Has a Power Conditioner Improved Your Sound?

@v-fi

In a way I’m not looking forward to evaluating power conditioners. After trying the PS Audio regenerator and AudioQuest 707 I know it takes time to try out the units and may depend on the quality of your power at the time of the test. I just can’t stand anything that takes air, atmosphere and openness out of the system via the filtering which is what my two previous test units did as well as move the soundstage forward. That’s a big no- no for me. I think I’ll probably try some of the Shunyata units as they always seem very popular with owners.

It's tough to say whether a power conditioner will make an impact in a different system, and if so how big that impact might be. Over the years I've lived in several homes and each one reacted differently to power conditioners - in some cases it made a drastic improvement, in other cases little or no difference.

Beyond that, I've even had different houses which reacted better to different types of power conditioning. One home did best with regenerated power (I used PurePower but PS Audio made conceptually similar models at the time), another liked the more straight forward filtering types (Audience, Puritan Labs), and my current home favors balanced power (Bryston, Furman, Equitech). 

Unfortunately that means the answer likely involves trying things for yourself and seeing what works in your home. 

@jfrmusic 

Thank you for the update. I willl check out the cable thread and look forward to your findings on Stack Audio. Among other things, their isolation footers caught my attention. It’s ok to wait on PC but know this, clean power is fundamental to your audio system optimal performance. 

@lalitk

Since the weather is no longer stuck in the 90s my system has sound wonderful. Plus I believe all my new components are now settling in. So I decided to turn my focus to upgrading my XLR Interconnects and Speaker cables. Check my thread on my audition of DH Labs vs Shunyata. I love what the DH Labs have done to my system

Also trying the several Stack Audio products. I plan to report on a my experiences on a future thread. So for now I’ve put power conditioning on the back burner.

@jfrmusic 

Any further update on your experience with Power Conditioners? 

I had a PS Audio- MEH

Love my Core Power 1800 - their newest is quite reasonably priced

@pmiller115 

”The funny/frustrating thing about this hobby is that one day we can interpret a change in the sound of our system as an improvement and by the next day we may change our mind and determine the opposite”, you sure hit it on the nail head. Hearing things differently does not necessarily mean better. What matters the most is if that difference = a perceived benefit to sound for the individual. 

I have used an Audience power conditioner for years. I have had the unit updated when updates were available, etc. I recently went through some equipment changes and ended up partially by-passing the conditioner. To my complete surprise I now prefer bypassing the conditioner since I believe what I may have originally thought improved the sound may in fact have restricted it in some way. Since I don't want to go without surge protection I am now in the process of seeking to have a "whole house" surge protector installed. The funny/frustrating thing about this hobby is that one day we can interpret a change in the sound of our system as an improvement and by the next day we may change our mind and determine the opposite. That in part is what keeps this hobby good for the economy.

Years ago all I used was a $120 APC and thought that this would clean up the sound but I was dead wrong. Bought a couple of Isoteks that were recommended by others and these were a wise choice for the buck. The Aquarius for my #1 system and the Polaris for my second system have made the light passages and overall sound pristine. Yes, they do make a difference in my opinion. There are more expensive line conditioners but Isotek is a good value .

I have the iFi Power Station (actually I have two) that @lalitk mentioned earlier in the thread. My power amp is still plugged directly into the wall, but everything else runs through these. I have been very impressed. In my home, these obviously helped with some power noise issues and presented a much quieter background and helped to open up the entire soundstage quite a bit. They didn’t subtract from the sound at all. Of course power issues will vary considerably by environment, but I have really enjoyed these in my system.

@mbmi What do you use for surge protection with your Ansuz Mains 8?  Thanks

Best piece I ever added to my system to upgrade the SQ quite noticeably was the ANSUZ Mains 8. Took my system to a whole new level. Highly recommended!

No, but a dedicated power line from main panel with its own true earth ground and upgraded AC socket sure did! 

