the corner where he painted himself into with truth? A clue: it is not your neighbour sometimes no..... Think by yourself and dont put all people you dont like in the same bag for the sake of labelling them and insulting them ... Sarcasm is not always an intelligence sign... Benevolence is a better sign on the long run ....Try it....
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Mine are off the floor, the carpet isn't wool though. How do you clean your floor if the cables are just laying there? I'm guessing not to often. The only sure conspiracy, "dirty cables". It's only a conspiracy if the cable fairy cleans your cables and NOT mine. :-)
it certainly seems rational that anyone who believes in raising cables off a wool carpet would also believe in worldwide conspiracies, absolutely |
If people did not buy this stuff the price would come down. Unfortunately, the 1%ers are determining what the rest of us can afford. On the other hand Rolexes are ugly boat anchors. There are hundreds of good looking watches that are much less expensive that tell time just as accurately. Audio is no different. There is a lot of equipment that does not appeal to the rich that is every bit as good as the equipment they are interested in. The Parasound JC 1+ is a great example. |
@mijostyn +1 |
Great post! i concur....
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Nice @nonoise did read a review last week giving it some high praise. Enjoy it! |
The world of technology is a tribute to man’s ability to learn and contribute to those before him. So whether it be audio, financial or medical, the progress has been incredible. But those whom are ignorant and uneducated in the disciple but they feel they know better are the reasons civilizations fail. I am thinking of The Story Of Civilization (Will Durant). The complexity of the world (given by the hard working and well educated people starts to look like a conspiracy theory… because all must be obvious to the arm chair expert. As Will Durant. saw… civilizations rise like a spark and flame… but fizzle and die in ignorance.
My partner and I have five graduate degrees between us. We probably spend four or more hours learning each day (for me more) for the last 35 years… we know little… but quite a bit in several disciplines. Technology, finance, economics, philosophy, history, cognitive development… astronomy. Each day is an opportunity to learn more. |
The increase in audio prices starters long before the current inflation crisis. There just isn’t a large market for two channel audio. Economy of scale has been lost. Ordinary consumers will spend the extra money for to hear bullets whizzing behind them during movies, and the audio produced by these systems are more than adequate for casual listening. The elites who lead our hobby have been compromised by their loss of advertising by extolling the virtues of 10000 dollar phono preamps that can be outperformed by a 10 dollar op amp, and 1000 wpc mono locks fed by 8000 power cords. My 20k system at a bricks and mortar store could be spent on a tonearm and cartridge in the blink of an eye |
Seems like what one can buy for $1,000 - $3,000 (entire system) is far, far better than what was on the market 10 years ago - well in excess of inflation. “Mass market” quality and fundamentals seem to advance with crazy speed To me, audio actually seems like a bargain with a marketing problem As to serious $, who cares? That stuff was always (a) fun and/or technically interesting to read about; or (b) made for customers who don’t care about price All consumer markets have segmentation. The question is whether one’s segment is improving over time, and that seems an obvious “yes” for all audio segments, at least to me Would love to hear differing views, understanding of customers etc - good discussion Have a great day! |
New "Hi End" audio equipment is very high now. People talk about how the prices back in the day was reasonable. But, that is also relative to what a person could afford back then. The salaries were very much lower back then also. So, it's all relative. But, the used audio equipment market is still fairly strong price wise. Especially when a manufacturer discontinues a very good piece and replaces it with a new piece. Then the people in the amp of the month club will sell their piece to replace it with the newer piece. Great for some of us, because that piece they are selling was exactly what we were looking for but couldn't afford until the replacement piece came out. Cars on the other hand have gotten ridiculous. seriously. especially used cars. That is just greed plain and simple. I remember after college in the very early 80's I purchased a top end Yamaha system (don't laugh, it was quite nice) and I think Klipsh speakers. I enjoyed that very much and thought it was "high end". Then found out about Mark Levinson, Thiel, etc. and others and found a totally different level. But, the prices back then for a newly printed Engineer was still out of range for me. So, to me it's all relative. Unless one has the money for new out of the box products, then the used market is the way to go in audio. But, if you have a good relationship with a reputable audio dealer, say for example Randy at Optimal Enchantment in Santa Monica (now retired), who would let you take equipment home for in-home demonstrations, that is best. Randy would simply put an album on the system, sit back while you listened to your preferred equipment and smile knowingly. enjoy |
@ghasley , whatever news outlet you are watching you need to dump. What you think you believe is 100% wrong. With lower gas prices utilization increased. The reason Biden stopped the pipeline, fracking and exploration was to increase prices to curtail usage and CO2 production. It worked but it is torturing the economy. Wouldn't it be nicer just to make electricity cheap? Then people will switch to electric home heating and electric cars all by themselves and happily so. I suggest everyone read up on Molten Sodium Reactors. |
Well do what I intend to do. Move to Lisbon Portugal. AND……Just about perfect weather as it is here in San Francisco . Just plug that SS check into one of their banks and getbavD7 visa. Then buy some higher end equipment. |
@sandydennis11 - Totally agree about the weather here in SF, just not quite enough rain! 🌂 |
That certainly qualifies as a world wide conspiracy theory. So, what tweaks have you installed lately? Were they effective? BTW, didn't the previous President remove the federal barriers to the pipeline on his first day in office? And over four long years the pipeline wasn't built. Do you have another conspiracy theory to explain that? And to add some historical facts. In 2017 the U.S. was the largest producer of crude oil in the world. In 2021 the U.S. was still the largest producer. Somehow producing all that oil is "torturing" the economy. |
Has the cost of Hi-Fi gotten a bit too much ? Yes less than butter and less than the stupidity of politicians around Occidental world in general... How is it? When someone paint himself in a corner you have it.... ----By the way there is NO universal conspiracy... One of the law of stupidity is that «Stupid people are those
----But there exist many colliding conspiracacies... because there is another law of stupidity that define «Bandits being those who http://www.cantrip.org/stupidity.html
----- the two other categories of people are for Carlo Cipola: «Helpless people or well intentioned one, who And: «Intelligent people The book of Cipolla is the best about stupidity....50 pages...Free to read.... 😁😊
I will add some intelligent " bandits" become stupid by themselves with time because their goal makes them blinds to others goal, and at the end make them "stupid" in spite of their apparently working brain... This is the case of political leaders in declining civilization and political empires... They paint themselves in a corner BECAUSE of the way their intelligence focus ONLY on their short term interest...
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It's all very well saying that all prices are rising. That is broadly true. However the audio industry was merrily hiking prices when inflation wasn't a factor at all. So what you have now is a situation where prices are indeed ridiculous. The industry only has itself to blame if the momentum from Covid is completely lost. |
@bdp24 Was it really Mark Levinson who started charging these ridiculous prices for Preamps, Amps and DACS ? It’s too bad because all this nice equipment from Dan Dagostino, Boulder, and even some Pass Labs is only attainable if you take out a second Mortage. |
not really -- at least for pass -- their first watt amps are relatively affordable and even a pass xa25 is a $3500 amp used, as is an int150 which is also just superb |