I tried a Running Springs Hayley 15 years ago and was shocked at the noise floor and separation of instruments. It was one of the best purchases I had ever made. Few years later bought the Running Springs Dmitri and have had it ever since. I wouldn’t be without it. I thought of trying new stuff but never have. Still have the Hayley in another system. The RS is passive and has no protection. 

For anyone who thinks the Denali V2 might veil the top end, I can assure you, in my three systems, the effect was exactly the opposite.  It made things sparkle.  And as to price of power conditioner to price of system, in my experience, the Denali makes MORE of a difference in less expensive systems.  I think super nice equipment does a better job of dealing with noise in the power line.  Just my thoughts, from my experience.

@jfrmusic

Go to Audiogon sales website and click message icon next to 🔔 icon. 

@lalitk 

Where do I find a PM?

@jfrmusic 

I sent you a PM about GTO. I have been using e-TP80 and e-TP60 with my other audio systems in the house for over 15 plus years. My main audio room has GTX-D (R) receptacles and pair of NCF Clear Line Filters. 

@lalitk 

Considering the Furtech

GTO-D2 or D3 as I only need 4 receptacles

or the

e-TP609 NCF which has 8 receptacles and very similar to the above except the enclosure. 
 

Do you have any experience with these?

Over the past 40 years or so, some have and some haven't improved the sound quality.

The most obvious difference has always been in my recording and production studio vs my consumer stereo systems.

I'm currently using Puritan Audio products across the board with excellent results.

“I returned the 707”

@jfrmusic 

I may sound like a broken record, your high resolution system deserves a power conditioner that further lowers the AC noise without stripping away the dynamics and other virtues. Between Shunyata and Furutech, my money is on one of the passive Furutech power distributor, install it and get back to enjoying music. 

@ghdprentice 

Thanks but I don’t want a heavy  PC. And I’m not sure I want an active one. Both Shunyata and Furutech offer a smaller and lighter passive PC. So I may try one of those next. 

@jfrmusic 

Great feedback. Thank you. 

@audioquest4life 

Tbe 707 will be fine for Home Theater. In fact its characteristics are more suitable to that application. A vivid, warmer up front presentation is excellent for movies. Remember it does provide surge protection, excessive voltage protection and lowers the noise floor. 

@jfrmusic 

Interesting turn of events. I am sure you were able to discern these traits of the conditioner by carefully listening. 
 

Now, I am wondering if the 707 will be a good fit for my home theater. It’s going to be the power conditioner for the AV rack. These will be connected to it:

1. McIntosh 7 channel theater amp

2. McIntosh 4 channel theater amp

3. McIntosh 2 channel theater amp

4. Marantz AV10 AV PRE/pro

5. Oppo 205 Blu-ray 

6. Amazon TV

7. Apple TV

8. Luxul Media switch 

9. maybe: Kaleidoscape

Thank you for the update. Such is high end audio. It is really easy to like something at first only to realize something other aspect is amiss. I will admit that the 707 was a very budget oriented power conditioner. I looked at it and thought if the one I have in the bedroom with TV and good quality sound bar goes out I might get one,

I would look much farther up at Isotech or Shunyata. I’ve got a good quality 75 pound power conditioner I have had for over twenty years and each time I swap it out or compare it still is doing a great job.

Update

Sorry to say I returned the 707. After a week of concentrated listening I realized that what first appealed to me was actually an increase in midrange energy. It is a vivid presentation that in a way is more tube like. Everything is warmer, fuller and somewhat closer in perspective. This is a valid and euphonic sound. However in the end it's not a perspective that over time I found to my liking. It's most noticeable with Classical recordings. With the 707 I'm sitting in the first 5 rows. Without the 707 and plugged into the wall I'm siting in rows 10 to 15. I prefer that more set back perspective. You may like what the 707 does and it does do its job. The overall sound was slightly quieter but with the effect of a warmer midrange. Bass is slightly fuller and Strings more forward although still refined. So basically less air or atmosphere in the sound.

I'm not sure what I will do next. I've re-read a number of Power Conditioner reviews and it seems that the reviewers often mention that the lower treble can be more vivid or forward etc. So this may be a common trait of active conditioners. I haven't noticed this mentioned on the few passive conditioner reviews I've read. This included Shunyata and Furutech. In fact a review of one of the Shunyata PCs said the perspective was more distant. So maybe I will try one of those. But again I do not notice any apparent noise issues with my system but as I mentioned you don't notice it until it's removed.

Plixir Power products are quite fantastic. There are the Linear DC Power Supplies and the AC power conditioners in the lineup. James Soh in Singapore has just revamped and improved almost all products that he produces. Plixir products are available in Canada and the US market from the Canadian Distributor.

Proof? What do you offer other than empty assertion?

The only thing a power conditioner might do is introduce noise. They do not improve sound. Put down the snake oil someone is trying to feed you. 

I've got three dedicated lines coming into my audio room on a rock-solid power grid (we share the grid with the county's emergency services).  I thought power solutions never offered much improvement in my system (Fleetwood DeVille, Backert Labs Preamp, McGary amp, Merason DAC).  That is until I demoed the Puritan PSM1512 (12-outlet version of the PSM156).

I was stunned at the difference.  Everything was clearer and better delineated.  The pace seemed to pick up and the sound seemed more "alive".  The sound stage was wider and deeper.  Honestly, I was stunned.  

In my other system (Volti, AGD, Technics, HiFi Rose) I swapped the Puritan in for my IsoTek EVO3 Aquarius (both using a Transparent Premium PC), and again, the difference was pretty staggering (and really obvious).  I would attempt to demo a Puritan before you commit to anything else.  It's by far the best that I've ever heard in any of my systems over the years, (but, to be fair, I'm not auditioning $10K power line solutions).

@terry9

From your quote…”It took the ‘ sparkle ‘ out of the sound .”

Yes, it can be. I went through a period about thirty years ago when upgrading some modest components and adding / evaluating high quality interconnects and power conditioning that each step I took reduced the “treble”… sizzle… until I was freaked out that my whole system had gone over to the too warm side. I was confused since in most respects it sounded much better.

I started going out and listening to unamplified cymbals and pianos… and was shocked to find that what I had thought was great treble was in fact high frequency hash and distortion. Cymbles when struck sound like brass not tsssssss. I realized all those loud amplified concerts and cheap loud stereos in the 70’s had trained me to believe that is how music sounded. Surveying real music it was easy to stop craving the tsssss. I realized how beautiful undistorted instruments / music sounds. You know, once you hear you cannot unhear it. My systems then got better more quickly and my partner (a female) no longer minded listening to my system any more… since the high frequency hash and distortion hurt her ears.

Often after that I would go into a showroom and go running out with my hands over my ears. The piercing distortion is often completely missed by folks so focused on detail and slam they just don’t seem to hear it. 

I live in British Columbia, Canada and our electricity is generated entirely by hydroelectric dams. BC Hydro produces electricity that is 98% clean.

I also live in a large city, so we don't get power outages, power spikes, lightening strikes or brown outs.

Despite this, I still use power conditioners because I need 14 outlets and I've just always used a power conditioner.

Am I an idiot?

( That's a rhetorical question. )

@thelonious527   When installed in my system it seem to roll off the top end. It took the ‘ sparkle ‘ out of the sound .

I wonder if that's not the same effect which I have been observing these last 20 years - every time I make a major upgrade, some 'sparkle' goes out of the top end. I've come to realize that this is high frequency distortion. This has lead me to value 'smoothness' over sparkle or other tinsel. YMMV

This may be what @ghdprentice is referring to.

By 'major upgrade' I mean air bearing turntable, air gap phono stage, etc.

@jfrmusic

Perhaps you misunderstood my last post. It’s not about spending 4 to 5 times. It’s about finding the right component that offers no compromises given so much riding on it. In my experience, a passive power conditioner like iFi or Furutech would have yielded better performance with everything plugged into it. Check out the link for iFi with return privileges. If I were in your shoes, I would have ordered this combination to compare against 707. In my opinion, AQ707 is not the best choice for your system. I am using a $2800 PC that’s powering a system well north of $100K.

https://a.co/d/6nop3JQ

Lalitk, you are so correct. Getting foundational stuff correct makes everything in the system perform its best, but it is very unglamorous. It's like getting underwear and socks for your birthday instead of a new bike! I am learning that power, isolation, room accoustics, cables, tube rolling, very non-sexy stuff is transforming my system into a much more engaging and rewarding sound. Buying expensive large components is way more fun, but without integrating each component with the rest you don't get the full benefit of your investment. A couple of years ago I bought a used Vivaldi Stack. This was the most expensive investment I had made in this hobby. After I wired the money the broker suggested that the previous owner would sell me his Nordost loom for a super low price of 47K. I'm sure they would have sounded great, but I was out of my lane. I could afford to buy the component, but I didn't have the money to integrate it. I sold the stack and went with a much simpler approach that I could afford to optimize.

Power conditioner helps, but you have to wait until it’s burn in and acclimate with your system. Find the right power cable to match your system.

@lalitk 

I understand your comment about not going all in on a PC. However the audio quest 707 has been a great improvement to my sound at a reasonable price. Spending 4 or 5 times more may offer additional performance but the law of diminishing returns had me skeptical on how much. I believe I have clean power into my newer home and while I don't have a true direct line there is nothing else connected to the line other than my system. So right now I'm good and enjoying the music.

Good posts by @wokeuptobose and @fastfreight and thank you for sharing your experiences. I can’t help wondering @jfrmusic decision to go with a entry level power conditioner given rest of his system.

IMHO, a component such as power conditioner which serves as a foundation of your system, should be uncompromising in every conceivable way.

Hello, I have been + / - on power conditioners for years.  I now have three systems; two in my home and one in a vacation home, of decreasing cost and resolution.  My mountain home has big power outages and storms, and I had a very old Panamax unit that I was keen on upgrading.  So after reading a lot and seeing the Denali V2 at 20% off new at Music Direct (about the same price as used units, and most were selling their original Denalis to purchase the new V2) I bought one.  Since I had it delivered to my home, I decided to try it in each of my systems.  I had read all about the noise reduction, and like others, having dedicated lines at my home and fairly nice equipment, I was a 'plug into the wall guy'.

So first system #2 with MM Makua , onboard Tambaqui DAC, Audionet Max amps, Grimm MU1 streamer and Revel Salon 2 speakers:  I kept the amps into the wall and everything else into the Denali V2.  Wow.  Things sounded clearer top to bottom, more defined, more air and space. More dynamic, more resolution.  Brighter but not etched.  My wife perked right up hearing the difference.

So then downstairs to system #1 with Audionet Stern and Heisenbergs, MM Tambaqui, and YG Hailey 2 speakers.  This system is extremely resolving and I sit closer.  The Denali was again easily noticeable, but not to my liking.  This system did not need anything more clear or defined.  It was a bit much.  I went back to my dedicated lines and it relaxed into what I better liked. Maybe the dedicated lines here are 'cleaner', but I think it shows it is very system and resolution dependent.

Comparing, the Revel Salon 2's are much more laid back than the YG Haileys.  The Mola Mola preamp, is not quite as neutral as the Audionet Stern.

Finally I took it to the Lake house and I loved its effect immediately on this system. Here I plugged my Soulnote Integrated A2, and Auralic Altair streamer / DAC  into the Denali.  It sounds better and I appreciate the safety of the high end non sacrificial breaker.

I am using a Shunyata Sigma V2 HC with the Denali V2 here, and now have gotten a second Denali V2 for system #2 at home, using a Kubala Sosna Elation 20a power cord.   Both sound fantastic.

Even with my Everest I ended up plugging my two amp plugs into two each dedicated circuits/wall sockets. When the 30 amp version of the Shunyata Typhon 2 came out I tried first one then two Typhon 2s with the 30 amp umbilical cord to each amp cord, and my other components plugged into the other sockets provided on each back panel of the Thyphon 2. These two Typhon 2s feeding my Gryphon EVO has opened up the amp sound and removed any sibilence in tone. I didn't believe a 195 pound Class A dual mono amp could sound that much better with any form of power conditioning. Running two Typhon 2s, two AQ Dragons and two Swiss Digital Fuses with Graphene sluggos is not a thrifty approach, but once heard I can't be without. It's so much money I wondered if if would have made more sense to put that money in an amp upgrade, but I truely love the Gryphon EVO musical sound.

I would love to be able to try all these different products mentioned here, but I haven't so I can't compare them to my system. That said, I am sure many of them would work in different systems. My advice if you are on the power conditioner sidelines is to get a trial on the most expensive unit you can afford. If it works in your system you are going to want more of the good stuff it provides. I came to power conditioning very reluctantly. I had a hard time hearing much value in entry level cords($500)  and power conditioning products($3000). I then started moving up the product lines which was expensive and time consuming, but I love the way my system sounds now.

@jfrmusic 

Thank you for the response. The fact that Audioquest invested in a heavy duty power cord specifically made for the 707 is a testament to their commitment on building synergy for their products. I had the same experience with Bryston 4BSSTs amps. The power cable that came with those amps were quite heavy duty. 

Update:

The user guide suggested trying components into different bansk to find the best connection compatibility and combination. So even though everything sounded great I decided to try it. 

First I tried the Amp into the High Current Bank. Didn't like that. Sound was not as dynamic or clear so the amp went bank into the wall.

Then I tried all line level components into the High Current bank. There was actually some improvement to the calmness of the presentation but a loss of impact and imaging.

After trying various combinations I found the best was:

The Analog Power supply for my DAC plugged into the third Filtered Bank.

The Digital Power supply for my DAC and the Network Switch plugged into the second Filtered Bank.

The Streamer plugged into the High Current Bank.

This slightly improved the overall presentation from my initial set of connections listed in my review. It provided an even more laid back, calm presentation without impacting the imaging that was so compelling when I first tested the PC.

So now each of my components are now entirely discrete from each other and it appears that the Streamer plays better with the higher current and not as much noise filtering. The High Current bank is not as heavily filtered.

So if you get a PC experiment with the various banks until you find the best combination. It sounded good in all permutations but the final one was clearly the best.

@audioquest4life

The supplied cable is very heavy duty. It's one of AudioQuest's specifically designed for their PCs. I saw a YouTube review where the person tried an expensive AudioQuest power cable with the 707and while there was some additional measured noise reduction he wasn't sure he could hear any sound difference. So at this point I'm not planning on a cable upgrade but maybe. Actually I'd like a locking power cable. If you are moving the unit around to swap connections it's easy for the power cable to come out. As to other brands of cable AudioQuest recommends a directional cable from their line. Not sure the implications. I would check with them before using another brand

@jfmusic,

Glad you are getting good results with the 707. I will be using a 707 as part of my home theater build. The only thing I wish it had was remote power on, as all of my AV equipment will be plugged into it. That’s not a big hindrance to getting my AV system put together. 
 

It seems as if the 707 is a decent conditioner/surge protector. Is the included power cord pretty good? Would you use other Audioquest power cords or other brands for your equipment plugged into the 707? I was leaning towards either Audio Art, Shunyata, or Neotech.

“So since my system is dead silent I’m not yet connected any power conditioner will add enough to justify the cost or worse degrade the sound.”

@jfrmusic

I guess, you have an answer to your earlier query. For now, enjoy 707 until you’re ready to step up or try something else. Great outcome! 

Received my Audioquest PowerQuest 707 Power Conditioner yesterday.

Bottom line: I'm keeping it. It significantly improved the overall presentation.

Before installing the 707 my system sounded wonderful and I had no complaints. As to noise: None I could hear even with my ear against the speaker. However I read many reviews where others had a similar situation and yet found an improvement with a PC. I think the more resolving the system the more potential benefit there is with a PC. Especially with Digital components. Noise is Kryptonite to Digital. Maybe analog components such as Turntables and Phone preamps may not benefit as much. But if you have any type of decent setup you should notice an improvement especially if your power is dirty or there is a lot of Wifi, EMF, etc.  And remember nearby Solar panels,WiFi and mobile phones and towers can introduce noise not present on the line.

As background my system consists of:

Accuphase P4600 Power Amp

Aurender N20 Streamer

MSB Discrete DAC

Harbeth C7ES-XD Speakers

I chose the 707 because It looks like the sweet spot in the AudioQuest range. It's the top of the PowerQuest line before the Niagra line. Its specs are very similar to the Niagra 1200 plus it includes a heavy duty AudioQuest Power Cable. It reduces both Common mode and Differential noise. It has non-sacrificial surge protection, extreme voltage monitoring and shutdown and Transient Power Correction that offers 45 Amps of transient reserve power for the High Current outlets designed for power amps and sub woofers. That last feature is not included in the 1200 which is $300 more and doesn't include a cable. The unit has 12 outlets:8 for line components and 4 high current for amps. So for $1295 it was a reasonable price and why I decided to try it. So how did it perform?

My system was extremely quiet with no perceived noise but with the PC it added another level of blackness to the background. That allowed minor details in the recordings that I never noticed before to be heard. 

The soundstage width and depth were unchanged however the instruments and instrument groupings in the image became more defined. They are more in focus with no smearing between images so imaging was noticeably improved.

The upper frequencies especially strings are more silken and refined. I thought they were that way before adding the PC but after they became even more relaxed and natural.

The overall presentation is more calm, relaxed. Large orchestral climaxes are reproduced without strain, harshness or over brightness in strings and brass.

As a result I found in my many reference tracks I could increase volume 2-3db with no sign of effort.

And of course there is surge and extreme voltage protection.

In my setup I connected my digital sources: Streamer, Network Switch and the Digital power supply of my DAC to the first line bank. Each bank is isolated from each other. I connected the Analog power supply from the DAC to the second line bank. I left the High Current bank empty. At some point I'll try my amp plugged into the PC. For now it remains into the wall. And Accuphase strongly recommends using the wall only.

So overall it's a worthwhile improvement and one that is a bargain considering the impact it has made to my system. I'm sure I could get some additional improvement by moving up to the Niagra 3000 but that is $3900. If I was definitely going to connect the amp to a PC I would consider that as the reserve power is even higher.

As to the noise issue. I appears there is noise that is not readily noticeable until you remove it. Even with good power coming from the wall there are improvements that can be found and I suspect non-line generated noise is present all around us and has subtle effects on the sound.

I will post this review on a new thread as a 707 review for those looking for a PC.

Another vote for the Puritan Labs 156.  I used the Furman reference 15i before that and I could hear a slight transformer buzz if you put your ear almost on the case.  The Puritan is quieter and using the Entech rf noise sniffer it is more effective than the Furman.  I use it for spike protection and everything is plugged into it including my amps. 

Puritan Labs 156 works well.  Cheers

I have owned the Plixar BAC 3000 for 5 years and recently added a second so I can have one for two power amps, two subs and another for my preamp, phono stage, DAC, transport & streamer. These are balanced 3000 watt toroidal transformers. You should check them out. Not sure if they are available in the US. They are designed and manufactured by James Soh at Soundaffairs in Singapore. Great addition in my opinion. Each unit weighs 40 kgs. so a very large transformer. 

I like the Transparent power isolator which apparently gets rid of all the magnetic interference without restraining power.  And it has what appears to be a very good hydraulic designed surge protector.

It weighs like a lead block which to me indicates something good.  And it's visually appealing which is kind of helpful.

Cost around $6000 and comes with a really nice power cord.  

Very important to spend a lot of money so you feel better.